US citizens crowdfund the border wall

[Leo656]

I used to work in the moving business for about 10 years, and know plenty of people working landscaping, construction, etc.

There's absolutely white people who want those jobs, do those jobs, and would be more than happy to stay in those jobs for a long time, if they paid a little better. And employers will and do absolutely throw it in your face that they keep your wages low on purpose because they can easily replace you with an illegal for half what you already make, so why pay you any more? "Sure, I can pay you $15 an hour to toil away in the hot sun all day long, which is scientifically proven to take years off of your life... OR, I can drive the van past any 7-11 at 6am and pick up a few guys who'll gladly take $5 an hour and never ask for a penny more." Unspoken is the message, "Be glad I give you anything."

A lot of people who use the "jobs white people don't wanna do" argument in favor of illegal immigrants don't exactly have a solid frame of reference. A lot of time they've never worked in those areas, or know anyone who has.
It's a real problem. Some people with very few other income options get laid off for several months a year; there's still manual labor being done, but it's being done by - you guessed it - the $5/hour illegal immigrants.

Now, the pragmatic side of me says, "Those white people should elevate themselves into better jobs anyway," which is what I did. But not everyone can. Lots of those people have had a lot of problems with law enforcement and are never going to get a better job, and lots of them still have families. Yeah, you reap what you sow and all that, but I find it unfair that so many of them struggle to pay their bills simply because other people are willing to do their job at half the pay - people who legally aren't even supposed to be here, no less. Like yeah, everyone's just trying to live, but get in line for f*ck's sake. If people can't understand the vulgarity of this, I can't for the life of me understand why.

That's to say nothing of situations like, "Single mother with two kids is late on her rent payment, gets evicted; 8 illegal immigrants share a two-bedroom unit across the hall, landlord looks the other way because he gets paid in cash. Homeless assistance supposedly provided by the state tells single mother and her two kids to sleep in her van until she gets a better job."

Lots of these things have happened to family and friends of mine, so frankly, I'm not brimming over with sympathy for the plight of those who broke the law to get here. They absolutely f*ck sh*t up for other people, and if you disagree, I say just be grateful it hasn't happened to you.

You haven't lived until you've heard a goddamn social worker tell you or your loved ones, "You're white, you're not supposed to have these problems."
-----------------------

This seems kinda silly, though.

[Andrew NDB]

It's also a HUGE misconception that illegal immigrants only occupy jobs that "no one wants to do." I know dozens upon dozens... and they work in all sorts of jobs.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Yet MOST of the illegal immigrants said wall would "stop" are Latino, ergo- racist. In other words, that wall was designed for ONE purpose ONLY- to keep Central and South Americans (mainly Latinos) out of the US. It's about as blatantly bigoted as you can get. It would stand as a silent declaration that "we don't want YOUR kind here". Because illegal immigrants from, say.... Russia, India, or China? Would NOT be coming over/through the stinking wall!! In other words, it is directed SOLELY toward ONE ethnicity! Which is racist. Pretty simple.

uhm...

maybe because we only share a walkable border with one country, mexico?

and we don't have this problem with say, canada?

[Candy Kappa]

This just gets funnier and funnier

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...e-news-n950636

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/12/2...rock-colorado/

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Depending on your area, he is actually right. Texas has a fairly high percentage of construction and food service jobs held by immigrants. I should know- I work with a whole store full of them. More than HALF our crew are primarily Spanish-speaking immigrants, and the same is true of almost every chain restaurant in our town- which is a rural community with a lot of immigrant agriculture and construction workers. Oil fields and rock-haulers, Or even truck drivers in general. They make up a big chunk of our population here. Most speak only basic or rudimentary English- as evidenced by how often they ask "Espaniol" when ordering. Many also still have family south of the border, too. Don't know about up north, but here, at least, he is absolutely correct!

No he is not..... I literally just provided statistical data that he is wrong... Anecdotal evidence stories are meaningless and differ from each person...... Statistically he is wrong and you are wrong. You may be telling the truth and Your city may simply be an "outlier" of most cities. But statistically you are both incorrect and over-exaggerating.

Show me actual statistics

[Redeemer]

sorry for back to back post but didn't want this buried in my text.

Someone just donated $50,000 last night

I wish I could throw money like that around

[Voltron]

Hey, if those dumb asses want to throw their hard earned money away for a con-artist's ******** plan, I say go for it.

At this point, Trump has zero credibility as a politician. Even if he gets $5 billion from his supporters, which is unlikely, his track record suggests that $4 billion dollars will not be used to build the wall.

The only good thing about this is that none of his supporters will mind that the $3 billion in donations weren't used as Trump promised, and none of them will see receive a cent from that $2 billion gift.

Even if he *IS* asked why that $1 billion was never spent on the wall, he'll just say that's how under budget he did it for.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

You realize that is a bs lie you just told

Most= more than 50%

Illegal immigrants account for less than 15% of the hispanic/Latino population

So it is statistically impossible for most blue collar jobs to be accounted for by illegals.

But they undercut wages bc employers know they can pay them less bc they are illegally here taking jobs away from blue collar unionized workers.

So try again please

edit for facts. lol foreigners legal and illegal account for only 17% of construction workers lol way off from "mostly"

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf

I dunno, man, it seems to be the case for my area: big ol' Texas. They don't speak English hardly at all, and 4 out of 5 of them are Hispanic. I don't have a problem with them, and I'm grateful that they do the jobs they do.

If they ain't illegal, then I'm assuming. No skin off my nose either way.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Hey, if those dumb asses want to throw their hard earned money away for a con-artist's ******** plan, I say go for it.

At this point, Trump has zero credibility as a politician. Even if he gets $5 billion from his supporters, which is unlikely, his track record suggests that $4 billion dollars will not be used to build the wall.

The only good thing about this is that none of his supporters will mind that the $3 billion in donations weren't used as Trump promised, and none of them will see receive a cent from that $2 billion gift.

Even if he *IS* asked why that $1 billion was never spent on the wall, he'll just say that's how under budget he did it for.

The ongoing narrative: "No matter what Trump does... it will be WRONG!"

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I dunno, man, it seems to be the case for my area: big ol' Texas. They don't speak English hardly at all, and 4 out of 5 of them are Hispanic. I don't have a problem with them, and I'm grateful that they do the jobs they do.

If they ain't illegal, then I'm assuming. No skin off my nose either way.

Hey I am sure southern/border states have a more concentrated populous of illegals, the four states probably have more illegals and the further north you are the less illegal immigrants that populate the area I assume/ guess (I say that bc I don't have stats in front of me.) The information I said in previous post I got from actual stats.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Hey I am sure southern/border states have a more concentrated populous of illegals, the four states probably have more illegals and the further north you are the less illegal immigrants that populate the area I assume/ guess (I say that bc I don't have stats in front of me.) The information I said in previous post I got from actual stats.

Well, there's plenty here in WA. If I were extrapolate just based on the illegal families I know now, their extended families, their cousins... we're talking tens of thousands, and probably more.

It seems like the democrats are playing the long game here. Like, let all of the illegal immigrants in so that when they all have kids (which would be defacto citizens, if born here)... guess which party they'll be voting for in 18 years, complete with sob stories to liberal microphones about how their mom and dad snuck in illegally fought hard to have a new life in the U.S.? It's not a caravan of immigrants, it's a caravan of democratic voters in a generation.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Yet MOST of the illegal immigrants said wall would "stop" are Latino, ergo- racist. In other words, that wall was designed for ONE purpose ONLY- to keep Central and South Americans (mainly Latinos) out of the US. It's about as blatantly bigoted as you can get. It would stand as a silent declaration that "we don't want YOUR kind here". Because illegal immigrants from, say.... Russia, India, or China? Would NOT be coming over/through the stinking wall!! In other words, it is directed SOLELY toward ONE ethnicity! Which is racist. Pretty simple.

It's like the wall will stop legal immigrants from Southern and Central Americas and it creation will disintegrate all Latinos already living in US.

Oh, wait.
It won't.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's also a HUGE misconception that illegal immigrants only occupy jobs that "no one wants to do." I know dozens upon dozens... and they work in all sorts of jobs.

Yet people aren't pushing politicians to outlaw and punish companies hiring them and being a major attractant in the first place.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It seems like the democrats are playing the long game here. Like, let all of the illegal immigrants in so that when they all have kids (which would be defacto citizens, if born here)... guess which party they'll be voting for in 18 years, complete with sob stories to liberal microphones about how their mom and dad snuck in illegally fought hard to have a new life in the U.S.? It's not a caravan of immigrants, it's a caravan of democratic voters in a generation.

Oh, absolutely. They don't even try to hide it, anymore.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Oh, absolutely. They don't even try to hide it, anymore.

lt's a sound strategy. And in the short term, Republicans get the cheap labor. Not sure what their long game is regarding immigration, though.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

No he is not..... I literally just provided statistical data that he is wrong... Anecdotal evidence stories are meaningless and differ from each person...... Statistically he is wrong and you are wrong. You may be telling the truth and Your city may simply be an "outlier" of most cities. But statistically you are both incorrect and over-exaggerating.

Show me actual statistics

Your statistics assume a more or less even distribution, which is not the case. What may be true for a given area the statistics were taken from- may NOT be true for an area more directly affected by immigration. Also, statistics can and often are manipulated or skewed toward a particular bias or proposed "truth". Meanwhile, those stats would mean bupkiss elsewhere. Unless you can PROVE that is literally the case unilaterally nationwide, I'll take the unofficial survey of my own area as more indicative. It's called observational data. And no, it is not an exaggeration or incorrect- it is ABSOLUTELY true in large parts of Texas, given we have the longest shared border with Mexico of any US state. Such evidence as we both mentioned is just as valid as "pretty numbers", ie, stats made by questioneers- and you don't SERIOUSLY expect those immigrants to answer truthfully whether they are here legally, DO you?!!

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

uhm...

maybe because we only share a walkable border with one country, mexico?

and we don't have this problem with say, canada?

BINGO! We don't see Trump demanding a wall against Canada, do we? What's surprising is that Canada isn't building their own wall to keep out the US citizens wanting to defect- er, immigrate to a country with saner government and better healthcare!

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I dunno, man, it seems to be the case for my area: big ol' Texas. They don't speak English hardly at all, and 4 out of 5 of them are Hispanic. I don't have a problem with them, and I'm grateful that they do the jobs they do.

If they ain't illegal, then I'm assuming. No skin off my nose either way.

Exactly. Just in my town alone, the population (around 6000, btw) is split up with about 1/3 caucasian, with the rest mostly Latino or black, and some Indian(from India, not Native American) Middle Eastern, and a few Asians theown in. ) But primarily Hispanic, ie, Mexican. I know because I get a pretty good cross-section of them EVERY SINGLE DAY. Right in front of me, as both customers and coworkers. That's all the statistics I need. Maybe not as "pretty" or official, by some university or census study, but just as real. Texas is full of em, and yes, many ARE illegal. (That becomes obvious when one tries to speak to them and discovers that they barely speak English, and also tend to pay in cash- often in large bills. As in, under the table pay.)

Originally Posted by Sumac

It's like the wall will stop legal immigrants from Southern and Central Americas and it creation will disintegrate all Latinos already living in US.

Oh, wait.
It won't.

Ya missed the point there, Schecky. The wall is more a symbolic middle finger to Mexico than anything. Nobody said it would "get rid of" those already here, or that it would do more than act as a placebo to assuage the sensibilities of those who don't realize that the majority of illegal immigrants from anywhere but Central or South America are brought in BY DRUG CARTELS AND SEX TRAFFICERS. Who all have their own methods that basically make a joke of walls or other "barriers".

But said wall WILL be a barrier to OTHER "immigrants" who literally have neither knowledge nor concern for artificial bountries of man. See also, last remaining US Jaguars and Ocelots. To name just a couple. Oh yeah, and that wall? Will go right through a MAJOR Monarch migration sanctuary! Tearing up the land, destroying runoff pathways, disrupting territory of both predators and prey species of all kinds, ruining habitat of important plants..... The list could go on. But what do we care, if it keeps a few thousand illegals out? While we lose valuable natural resources. Way to misinterpret the meaning. AGAIN.

[Redeemer]

we are up to 13 million!!
This is crazy.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Your statistics assume a more or less even distribution, which is not the case. What may be true for a given area the statistics were taken from- may NOT be true for an area more directly affected by immigration. Also, statistics can and often are manipulated or skewed toward a particular bias or proposed "truth". Meanwhile, those stats would mean bupkiss elsewhere. Unless you can PROVE that is literally the case unilaterally nationwide, I'll take the unofficial survey of my own area as more indicative. It's called observational data. And no, it is not an exaggeration or incorrect- it is ABSOLUTELY true in large parts of Texas, given we have the longest shared border with Mexico of any US state. Such evidence as we both mentioned is just as valid as "pretty numbers", ie, stats made by questioneers- and you don't SERIOUSLY expect those immigrants to answer truthfully whether they are here legally, DO you?!!

The statistics I gate was for the country as a whole which is what I thought we were talking about.

The word you are looking is External Validity. The statistics I provided has good External Validity for the topic if we are talking about the entire country as a whole which I thought we were talking about.

But also your observational data is meaningless bc you would have to extrapolate it if you wanted to apply it to the national, state or even city level. It would be fined data for your local community, but you would also have to us Cohen's D to calculate effect size to determine correlation to determine correlation strength.

But the data I provided from previous post is from the department of statistics not some media outlet or extremist trying to skew data to push an agenda. The data I provided is better than anecdotal/opinion based evidence that others have suggested in this thread.

I think we are getting off topic though talking about statistics

Bottom line I due agree your area may be different/outliar. But my point still stand that blue collar or working poor is not mostly made up of illegal immigrants, no where near it from what I can see.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The ongoing narrative: "No matter what Trump does... it will be WRONG!"

How does it feel to be on the opposite end of that? Imagine the frustration of watching a great and internationally admired leader like Obama have to deal with a bunch of losers who wouldn't help make the country a better place.

Now we have this big orange nobody in office who literally is everything the GOP claimed Obama and the Democrats were, and he's getting the very just response from not only the left but his own party, as well.

Trump is a failure. Even in winning, the GOP have proven that all they can do is lose.

And just to refute your point, I don't feel that everything Trump has done is wrong. I was happy that he pulled out of the TPP, for example. That was a good move that protected our national sovereignty. I'm glad he banned bump stocks, too.

As for Obama, I wasn't fond of all his policies or decisions either.
Didn't like the increased drone strikes.
He bombed Syria.
Never went after the people responsible for the 2008 crash.

The list goes on.

What I'm trying to say is, if you want to discuss politics, some impartiality benefits everyone. Demanding total obedience to a political figure sends off creepy vibes.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The ongoing narrative: "No matter what Trump does... it will be WRONG!"

I don't like Trump, but I think I can understand why he won.

You get a bunch of opposing people that get so enthralled with being 'progressive' and pie in the sky mentality that they stop living in the real world. They don't like to listen to normal people who have to live in the world and the consequences of any of these pie in the sky dreams, and frequently shut down any opinion that they don't like.

So they shut down the complaints of poor people that don't like illegals taking resources and jobs meant to help American poor. They don't mention the opinions legal immigrants who consider illegals to be 'cheats.' They don't consider that illegals poach wildlife and leave litter and garbage along the paths they take to get here.

They like to tell people that illegals do the jobs that nobody wants, easily forgetting that not everyone is middle to upper class like them, that yes, those jobs might not be what they want to do, but it doesn't mean other people have a choice.

The worst thing though, is that they have a derisive attitude towards those they think they are above. I think that is why Trump won, even if he can be an utter pig, at least he was also listening to people, and not telling them how they are dirt of the earth.