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Old 06-20-2018, 04:50 AM   #41
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For once, Mikey is not an idiotic moron.
That's certainly a point in favor of Mirage and IDW.

In fact, presenting Mikey as a moron is really just part of a bigger problem with the franchise. Producers tend to (for some bizarre reason) think that TMNT should be all about catchphrases, gag storms, vehicles, random monsters and pizza, rather than good character development, story and what makes good entertainment in general.

It's the core problem with the Fred Wolf cartoon, early Archie, most of the movies, Next Mutation, weaker 4Kids episodes, much of the 2012 cartoon and looks to be the main problem with Rise. I realise most of this is children's entertainment, and that children are seen as shallow enough to enjoy what makes an adult cringe. But it's still good basics that stick with them and it's sad that the producers don't get it.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:32 AM   #42
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Producers tend to (for some bizarre reason) think that TMNT should be all about catchphrases, gag storms, vehicles, random monsters and pizza, rather than good character development, story and what makes good entertainment in general.
Gee, I wonder what we owe that to...
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:01 PM   #43
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Gee, I wonder what we owe that to...
Marketing for kids.

Even with this, you still can make a good series and make characters not look like complete tools.
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:40 PM   #44
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2k3 Mikey had the problem of being too obnoxious or somewhat annoying as it progressed. He wasn't stupid, but he had that "jerkish obnoxious" aspect of his personality that really ramped up as the series progressed.

Shame really, I liked 2k3 Mikey in Season 1 the most. 4kids kinda had him go off the deep end as it progressed.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:10 PM   #45
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2k3 Mikey had the problem of being too obnoxious or somewhat annoying as it progressed. He wasn't stupid, but he had that "jerkish obnoxious" aspect of his personality that really ramped up as the series progressed.

Shame really, I liked 2k3 Mikey in Season 1 the most. 4kids kinda had him go off the deep end as it progressed.
The same happened to Raphael. Both he and Michelangelo just became parodies of themselves later on in the series. It's like the Turtles never learned their lessons from Splinter and their experiences, which kinda made the whole thing pointless. If anything, they regressed.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:21 PM   #46
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Well now they are both full blown idiots in this new series. Mikey and Raph always get the worst of treatment in TV shows.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:28 PM   #47
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Well now they are both full blown idiots in this new series. Mikey and Raph always get the worst of treatment in TV shows.
I don't think Raph got that bad of a treatment in the Fred Wolf series. He was a completely different character than what he was in Mirage but he wasn't treated like an idiot. He was a funny one-line dropping guy and he wasn't annoying nor did he get in the way of the team.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:38 PM   #48
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I don't think Raph got that bad of a treatment in the Fred Wolf series. He was a completely different character than what he was in Mirage but he wasn't treated like an idiot. He was a funny one-line dropping guy and he wasn't annoying nor did he get in the way of the team.
I forgot about the 80 series. But then again, were any of the turtles not one dimensional in that show?

Well when it came to 2012 and 2003, it seemed like they didn't know what to do with Raph and Mikey. Though Mikey tends to suffer more so.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:51 PM   #49
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I forgot about the 80 series. But then again, were any of the turtles not one dimensional in that show?

Well when it came to 2012 and 2003, it seemed like they didn't know what to do with Raph and Mikey. Though Mikey tends to suffer more so.
I think Donatello was the most interesting turtle in the 87 series. He had an edge to him. A temper. He was more interesting than 2k3 Donatello, imo. I don't really like this idea that a "nerd" or someone who is well versed in science and engineering shouldn't be a good fighter and shouldn't have a temper. That's why I liked 87 Donatello. He had a bit of a temper and had a bit of an ego as well. Hence why he even tried to clone himself in that episode

But yes, the Turtles overall were one dimensional in the FW series. I personally think Leonardo was the least interesting Turtle in that show. He was a bit whiny and boring. Plus, the primary focus of the show being comedy and all, Leonardo felt a bit out of place since he rarely cracked jokes compared to his peers.

Raph and Mike started out well in the 2k3 series, but they just got worse as the series progressed, yes. Mike became unbearable after Battle Nexus, in particular. I think 2k3 series focused a bit too much on Leo at times, which I get it, he is the leader, but it sorta put the other Turtles on the backseat.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:56 PM   #50
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All things considered, Leo and Raph tend to get a lot more attention than the other two as a whole. Especially in the focus on how they butt heads.

80's Don also had the situation where his inventions went awry so many times, the others were bracing for something to get the plot moving.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:01 PM   #51
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All things considered, Leo and Raph tend to get a lot more attention than the other two as a whole. Especially in the focus on how they butt heads.

80's Don also had the situation where his inventions went awry so many times, the others were bracing for something to get the plot moving.
And in the 87 series, Raph's and Leo's relationship was perfectly normal. "Fearless leader" was a bit passive-aggressive, but Raph joked about literally everyone in that show. The closest both got to butting heads was in Turtle Trek, where Raphael told Leonardo "maybe what we need is a new leader".

87 Raphael wasn't usually eager to start up a fight. It's funny how he is so different from every Rpah out there, but Rob Paulsen fit him perfectly and I think Paulsen is part of the reason why Raph was so funny and memorable in that show.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:03 PM   #52
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I think Donatello was the most interesting turtle in the 87 series. He had an edge to him. A temper. He was more interesting than 2k3 Donatello, imo. I don't really like this idea that a "nerd" or someone who is well versed in science and engineering shouldn't be a good fighter and shouldn't have a temper. That's why I liked 87 Donatello. He had a bit of a temper and had a bit of an ego as well. Hence why he even tried to clone himself in that episode

But yes, the Turtles overall were one dimensional in the FW series. I personally think Leonardo was the least interesting Turtle in that show. He was a bit whiny and boring. Plus, the primary focus of the show being comedy and all, Leonardo felt a bit out of place since he rarely cracked jokes compared to his peers.

Raph and Mike started out well in the 2k3 series, but they just got worse as the series progressed, yes. Mike became unbearable after Battle Nexus, in particular. I think 2k3 series focused a bit too much on Leo at times, which I get it, he is the leader, but it sorta put the other Turtles on the backseat.
Leonardo was treated the worst in the 80s from what I remember. They didn't even try to make his character interesting.

For 2k3, yeah just because he's the leader doesn't mean he should be the main character. All the TMNT are basically main characters. Same goes for Raph in the movies. There's no reason not treat all the characters well. The people who make TMNT content seem to only care about putting their favorites in the spotlight. That's not professional at all.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:07 PM   #53
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Leonardo was treated the worst in the 80s from what I remember. They didn't even try to make his character interesting.

For 2k3, yeah just because he's the leader doesn't mean he should be the main character. All the TMNT are basically main characters. Same goes for Raph in the movies. There's no reason not treat all the characters well. The people who make TMNT content seem to only care about putting their favorites in the spotlight. That's not professional at all.
I watched the 1st Turtles movie when I was a kid and since Raph was my favourite Turtle at the time(I only knew the FW series back then) I liked him having the spotlight in the first movie, but yes, I agree. All Turtles should be treated equally. I've written a few TMNT fanfics before, and I've always tried to treat the four Turtles equally. If I was a writer of a TMNT cartoon I'd like to believe I'd try to be impartial as well.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:09 PM   #54
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I watched the 1st Turtles movie when I was a kid and since Raph was my favourite Turtle at the time(I only knew the FW series back then) I liked him having the spotlight in the first movie, but yes, I agree. All Turtles should be treated equally. I've written a few TMNT fanfics before, and I've always tried to treat the four Turtles equally. If I was a writer of a TMNT cartoon I'd like to believe I'd try to be impartial as well.
What fanfics have you written, are they on fanfiction.net? Would love to read them sometime.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question.

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Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:11 PM   #55
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What fanfics have you written, are they on fanfiction.net? Would love to read them sometime.
Most of them were written when I was a teenager/kid, so they're just lost out there or I never uploaded them anywhere. I have on in that website though, but stopped updating it some years ago. Maybe I will finish it someday, but let's not go off-topic.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:19 PM   #56
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And in the 87 series, Raph's and Leo's relationship was perfectly normal. "Fearless leader" was a bit passive-aggressive, but Raph joked about literally everyone in that show. The closest both got to butting heads was in Turtle Trek, where Raphael told Leonardo "maybe what we need is a new leader".

87 Raphael wasn't usually eager to start up a fight. It's funny how he is so different from every Rpah out there, but Rob Paulsen fit him perfectly and I think Paulsen is part of the reason why Raph was so funny and memorable in that show.
I actually like 80's Raph better than most versions. Eventually the "always temperamental" gets grating from time to time. I think a balance between the two would be nice.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:24 PM   #57
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I actually like 80's Raph better than most versions. Eventually the "always temperamental" gets grating from time to time. I think a balance between the two would be nice.
Yeah I like 87 Raph too. When I was a kid I did like temperamental Raph as well, but as an adult now I'm not temperamental like I was as a kid anymore, so it's more annoying than anything nowadays.

In the 87 series, Raph sometimes got angry or upset. The episode Split-Second is a good example of Paulsen giving Raphael a bit of an edge. Raph showed anger in that episode but not detrimental or toxic anger to to the group. It worked well.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:26 PM   #58
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I like temperamental Raph more, if done right.

Same with Mikey, I like his laid back silly nature, but only if it's done right.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:28 PM   #59
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I gotta say one thing, Fred Wolf might have started the trend of making Mike a joke, but that version of Michelangelo is way more bearable than 2k3's version of the character. At least in the FW series Mike wasn't super annoying and hyper and didn't try to force stupid jokes. Nor was he a chicken of a ninja.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:42 PM   #60
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2k3 is my least favorite Mikey.
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