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Old 07-31-2020, 11:40 PM   #361
Andrew NDB
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My $0.02. For me, only speaking personally, the excitement would have been in marketing embracing this as "The Mirage Final Story" (also, and I'm sure questions were asked and it was probably a "no" but maybe more nudging of Laird to participate anew). But I can understand and appreciate the want for the ambiguity of things, like for fans it can be "Is it the Final IDW Story? Is it the Final Mirage Story? Let's make it vague so it could be either!" But it in making it either, it also kind of makes it neither. It just kind of makes it this thing that's there.

Also, no slight on Ben Bishop or Kuhn when it was Kuhn at all, but also it would have been more of a "bombshell" if -- obviously barring Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird duoing the art, as in the past -- it'd been the Mirage "house" artists tackling it, for good measure. Since I think the idea should have been to tickle the nostalgia of fans (the "lost TMNT story" and all). Like, Lawson with Kevin's inks would have been amazing beyond measure. Or Dooney on his own.
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:23 AM   #362
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I dunno...getting Mirage artists other than Eastman & Laird would be a bit of a gamble sales wise.

Like it would be Lawson doing the art, wouldn't it? I love his work but I'm not sure it would be a good fit for a mainstream book. Maybe if they could Dooney to do more than just covers and pin ups but that seems unlikely.

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Old 08-01-2020, 10:52 AM   #363
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Laird's name shouldn't be on the cover, that's it. This is not an Eastman/Laird collaboration, it's fake news, fake marketing.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:26 AM   #364
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Laird's name shouldn't be on the cover, that's it. This is not an Eastman/Laird collaboration, it's fake news, fake marketing.
It is partly his concept, so by legal standards his name has to be somewhere attached to it. I don?t mind it being on the cover.
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:12 PM   #365
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I dunno...getting Mirage artists other than Eastman & Laird would be a bit of a gamble sales wise.
I'm not sure Kuhn or Bishop themselves are "draws" on the shelves.

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Like it would be Lawson doing the art, wouldn't it?
With Kevin on inks, as I said. You can see how this looks back in Vol. 1, #21. Very unique.
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Old 08-01-2020, 07:04 PM   #366
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I liked Lawson's work best in City at War, but can't remember who did the inking there. Could have been Lawson himself for all I know.
It still had the signature cartoony Lawson style, but the figures seemed to have more weight, depth, and detail.
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Old 08-01-2020, 07:41 PM   #367
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I liked Lawson's work best in City at War, but can't remember who did the inking there. Could have been Lawson himself for all I know.
It still had the signature cartoony Lawson style, but the figures seemed to have more weight, depth, and detail.
I believe it was Kieth Aiken or some name like that inking the whole CAW story. I disagree about Eastman inking Lawson today. It'd be a disaster. Lawson's work has changed so drastically even Kevin inking it would not change it or make it look like the art from RTNY. We're talking about the fact Kevin and Peter did the layouts for RTNY. Jim drew from what was shown somewhat. Jim's style then was awesome back then that it complimented those two's art. To me he was the next best Mirage artist after Kevin and Peter for Mirage TMNT. His style now would be totally unsuitable for something as epic as Last Ronin nor for mainstream comics from IDW. You wouldn't want that art as the selling point of Last Ronin, right? I don't want to put Jim's art down but its not the way to sell a comic if it was the only choice. He's done so much TMNT art it really is time for another artist. Mike Dooney and Steve Lavigne are the same in terms of a cartoony style more so. Eric Talbot I think could do it if he stuck to Kevin's style from the layouts. Eric's art now for the TMNT has a more creepy reptilian vibe. The best would be Craig Farley. He'd be awesome. Its a shame he doesn't get more comic work from other publishers. Hell, Frank Fosco to me would be OK as well for Last Ronin. He to me would be the imaginary Mirage artist. His style is almost up to Mirage like material and standard.
My question is Ben Bishop up for the challenge of completing this mini series? Said he's gonna do it. Unless this is mistaken, I initially heard Ben was doing only flashbacks scenes. Is he the full artist on Last Ronin now?
I'm only basing this from the summarised article from bleedingcool of the TMNT comic con video of Tom, Kevin and Ben, i didn't watch it.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:31 PM   #368
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I liked Lawson's work best in City at War, but can't remember who did the inking there. Could have been Lawson himself for all I know.
It still had the signature cartoony Lawson style, but the figures seemed to have more weight, depth, and detail.
Lawson's art after CaW doesn't work for more "serious" storylines, the only issue he did that I really enjoyed in the Tales/Vol 4 era was the last issue of Gang Wars due its comedic nature.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:27 PM   #369
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I think Frank Fosco is a great suggestion. I’d love to see him follow Kevin’s layouts if the two were up for it.
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Old 08-02-2020, 03:51 AM   #370
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I don't agree. Kevin is a guy that takes a lot of liberties as an inker (and not in a bad way)... you throw his inks over Lawson's pencils. Wow.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:43 AM   #371
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I don't agree. Kevin is a guy that takes a lot of liberties as an inker (and not in a bad way)... you throw his inks over Lawson's pencils. Wow.
I think the idea of bringing some semblance of a Mirage 'team' would, indeed, be interesting and I certainly miss some of the distinct art from that original period. Whilst I find the modern art to be more on the 'realistic' side, I loved the flair that some of the original TMNT art had. That said, I do enjoy the work of some of the 'current' TMNT artists and Bishop is one.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:24 PM   #372
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I don't agree. Kevin is a guy that takes a lot of liberties as an inker (and not in a bad way)... you throw his inks over Lawson's pencils. Wow.
Your basing this on art from 31 years ago. Kevin's style now can also be funky looking at times. His covers for the Ultimate Collection HC's and TPB versions vary in his best effort or not. Look at Ryan Brown and Jim Lawson together again from Tales TMNT Vol. 1, to Tales of TMNT Vol. 2 #25 in 2006? Brown couldn't make it look better. We've never seen Kevin ink over Jim's art of today. Sure Kevin may give the inking and black depth onto the art but he won't be able to improve the art. We've seen Peter inking over Jim during a chunk of TMNT Vol. 4. It only looked decent because Peter was using the duotone shades again. Peter still inked it awhile after he stopped the duotone shades but he at least tried to make the characters look more rounded. Jim's style is every figure is all blocky and square shaped corners from fingers to toes, faces, etc. Nothing like the style Last Ronin's art that's been previewed so far.
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:09 PM   #373
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A lost piece of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles history was being recreated as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Last Ronin by Kevin Eastman, Tom Waltz, and Andy Kuhn, from an original outline written by Turtles co-creators Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird back in 1987 and set in 2017. Eastman revisited the future Turtles story from the past, established in 2040, and scheduled as a five-issue series.

The first issue was initially solicited to be published next week, the 19th of August 2020. Naturally, it was late, and the schedule slipped to the 16th of September, and it recently went to Final Order Cut-Off with, I am told, very large order numbers, and it made it high onto the Advance Reorders chart.

But now there's a big change. Esau Escorza and Isaac Escorza, best known for their work on Tarna for Heavy Metal, are now joining the art team with Kevin Eastman, but Andy Kuhn is no longer listed on the creative team. Apparently, this stems from poor retailer reaction to The Last Ronin preview, and a new sampler is in the works.

Also, the book's launch has been pushed back until late October, with the first FOC date now rescheduled to the 5th of October ahead of publication on the 28th of October, while the second issue has slipped all the way into December. Here are the solicited books and current schedules for all five issues.

TMNT THE LAST RONIN #1 (OF 5)
IDW PUBLISHING
JUN200557
(W) Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird, Tom Waltz (A/CA) Kevin Eastman, Esau Escorza, Issac Escorza
It's the TMNT event of 2020! Springing from the minds of TMNT co-creators Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird comes an epic like you've never seen before! In a future NYC far different than the one we know today, a lone surviving Turtle goes on a seemingly hopeless mission to obtain justice for his fallen family and friends. Kinetic layouts from Eastman, moody inks from Andy Kuhn and a thrilling script full of surprises from longtime TMNT scribe Tom Waltz all combine to make this one of the most memorable TMNT stories you will ever read! Oversized in both format and page count, this is a perennial TMNT tale that can't be missed!SRP: $8.99 NEW FOC: 10/5/20 On Sale Date: 10/28/20

TMNT THE LAST RONIN #2 (OF 5)
IDW PUBLISHING
AUG200574
Secrets are revealed as we begin to discover what happened in the past to lead to this nightmarish future. The Ronin meets an unexpected new ally, but the Foot Clan begins an exhaustive sweep of the Bottom to find the vengeful mutant. And what role does Baxter Stockman play? SRP: $8.99. On Sale Date: 12/16/20

TMNT THE LAST RONIN #3 (OF 5)
IDW PUBLISHING
On Sale Date: 2/17/21

TMNT THE LAST RONIN #4 (OF 5)
IDW PUBLISHING
On Sale Date: 4/14/21

TMNT THE LAST RONIN #5 (OF 5)
IDW PUBLISHING
On Sale Date: 5/19/21
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/kevi...-with-changes/
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:55 PM   #374
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So if the first issue is being completely redrawn, how collectible does that make the ashcan with Andy?s artwork?
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:10 AM   #375
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So if the first issue is being completely redrawn, how collectible does that make the ashcan with Andy?s artwork?
Is that what's happening? Do we know for sure?

I'm so confused.
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Old 08-13-2020, 06:08 AM   #376
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Esau Escorza? That's a totaly different look. Did he ever draw any turtles so I can see what the ronin will look like?

Andy Kuhn leaving was addressed here https://www.comicsbeat.com/sdcc-20-k...el-last-ronin/

Last edited by Diorm; 08-13-2020 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:09 AM   #377
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Just saw the news myself... TMNT LAST RONIN #1 has been delayed till October with issue 2 now moving to December, also it has been confirmed it will have a new creative team.

So, does that make the series less desirable at all. Does this news damage its hype?
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:39 AM   #378
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I'm glad it is being delayed. I was beginning to worry about them getting desperate and grabbing whoever they could to rush the artwork. This is good to hear.

That said, I'm skeptical of Bleeding Cool's reasoning, but it's interesting if true. I think Kuhn's art is quite good, if maybe not spectacular for a book as big as this, but why would retailers make a fuss about this book?

Now to check out the new artists...

Edit: okay it's hard to get a good idea of exactly how this will look, as both artists have their own pencils/inks to find, so who knows what their approach will be.
That said, it's damn good art either way. Can't wait to see them follow Kevin's layouts.
This will be best for the book and please people here as well, I'm thinking.
Really curious what will happen with the first issue, regarding Kuhn's art, solicitations, etc.
It will depend how far along he is, but his set of pages would be a really cool "extra" in the collection, if they end up doing the first issue over, which hopefully they can justify for consistency.

Best wishes to any of the team who are reading.

Last edited by AquaParade; 08-13-2020 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 10:56 AM   #379
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More details here, my friends:

https://twitter.com/TomWaltz/status/1293791377445154816

Talk soon...

Tom W.
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Old 08-13-2020, 11:08 AM   #380
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Thanks, Tom! Now we just need you to slip us some preview art.
And for anyone who can't click the link, Tom clarified that the official statement is that this comes down to scheduling and personal issues, not retailer reception. Also, they are re-doing the first issue and have a new colorist on board as well.
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