If Nickelodeon never bought TMNT

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

They didn't even make twice the budget back.

No but I wouldn't say they were total flops.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Where does that leave us? Out of the Shadows netted 136 million against a 215 production/marketing budget. Ouch.

I get what you're saying, the film needed to make at least twice as much money back. I just think it would have been worse had the film not broke even.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

They don't have any deadly sides. Their shtick is camp and sight gags and goofy humor. They literally didn't hurt a fly in the whole Fred Wolf show that I'm aware of and this idea that they're sadistic heavy hitters is entirely imaginary and revisionist history.

Bebop and Rocksteady were brawn over brains. They were totally destructive because they were strong but also because they were thick. Go back the pilot, they gave the Turtles a run for their money when they were first introduced only for the Turtles to show more intelligence than them. Throughout the cartoon the mutants continue to cause mayhem. They can't really say on the cartoon that off screen someone has been killed but at least on screen they don't kill anyone. So I ask the question: are Bebop and Rocksteady a threat in the FW cartoon with my answer being yes and no. They don't kill anyone but they can cause enough carnage to be a threat to the Turtles. They are comedy henchmen but their brute strength as well as reckless behaviour with weapons also makes them trouble. Anyone who says they were evil and dark characters on the series have no idea what they're talking about.

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Return of the Jedi was my favorite as a kid because I liked the Ewoks. lol

Still is for me.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Bebop and Rocksteady almost killed Splinter twice.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Bebop and Rocksteady were brawn over brains. They were totally destructive because they were strong but also because they were thick. Go back the pilot, they gave the Turtles a run for their money when they were first introduced only for the Turtles to show more intelligence than them. Throughout the cartoon the mutants continue to cause mayhem. They can't really say on the cartoon that off screen someone has been killed but at least on screen they don't kill anyone. So I ask the question: are Bebop and Rocksteady a threat in the FW cartoon with my answer being yes and no. They don't kill anyone but they can cause enough carnage to be a threat to the Turtles.

Which episodes specifically did they cause "enough carnage to be a threat to the Turtles"? And forget killing, was there even a single episode of the Fred Wolf show where Bebop and Rocksteady even semi-seriously hurt anyone? Even lightly?

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Which episodes specifically did they cause "enough carnage to be a threat to the Turtles"? And forget killing, was there even a single episode of the Fred Wolf show where Bebop and Rocksteady even semi-seriously hurt anyone? Even lightly?

Besides Bebop violently choking Splinter in Splintered & Shreded I can't recall?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Which episodes specifically did they cause "enough carnage to be a threat to the Turtles"? And forget killing, was there even a single episode of the Fred Wolf show where Bebop and Rocksteady even semi-seriously hurt anyone? Even lightly?

I can barely even remember any kind destruction. I can remember Bebop punching a hole in a wall once and that's about it, I guess they frequently demonstrated strength by heavy lifting but hardly any destruction.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I can barely even remember any kind destruction. I can remember Bebop punching a hole in a wall once and that's about it, I guess they frequently demonstrated strength by heavy lifting but hardly any destruction.

When the show was still allowed to use real guns, despite having bad aim because, you know, kids show, Rocksteady open fired on them if that counts. ^^

But getting down to it, they were both portrayed as super strong, especially Bebop in the beginning.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

When the show was still allowed to use real guns

"Real" ray guns, though, wasn't it? That shot purple bolts or something?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"Real" ray guns, though, wasn't it? That shot purple bolts or something?

No, real bullets. Rocksteady was using a real gun that ep. The cops had them too in that first Neutrino ep, iirc.

[CyberCubed]

Bebop/Rocksteady's most commonly used guns were these laser guns:

[ssjup81]

Yeah, they did, but for the one ep I mentíoned, Rocksteady used a real gun.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I never saw ray-guns as some horrible act of censorship anyway. If you ask me, ray-guns are even more bad@$$. And, if censors think they're shielding children from the existence of guns by using ray-guns in cartoons, the joke's really on them.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

I never saw ray-guns as some horrible act of censorship anyway. If you ask me, ray-guns are even more bad@$$. And, if censors think they're shielding children from the existence of guns by using ray-guns in cartoons, the joke's really on them.

But the most ray guns ever do is knock you back or knock you out without any lasting repercussions. Even the most dangerous bad guys would set their guns to stun, and some time bebop and Rocksteady's guns were flat out called stun lasers or stun guns. So there's no risk of flesh wounds, blood loss, worrying about getting the bullet out or flat out death. They can shoot Leo all they want, just splash water on him and he'll wake up without the need to rush him to get medical attention. So yeah, that does count as censorship.

[CyberCubed]

The laser guns were popularized by Star Wars, obviously. Star Wars came out only a few years before TMNT did. Back in the 80's especially everyone loved laser guns because they were "futuristic" and "so cool."

[ToTheNines]

It came out over a decade before the FW cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

It came out over a decade before the FW cartoon.

But the last movie came out in 1983, and was obviously still a huge phenomenon by the time the original cartoon came out.

Then there was Terminator in 1984 which also used laser guns.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I can barely even remember any kind destruction. I can remember Bebop punching a hole in a wall once and that's about it, I guess they frequently demonstrated strength by heavy lifting but hardly any destruction.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Which episodes specifically did they cause "enough carnage to be a threat to the Turtles"? And forget killing, was there even a single episode of the Fred Wolf show where Bebop and Rocksteady even semi-seriously hurt anyone? Even lightly?

They caused a huge amount of destruction, essentially any time Shredder asked them to do something in the episodes they featured in. Obviously they can't show people getting hurt because it's a kids cartoon. As mentioned before they caused complete carnage firstly because they were really strong (basically they were mutant heavies). Secondly you leave trigger happy mutants with no brains in charge of an arsenal of weaponry and yeah they'll cause a lot of damage. I mean in Planet of the Turtleoids Shredder just left them in charge for a short time of the caged zoo animals and in less than a couple of minutes the two through their trigger happy recklessness accidently freed all the caged animals by shooting at their cages. Now that was only a small example. The stuff they destroyed in other episodes by trying to destroy the Turtles was crazy! The only way to defeat the two was brains over brawn, a tactic the Turtles nearly always used.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

But the last movie came out in 1983, and was obviously still a huge phenomenon by the time the original cartoon came out.

Then there was Terminator in 1984 which also used laser guns.

Indeed. Star Wars was still popular into the late 80s due to VHS. I wouldn't be surprised if kids shows in Star Wars absence from the screen had lightsabers as weapons.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by pferreira

They caused a huge amount of destruction, essentially any time Shredder asked them to do something in the episodes they featured in. Obviously they can't show people getting hurt because it's a kids cartoon. As mentioned before they caused complete carnage firstly because they were really strong (basically they were mutant heavies). Secondly you leave trigger happy mutants with no brains in charge of an arsenal of weaponry and yeah they'll cause a lot of damage. I mean in Planet of the Turtleoids Shredder just left them in charge for a short time of the caged zoo animals and in less than a couple of minutes the two through their trigger happy recklessness accidently freed all the caged animals by shooting at their cages. Now that was only a small example.

This junk about destruction reminded me of this clip I made a few years ago. lol



Son of Return of the Fly II. Man I loved Raphael for that ep and his impatience. lol They kept saying that "the destruction of other people's property" line throughout the episode, including Bebop or Rocksteady, but then they were like, "We're bad guys", screw that.

The stuff they destroyed in other episodes by trying to destroy the Turtles was crazy! The only way to defeat the two was brains over brawn, a tactic the Turtles nearly always used.

This was definitely the case for the earlier eps.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Indeed. Star Wars was still popular into the late 80s due to VHS. I wouldn't be surprised if kids shows in Star Wars absence from the screen had lightsabers as weapons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raygun

Rayguns have been common in science fiction since at least the late-19th century.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Yes, Bebop and Rocksteady are dangerous and deadly, the only goofy version are the Fred Wolf ones. The IDW versions massacred a whole unit of foot soldiers, wiped out/murdered and entire triad gang called the ghosts, beat Donatello to death and cracked his shell wide open, knocked the combined forces of the TMNT and Mutantinmals around, beat up (Mirage) Savante Romero and stole his time sceptre, and went on a crazy joyride through time and space spreading Mayhem, murder, and destruction. It takes massive bombs and explosive to take them down, and Bebop and Rocksteady have possibly the highest personal kill count on-panel in all of IDW, and IDW is not revisionist or imaginary. I don't give a %$#@! what they were like in Fred Wolf, IDW Bebop and Rocksteady are the definitive versions. And they NOT goofy and silly.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

IDW is not revisionist

About Bebop and Rocksteady? How are they not? They completely revised their characters into things they were never and never meant to be.