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Old 01-23-2016, 08:01 PM   #21
Leo656
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Well, when Superman Returns (and more specifically, the Richard Donner Cut of Superman II) were released, the comics started tweaking everything Krypton-related in the mythology so that it resembled Donner's "Giant Ice Chandelier" version, and Superman briefly had an S-shield belt buckle like in "Returns". But it didn't really take, partly because the Superman comics and movies have never had anything in common anyways. It was a superficial change that went away very quickly.

And they also made Batman's costume black after the movie did it, but that took a couple years, and, again, wasn't permanent.

Huh. Yeah, DC really hasn't ever made a huge deal about the comics resembling the movies. They try it sometimes for like two months and then just stop. Comic readers, historically, don't respond to it, usually because they specifically prefer the comics over the other media and resent things from the movies/TV shows being awkwardly forced in.
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:33 PM   #22
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I know Batman will largely go untouched (like when New 52 launched), but they need to go back to Jason Todd being dead and Damian being gone entirely. Bringing Damian back to life and giving him super powers was the dumbest thing I've seen in some time. Two dead Robin's coming back to life, can you be more creatively bankrupt?

Go back to the Nightwing and Tim Drake scenario. As for Barbara I'm conflicted because I like her as Batgirl but wouldn't mind her being Oracle again either.
Dick Grayson died and came back, too. Three Robins.

Stephanie Brown died and came back as well. FOUR Robins.
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:35 PM   #23
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Stephanie wasn't really dead, though, she faked it (in a bad retcon, but still).

As for Grayson, I can't stress enough that nothing from New 52 counts in any meaningful discussion. If even 1% of it is still being referenced as canon in 10 years, then fine, we can start maybe acknowledging some of it. Until then it's nothing but a rancid abortion.
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Old 01-23-2016, 11:38 PM   #24
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How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.
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Old 01-23-2016, 11:48 PM   #25
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How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.
You are correct. He traded the Spyral spy agency for membership in the Court of the Owls. DC has not know how to write Dick Grayson. Nothing ever sticks with the character that has the greatest potential in its stable of characters.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...in-robin-war-2
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:02 AM   #26
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The problem is, the only natural progression left for Grayson is to become Batman, and to do that, Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and they won't ever do that "for reals". It's frustrating, in that Grayson is a "legacy character" two times over, who has outgrown his prior legacy entirely (Robin) but can't fully grow into his other destined role (Batman) because the rule of comics says that the status quo must always be maintained, which means Bruce is never going away for any real amount of time, so Dick will never really get to replace him.

I liked the little experiment they tried with it a few years ago, but for one thing, it was too short, and secondly, it should have been Dick and Tim as Batman and Robin, not Dick and Damien, as Damien should never have existed in the first place. I was really looking forward to seeing Dick and Tim as Batman and Robin, as it was the next logical step for everything involving those characters, and with the two being step-brothers (as well as Dick seeing Tim as an equal, whereas Bruce has never seen any of his partners as equals) it would have given the Batman/Robin partnership a fresh new dynamic. Instead they did what they did instead and it was underwhelming. They had to rush Bruce back into the picture because of sales panic, and forced Damien into it because... I'll never understand why. Either way, good set-up, flat execution.

But yeah, since they don't know what to do with Grayson, they keep trying to just kill him or sideline him. Or just write him completely out of character to justify whatever new "role" they want him to fill. It's frustrating.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:26 AM   #27
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Hopefully Superman gets his undies back along with the traditional costume.
I also hope John Romita Jr is rebooted, or just simply booted from the book.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:52 PM   #28
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How did Dick die recently? I thought he only faked his own death, but he didn't actually die.
To everyone except Bruce, he was dead for close to 2 years, I think.

Funny thought: the New 52 Reboot is INCREDIBLY SEXIST. Think about it... of Batman's extended family of sidekicks, there are four guys and four girls:

Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne
Barbara Gordon, Helena Bertinelli, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown

The four guys survived with most of their preNu52 histories intact--but the girls? Not at all. Pretty much wiped clean and turned into blank slates.

Because apparently you can fit four Robins into five years, but four Batgirls? Hell no.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:26 PM   #29
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I was hoping this thread meat that they were going back to pre-flashpoint with the old number system. I'm bummed I can't own a copy of Action Comics #1000.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:31 PM   #30
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Try New 52 Birds of Prey. Starling was an amazing character I think you'd like...
So I can get into it right before it's completely rebooted...again?
Nah, I'm good.

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Not to the extant Marvel does.

Let's take a look over some of the "creative" decisions that have been made over Marvel thanks to the films. Nick Fury being replaced by Nick Fury Jr. who just happens to look like Samuel Jackson, Scarlett Witch and Quicksiliver no longer mutants, the sudden focus on the Inhumans, etc. See where I'm going with this?

I can't recall the last DC character whose backstory and characterization was heavily modified to match up with either their cinematic or television counterpart.
That's probably because with the exception of Batman....DC movies haven't been as widely received as Marvel's have been.

Nick Fury being Sam Jackson was something that was suggested in the Marvel Ultimate Universe before Sam Jackson played Fury in the MCU.

But yeah, I'll never get why the Big Two just don't embrace movie tie in comics, rather than reshaping their entire continuity to reflect movie changes.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:59 PM   #31
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They should just make series set in the movie-verse like they do with TV shows.

They made Smallvile Season 11 in comics, and now there's a Supergirl comic based on the TV show. It says a lot that we have a comic based on a TV show based on a comic.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:07 PM   #32
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Wait, Dick "died"? Even if he faked it if the whole DCU thought that for two years it would still be a huge shock everywhere. I always thought they would save his death for a Crisis event. He is probably the most connected person in the entire DCU, he is literally an ally of everyone there his death would really have a bigger impact than Batman's death since unlike Bruce he isn't a recluse and only Superman's death would be more shocking to the DCU.


This relaunch if it brings back things to the old DC it would be good but I don't see that happening, if it "mixes" the timelines a bit it would be good. DC and Marvel have had hard and soft-reboots forever, I don't see how this is a big deal anymore. And DC isn't stupid to not go back to their old numbering systems for their big issues like AC#1,000.

Comics have and will always be a mess so to me the best way to follow DC or Marvel is to read story arcs you're interested in and catch up on the backstory through wikis. You can read as much as you want and that's it you only enjoy stuff and don't have to worry about the mess that it really is.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:09 PM   #33
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So I can get into it right before it's completely rebooted...again?
Nah, I'm good.
Oh, it's even better than that! You can get into it for... twenty issues, I think, before editorial and writer changes shaft the character. I think the New 52 run went through 4 major creative changes before it ended? Maybe 5? It was glorious. Only redeeming feature was Starling.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:46 PM   #34
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DC's Bat-Books doing well in the BC bestsellers list

1. Batman #48
2. Star Wars #15
3. Deadpool #6
4. Uncanny X-Men #2
5. Harley Quinn #24
6. Batman & Robin Eternal #16
7. New Avengers #5
8. Uncanny Inhumans #4
9. I Hate Fairyland #4
10. Poison Ivy #1


Scott Synder in the meantime has tweeted a bit about his impending departure from the main Bat-book

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/...-scott-snyder/


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Wait, Dick "died"? Even if he faked it if the whole DCU thought that for two years it would still be a huge shock everywhere. I always thought they would save his death for a Crisis event..
That actually almost happened in Infinite Crisis. Didio wanted Dick dead (which is why he and Babs were allowed to be engaged at the time, knowing they were going to deny them a happy ending) but the writers fought him on it and finally, because the Superboy lawsuit was going on, it was settled on Connor dying instead. Dick was spared, his engagement to Babs was called off, and he had the stint as Batman (the pre-flashpoint versions would eventually get married in Convergence)
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:12 PM   #35
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I didn't know Dick died. What issue did that happen in?
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:32 PM   #36
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I didn't know Dick died. What issue did that happen in?
He did'nt die. He faked his death after he was publicly unmasked in "Forever Evil" and worked as an agent for Spiral. He's since come out and revealed he's alive to all his friends.
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
DC's Bat-Books doing well in the BC bestsellers list

1. Batman #48
2. Star Wars #15
3. Deadpool #6
4. Uncanny X-Men #2
5. Harley Quinn #24
6. Batman & Robin Eternal #16
7. New Avengers #5
8. Uncanny Inhumans #4
9. I Hate Fairyland #4
10. Poison Ivy #1


Scott Synder in the meantime has tweeted a bit about his impending departure from the main Bat-book

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/...-scott-snyder/




That actually almost happened in Infinite Crisis. Didio wanted Dick dead (which is why he and Babs were allowed to be engaged at the time, knowing they were going to deny them a happy ending) but the writers fought him on it and finally, because the Superboy lawsuit was going on, it was settled on Connor dying instead. Dick was spared, his engagement to Babs was called off, and he had the stint as Batman (the pre-flashpoint versions would eventually get married in Convergence)
Yes, that ticks me off. Dan specifically told me who his least favorite characters were at a DC Nations panel. Who are they? Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Ted Kord, and Michael Carter. The first two are my two personal favorites and the latter two are my younger siblings'. So my family has a grudge against the know nothing. Dick, he claimed was nothing more than repetitive. What the bloody heck is Jason Todd? The poster boy of that from his conception in the DC office in December '82, not to mention since reviving the character he has had less direction than Dick who at the very least has had consistent characterization (ignoring the wrost run ever aka Bruce Jones seven issues). Sorry, I get passionate about my favorite DC Comics character. Besides, Leo is correct. He needs to become Batman like Wally became The Flash. Its the final step for the character and 76 years in its time, but it cant happen. Make Dick 12 year old in a reboot or make him Batman with Bruce an Oracle-like figure and mayor of Gotham.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:25 PM   #38
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Every time DiDio opens his mouth, you realize he's the single worst thing to happen to comics, period, in decades. From romanticizing heroes who kill over heroes who won't, turning those that won't INTO killers, having people like Batman who would NEVER tolerate murderers as partners or even associates suddenly be all chummy with psychopaths like Jason and Damien, turning "free-spirited" female characters like Starfire into full-blown sluts, killing off much-beloved secondary characters so that heroic characters can now have "dark, tragic" backstories...

The guy's a f*cking idiot. Could be because his background is in TV and not writing comics, TV writing is like the single lowest common denominator for "shock value" storylines and otherwise flat-out trash. It's no surprise to me someone that functionally-retarded could fail upwards in that industry, enough to gain a foothold in a "less demanding" medium like comic books.

DC under Levitz had definitely become a meandering, aimless mess from around 1999-2002, what with the complete lack of continuity between books (even those starring the same character), no direction to speak of, and flat-out boring stories with awful art... so yeah, the first two years of DiDio's run on top were a breath of fresh air by comparison, sure. I admit, the guy even had me fooled. But everything the guy has championed post-Infinite Crisis and 52 has been a DISASTER. The "Sales First, Story Second" approach to running DC has NOT worked.

The only time in its history that DC has ever shined, was when Mike Carlin and Denny O'Neil were running most of it. And those years were GLORIOUS. Mark my words, no amount of retcons and relaunches will EVER bring DC back to the heights they hit from 1986 to 1996. I mean, I called it way back in the late 90s when they fired Dan Jurgens off the Superman books, despite being one of exactly four people who actually know how to write Superman, and possibly THE best Superman writer in history. Why fire him? "Eh, time for a change." That was the very first awful decision DC Editorial made and it was all downhill from there.

The upside is, even if I focus strictly on collecting and reading DC from 1986 through Flashpoint, that'll still take the rest of my life and I never have to pay attention to this new garbage.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:40 PM   #39
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The only time in its history that DC has ever shined, was when Mike Carlin and Denny O'Neil were running most of it. And those years were GLORIOUS. Mark my words, no amount of retcons and relaunches will EVER bring DC back to the heights they hit from 1986 to 1996.
For all the criticism '90s comics get (and much of it richly deserved), I still have a huge love for '90s DC and have found a larger appreciation for it in a lot of ways. Even when they did their big "extreme replacement" stunts with Batman and Superman, there was a satirical point to them, where the purpose of the storyline showed that the trendy "edgy and violent" replacements were inferior in every way to the icons they'd sidelined. They found a clever way to cash in on market trends while reinforcing the strengths of their classic characters within the narrative.

But so many of the characters and runs back then are still so important to me. Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo on The Flash. Waid and Humberto Ramos' Impulse. Chuck Dixon's Robin series with Tim Drake. Dixon and Scott McDaniel on Nightwing. Peter David and Todd Nauck's Young Justice. Dan Jurgens on Superman, absolutely. And I can't vouch for the run as a whole as I haven't re-read it, but I'll argue for Kyle Rayner being a better main character for the concept of Green Lantern than Hal Jordan was/is, any day of the week. And it's more of a late-'80s into the early-'90s run, but Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle on Batman is all-time definitive to me.

...I could easily go on. Meanwhile, I don't think I could stand by even that many DC books in the past 5-10 years.
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:59 PM   #40
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I like 90s comics.
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