Rise Official Episode Discussion S2 EP12 & EP13

[Leofan26]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I had you in mind when I read the spoilers. I knew this show was going to make "Leo becoming the leader" non-meaningful. I called it!

Are you happy with how things went than?

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Nothing dumb about it. Blatant woke box-ticking. And what a surprise, the show's now broke.

Yeah, race-flipping and gender-flipping is 100% pandering garbage. Shouldn't be tolerated, let alone celebrated.

They made the white chick a black chick and made the dude into a chick... all so that when the show failed, they'd have a card to pull out of their pocket and say "Y'all are just bigoted!"

That's what they call you when you're just plain allergic to dumb ideas. "Bigoted". A tidy little catch-all defense that forever shields you from any and all criticism and makes people dismiss your dissenting opinion by default, because after all, "Who'd side with a bigot?"

The Checklist needs to f*cking go.

[neatoman]

Well... First they make Karai Shredder's adopted daughter, then they made her his biological (X-whatever great) granddaughter, then they made her Splinter's biologicial daughter while keeping the Shredder's adopted daughter thing, now we have Shredder as her biological father and her as Splinter's biological grandmother.

Gee, what's next? Making Casey Karai's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate?

[Sonic777]

Just finished watching this on Itunes.

Wow, I mean this was exciting.

Tad rushed on some reveals but still, I enjoyed how it all turned out.
Hoon Lee returns now as the Shredder's voice. The irony. But I will say he has a set of pipes on him with all the screaming he did.

Guess my prediction of Foot Recruit being Angel was wrong.
Noticed a lot of Gurren Lagann references, even when Shredder pretty much resembled the Anti-Spiral at the end.

Would have been nice to see a somewhat epilogue of all the characters. Like having Splinter meeting Big Mama one last time. Maybe hugin and munin reuniting with Draxum. Perhaps Foot Recruit (Casey) joins a hockey league and starting a new life.

Also, I got some flashbacks to IDW's "Secret History of the Foot Clan" when they mentioned the Oni pretty much resembled a Utrom that oroku made a deal with.

But I will say this has been a fun ride. Compared to the other three animated series, it's the weakest to me but I still had some fun watching this show.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well... First they make Karai Shredder's adopted daughter, then they made her his biological (X-whatever great) grandfather, then they made her Splinter's biologicial daughter while keeping the Shredder's adopted daughter thing, now we have Shredder as her biological father and her as Splinter's biological grandmother.

Gee, what's next? Making Casey Karai's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate?

BUT BRO IT'S SO DIFFERENT! You're just not considering how New and Different it all is because the Different Newness of it all is so overwhelming to you on account of your brain is hardwired against such New and Different things!

It's like you get used to eating steak every night. But one day, you want something different, so instead of steak, you eat fingernails! And it's GREAT, because at least it's f*cking Different, bro!!!

I mean, you never saw any of it it coming, right? Sooooo subversive! Like ordering a pizza and the guy walks up and hits you in the face with a rubber chicken. It's even BETTER than the pizza because bro, you totally were NOT expecting that!

You just don't like change, that's all that is. You're so in love with FW that you can't handle anything that isn't that! That's literally the only reason anyone could ever hate this show, bro. You just miss Bebop. You f*cker.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leofan26

Are you happy with how things went than?

I stopped watching the show at some point within the first season. But no, that's not how I would've wanted it but I said to you and others before to not get your hopes up for how it was going to be handled. I don't know what else to tell you if you wanted to believe otherwise.

[HamsterAndTurtleSoup]

Thought the finale was absolutely outstanding. It's a real shame Nick (and set-in-their-ways TMNT fans) never gave this show a goddamn chance. Seeing it die like this is painful, but at least it didn't get dragged out past all levels of decent quality like 2012 did imo.

Looking forward to the movie!

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by HamsterAndTurtleSoup

It's a real shame Nick (and set-in-their-ways TMNT fans) never gave this show a goddamn chance.

Yeah that's totally it. I didn't give this show a chance.

[Leo656]

How DARE people who like TMNT, not devote themselves wholeheartedly to something that bears only the most passing resemblance at all to "TMNT". If you squint. And then just plain close your eyes and make believe because even squinting doesn't present the illusion that there's anything in common.

I mean, they're drawn totally wrong, and the personalities are all wrong, and everyone's got a totally different and nonsensical backstory, and the white people are black and the dudes are now chicks, and it's really less "TMNT" and more "Bugs Bunny in Greenface"...

BUT aside from ALL THAT it's exactly the same!

Yeah, it's so incredibly weird that people would get so mad that it literally has nothing to do with "TMNT" aside from the name. Why should people get so hung up on petty little things like "literally everything"?

[HamsterAndTurtleSoup]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Yeah that's totally it. I didn't give this show a chance.

Hey, man, you're totally allowed to not like a thing. I respect if it wasn't for you. That doesn't mean:

a) thing is objectively bad
b) thing should be trashtalked at every possible opportunity and actively petitioned for cancellation by "real fans"
c) people who like it aren't "real" fans
d) thing should immediately go away because you personally don't like it

The TMNT fandom isn't a monolith. There are versions of turtles out there for everyone. I'm sorry this one didn't tickle your fancy but the level of spite and vitriol I've seen thrown at the show was utterly undeserved. Maybe redirect the spite at Nickelodeon who are stuck in the ancient ways of "only one major cartoon at a time and must be for kids only".

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by HamsterAndTurtleSoup

Thought the finale was absolute gunk. It's a real blessing Nick (and TMNT fans with actual quality standards) never gave this show a goddamn chance, because it didn't deserve one

Fixed for you

[HamsterAndTurtleSoup]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Fixed for you

Ah, so you're allowed an opinion but other fans who don't like exactly the same things you do aren't? Got it. Makes total sense.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by HamsterAndTurtleSoup

Maybe redirect the spite at Nickelodeon who are stuck in the ancient ways of "only one major cartoon at a time and must be for kids only".

Hey, I can get behind this. I've been saying since Day One, I could easily just ignore Rise's entire existence and keep most of my pith to myself if it weren't the thing carrying the "torch" for the entire goddamn franchise.

As its own thing, it's merely a joke, a drunken one night stand to be alternately mortified by and laughing about later on. But as "Keeper of the Flame"? The current "standard" for the brand? Not acceptable.

Put a "real" TMNT show on the air running concurrently, there's no problem at all with Rise existing. "Turtle Tunes" was terrible. "Turtle Tunes" wasn't the ONLY goddamn TMNT product we were "allowed" to have outside of comics that nobody reads, so by default it's not AS "bad" because it was a thing that could easily be ignored. Not so much, here.

[HamsterAndTurtleSoup]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Hey, I can get behind this. I've been saying since Day One, I could easily just ignore Rise's entire existence and keep most of my pith to myself if it weren't the thing carrying the "torch" for the entire goddamn franchise.

As its own thing, it's merely a joke, a drunken one night stand to be alternately mortified by and laughing about later on. But as "Keeper of the Flame"? The current "standard" for the brand? Not acceptable.

Put a "real" TMNT show on the air running concurrently, there's no problem at all with Rise existing. "Turtle Tunes" was terrible. "Turtle Tunes" wasn't the ONLY goddamn TMNT product we were "allowed" to have outside of comics that nobody reads, so by default it's not AS "bad" because it was a thing that could easily be ignored. Not so much, here.

*Shrug*

Personally when a variant of TMNT is on that doesn't do it for me, I just go back to the versions that do and let people who do enjoy it get on with it. There's a massive amount of content out there - what can really be considered to be 'carrying the torch' in a franchise with over 30 years of content across so many different mediums?

I also like seeing creators being given scope to play with the concept. I had a lot of fun with those summer shorts Nick put out during 2012's run, for example. There are some talented people out there with great fresh ideas. AUs are pretty much canon in the turtleverse anyway. I do think Rise would have been better accepted as a fixed-length high concept piece on Netflix as opposed to trying to cram it into a traditional cartoon show format on Nick, though.

I still say more fans need to find their Leo zen, though. I get being so interested in turtles that this stuff matters, but I can't get behind the toxic gatekeeping. It's unnecessary. Turtles forever

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by HamsterAndTurtleSoup

I do think Rise would have been better accepted as a fixed-length high concept piece on Netflix as opposed to trying to cram it into a traditional cartoon show format on Nick, though.

Honestly, with stuff like Batman: Gotham By Gaslight or the Batman Unlimited films, maybe that wouldn't have been such a bad idea.*shrugs*

[Leo656]

To clarify: By "carrying the torch", I mean "The current mainstream product that for better or worse is representing the TMNT brand to the entire world." The "face" of the franchise at any given time.

For the last couple years, there's been "Rise" and a comic book that only a few people read, and nothing else. That means "Rise" is the brand's "representative" on the global stage. And that's not exactly putting one's best foot forward.

They could and should be putting their resources towards better projects, but as I've said, it's Nickelodeon, anything they do will be blech. So it's whatever, but "Rise" would be a less-bitter pill if people had ANY other options for TMNT media outside of watching the 1990 film for the hundredth time.

It's unfair that the majority are left only with This, That, or Nothing as choices.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Hockey Boy

What was with those Krang/Ultrom(?) Easter Eggs that went nowhere?Cmon gimme the BRAIN
all in all the series was....alright. Let?s wait and see if that movies any good
But no, seriously, what was with the Krang, Iwanthimiwanthimiwanthimiwanthim

Ohh, thank you, I thought I'd caught that but parts of this show are so rushed I really wasn't 100% sure I saw a Krang/an Utrom, as a skeleton, then forgot about it.

Though in that moment that fleeting image and hundreds of years-old great grandma Karai (and Saki) made me feel like they should have made this a new set of Turtles existing in the future. (Dammit, now I want that to be a thing, with Draxum using preserved DNA of a previous TMNT to create this set.)

Who knows, maybe the Krang cameo will turn out to be a hint related to the Netflix movie.



edit: So what exactly happened to all of the Foot members? Am I forgetting a moment where they all defected or were lost? Last I recall them they were seen helping move cargo onto Big Mama's train, right?

[neatoman]

Let's see if I can get the timeline straight here:

• At some point in the past, probably before humans ever set foot on the American continent, an Utrom dies in Manhattan and Ooze he carried with him leaks out.
• The ooze creates the Yokai who build their underground city.
• At some later point, another Utrom gives Oroku Saki the Shredder armor and he goes on to commit atrocities.
• His daughter Karai goes on to seal him away and her family makes sure he stays sealed.
• Hundreds of years pass and Hamato Yoshi becomes a movie star.
• Baron Draxum uses the ooze for mutation experiments and abducts Yoshi for this, mutating him and the turtles.

That's it right?

[shredder orokusaki]

And again idefeated the turtes! Now wait for the next series where this time i will be human again like in 2012. I beat them a lot! They will pay for what they did to me!

[Galactus]

Anyone have an image of the gender flipped Casey? I'm curious.