Shredder's inability to find the Turtles Lair

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by The Deadman

If Shredder attacked the lair right away, there'd be no reason to have multiple seasons.

If Shredder found and attacked the Turtle Lair, the Turtles would just have to relocate.

[cammy85]

Metalhead, Monroe Q Flemm, Lexx, Lotus Blossom, and Chronos found them without any real problem. Zack doesn't count... or does he????

[Zachatello00]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I like how Rita's plans would vary between taking over Angel Grove, to wiping out the Power Rangers to 'awww Kimberly is working on a parade float, let's smash it and ruin her day!'

Rita Repulsa was literally the 'that's a real nice thing you got there, be a real shame if someone were to **** it up' meme before the meme existed.

I also always wondered why Rita never just announced to the world who the Rangers were. Thought would have been problematic for them at best.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Zachatello00

I also always wondered why Rita never just announced to the world who the Rangers were. Thought would have been problematic for them at best.

Never thought of it like that but you're right. I never got just how Rita found out who they were to begin with.

[neatoman]

I can't believe I haven't posted this here before but... Ahem...

...

Shredder is the guy responsible for mutating the turtles, he knew exactly where Hamato Yoshi was hiding. It was never implied he moved after mutating and the setting of the mutation looks just like the lair. For all intents and purposes, Shredder should know damn well where they are, he just forgot out of convenience.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Shredder is the guy responsible for mutating the turtles, he knew exactly where Hamato Yoshi was hiding. It was never implied he moved after mutating and the setting of the mutation looks just like the lair. For all intents and purposes, Shredder should know damn well where they are, he just forgot out of convenience.

To be fair, the lair doesn't get its established and specific look until the start of season 3, so it's not out of possibility that they moved multiple times before then off-screen. Even between seasons 1 and 2, the lair looks wildly inconsistent so from a story perspective, constantly moving around to avoid the villains is probable.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I can't believe I haven't posted this here before but... Ahem...

...

Shredder is the guy responsible for mutating the turtles, he knew exactly where Hamato Yoshi was hiding. It was never implied he moved after mutating and the setting of the mutation looks just like the lair. For all intents and purposes, Shredder should know damn well where they are, he just forgot out of convenience.

Yeah, that's always been a huge sticking point for me, too. A big reason why I can't stand the whole "Shredder kind of accidentally on purpose caused Splinter and the Turtles to mutate". Then why is it so hard for him to just go back to that Exact Same Spot whenever he looks for them? Because there's good odds that you take 40 paces in any direction from that spot, you'd find their lair.

Like people talk a lot of sh*t about "Superman Returns". But given that it's a kinda/sorta sequel to Superman II, the fact that one of the very first things Lex does after he gets out of prison is go to the North Pole and break into Superman's house again, with the intent to do a better job this time, was fantastic. Okay, some people said it was "lazy" and "a rehash", but think about it, why WOULDN'T he do Exactly That? He knows where Superman's house is! To NOT go back there and try and screw around more is what would be dumb; what he did was a rare case of a movie villain doing what logic and common sense would dictate, rather than "Well, we did that in another movie so we can't do it again." Nonsense.

Also, you hate that cartoon more than I hate Obama and for whatever reason it always makes me smile.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

To be fair, the lair doesn't get its established and specific look until the start of season 3, so it's not out of possibility that they moved multiple times before then off-screen. Even between seasons 1 and 2, the lair looks wildly inconsistent so from a story perspective, constantly moving around to avoid the villains is probable.

In theory. In practice, we've seen exactly how lazy these jokers are, which is Very. Hopping around setting up shop in a new place every few weeks sounds good on paper but I can't see the Turtles - or at least THESE specific Ninja Turtles - doing it, on account of it would just be too much hassle, maaaaaaaan.

Although on-paper it does sound like a better excuse for the lair's inconsistent look early on, rather than "They just couldn't be bothered sticking to model sheets (or even having model sheets for the lair)," which we all know was the real reason.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

In theory. In practice, we've seen exactly how lazy these jokers are, which is Very. Hopping around setting up shop in a new place every few weeks sounds good on paper but I can't see the Turtles - or at least THESE specific Ninja Turtles - doing it, on account of it would just be too much hassle, maaaaaaaan.

I could imagine 80s Mike and especially Raph being extremely lazy about it, but Splinter would've given them a good beating, and they would've eventually helped move house.

[Leo656]

No, no, it was the BayTurtles Splinter who was a child-abusing monster. You're getting your Splinters confused.

BayTurtles Splinter was the physically abusive one, "Rise" Splinter was the emotionally-abusive one who couldn't even be assed to remember their names, and Mirage Splinter was the sociopath who drafted his "sons" from their "birth" into a war they had nothing to do with and twisted them until their lives had no meaning without revenge and bloodshed.

FW Splinter, on the other hand, was generally mellow and laid-back. Worst case, he and Leo would move all the stuff themselves and not tell the other guys where they'd moved to, leaving them to figure it out for themselves. That, I could very much see happening.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I dunno man, he seems pretty strict throughout the show. Definetly willing to get physical if orders are not followed.

[Leo656]

I guess it's settled, then. Every Splinter except 1990 Movie Splinter is a goddamn dick.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I dunno man, he seems pretty strict throughout the show. Definetly willing to get physical if orders are not followed.

Ah yes, the famous "Sacagawea" battle cry.

[Coola Yagami]

Wtf. Since when were they crime fighters???

[DarkFell]

Because someone that really wants to do a thing (say, as in Shredder searching for the Turtles' Lair), doesn't achieve it and the OT fans cheer on. But, if a random individual (or even The Rat-King) can find the lair by dumb coincidence, then it's a different situation and we have an episode!

It's an odd storyline formula and I'm halfway certain that the OT wasn't the only show that consistently exploited it.

[mikey22]

I love how he just walked in there in cowabunga shredhead w/ mikeys memory apparently?? lol

[Prowler]

And how come he never followed April around to find the Lair? He did try to follow the Turtles a fee times before but they quickly realised they were being followed. As expected from good ninjas. But April? She's no ninja. And EVERYONE in New York knows she's the face of Channel 6. So it would seem logical to me to follow her around whenever she went off the station building.

As for the mutagen and Splinter thing, well they couldn't flat out say Shredder wanted Yoshi dead. Or show him trying to kill him. So they had to work around that... but did it poorly. Maybe Shredder thought Yoshi becoming a grotesque human sized rat would make him never rkeavr the sewers again or eventually be captured and killed by the government or something. But the irony is, Yoshi had no idea Shredder was also in USA. And even if he knew, he was now a homeless man living in the sewers. So what threat did he pose to Shredder exactly?

[Leo656]

Yeah, Shredder's whole "plan" to "eliminate" Hamato Yoshi by dumping mutagen down the sewer never made any damn sense and it always bugged me. Even Krang was like, "That was stupid, you stupid idiot".

And yes, since he knew April was thick as thieves with the Turtles, one would think all he'd have to do is follow her around for a while, or pay someone to do the same, and he'd either find the Turtles' lair or catch them otherwise unawares eventually.

Even the good 80s cartoons had a ton of sh*t writing, objectively. I think "The Real Ghostbusters" was probably the best-written show of its era; there really wasn't anything in the original few seasons that was completely ridiculous, full of plot holes, or otherwise made you sigh and just agree to not notice so it wouldn't ruin the show for you. Everything else was pretty shoddy.

For example, like in the He-Man cartoon - which I still love - there was this constant inconsistency where sometimes Skeletor could just tune in and see what all the good guys were up to from his evil lair, and sometimes he couldn't; but even when he could, he somehow NEVER happened to tune in at a moment where Adam turned into He-Man, or talked about being He-Man, or any of that stuff. The bad guys knew where the good guys lived - because most of them lived in a gigantic palace - but the villains almost never tried to just storm the castle or anything, despite having just as much tech and weapons as the good guys. Instead they'd always just come up with some plan to trick Teela into going into the woods by herself so someone could jump her, or something.

Looking for logic in any 1980s cartoon - even the good ones, which I would count MOTU and TMNT among - just makes your head hurt. At the end of the day, even if they'll deny it, "Kids are stupid, they won't care" was the general rule of thumb for writing scripts back then. They DO deny it to this day, when asked, but... if you actually WATCH the shows, you can tell, for a fact, that the "Kids Are Stupid" rule was in full effect, because otherwise there's just NO way so many gaps of logic or other inconsistencies ever could have happened.

[Prowler]

Funny thing is, there is an episode or two, at least, where Shredder and Krang can see on the Techbodrome big screen what the Turtles are doing. How, though? Did they have cameras all over New York? And if that's the case... why not put some in the sewer tunnels in order to try locating the lair?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Funny thing is, there is an episode or two, at least, where Shredder and Krang can see on the Techbodrome big screen what the Turtles are doing. How, though? Did they have cameras all over New York? And if that's the case... why not put some in the sewer tunnels in order to try locating the lair?

In episode 3, "A thing about rats", we see Shredder release tiny flying helicopters with cameras into the city, and he also probably used them when he was spying on Yoshi prior to mutation.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

In episode 3, "A thing about rats", we see Shredder release tiny flying helicopters with cameras into the city, and he also probably used them when he was spying on Yoshi prior to mutation.

That idea is hilarious to me.

"Ah yes! I sit here with my army of robots, giant death machine, portal to other dimensions, mutagenic substances and various other things that will help me conquer this planet! Now I will use my vast resources to... SPY ON A SEWER HOBO TO MAKE SURE HE ISN'T A THREAT!!!"