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Old 10-27-2017, 03:18 PM   #1
FredWolfLeonardo
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Franchises with a similar history to Tmnt

What are some famous franchises you think have a similar history to that of tmnt? This can be anything from books, tv shows, movies etc.

One candidate I found surprisingly similar was the Jungle Book franchise (if you can call it that)

The Jungle Book, like tmnt, did not start with television but in book form. The original source material was darker, more complex and entirely different from the material to come later on in both franchises.

Then there was new one version which not only made the franchise popular to the general public, but also bore very loose resemblance to the original source material (the FW tmnt series and the 1967 Disney Animated Jungle Book musical). This version would go on to have an influence on all future iterations in one way or the other and many people would be aware of these versions while being completely unaware of the source material.

Now both franchises have a LOT of different versions, from films, to tv shows, to books and so on, but I'd like to hear what you think are some franchises that had a similar history to that of the turtles?
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:32 PM   #2
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Batman has some similar aspects.

Starts off as a adult comic book (older Batman comics and Mirage TMNT), then is popularized to the general public with a light hearted and fun TV show (60's Adam West Batman and original TMNT cartoon).

Then we have a movie similar to the franchise roots, Batman 1989 and the first TMNT movie in 1990.

Then we get a regular action cartoon that blends the comics with new stuff, like Batman: TAS and TMNT 2k3.

Then we get various reboot cartoons, Batman has The Batman, Brave and The Bold, etc. while we got the Nick TMNT cartoon.

Then we get the modern comics, the current Batman comics and IDW TMNT.


The only difference is Batman had the Nolan trilogy where TMNT bombed out with the Bay movies, but otherwise it is similar.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:35 PM   #3
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Sailor Moon, kinda.

It started out as a manga. Then came the anime in the 90s which was its most popular installment ever and was a bit different from the manga. The girls were less mature, there was more filler stuff and Rei Hino's/Sailor Mars' personality was very different from the manga. Kind of like how Raphael's personality in the FW series was different from his in the Mirage comics. Also, Usagi/Moon and Rei/Mars fought a lot in the anime, while in the manga they did not at all. They basically became like Michelangelo and Raphael in the anime. While in the manga, that dynamic is between Minako/Venus and Rei/Mars instead.

The property also had a live action show like the TMNT did.

Haven't seen the newer anime, Crystal yet. Apparently it's closer to the source material.

But yeah, Sailor Moon, just like TMNT, is known to the general audience for its animated series and not for its source material. Although now that I think about it the first ever material of the Sailor Moon property is the Sailor V manga, which only had Venus.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:40 PM   #4
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Pokemon also has similar origins, where the very first series/generation (Kanto, the original 151 pokemon), or the original TMNT cartoon...generally overshadow everything that comes after it in terms of the general public. Even though both franchises have moved on considerably from their first incarnations for decades.

This is one case in which childhood fad franchises can never escape I guess. Whatever the first series is will always be the most well known, and people generally never come back or stick with the franchise for later on. Power Rangers is similar in that regard too, I never watched much of Power Rangers outside the first series.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:45 PM   #5
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Pokemon also has similar origins, where the very first series/generation (Kanto, the original 151 pokemon), or the original TMNT cartoon...generally overshadow everything that comes after it in terms of the general public. Even though both franchises have moved on considerably from their first incarnations for decades.

This is one case in which childhood fad franchises can never escape I guess. Whatever the first series is will always be the most well known, and people generally never come back or stick with the franchise for later on. Power Rangers is similar in that regard too, I never watched much of Power Rangers outside the first series.
Not at all. All pokémon generations are very successful in the financial sense. Just because many people born around 1988-1992 called it quits after the first two gens doesn't mean they weren't popular either. Pokémon has never lost its mainstream status. It's definitely been way more popular than the TMNT have been since 1992-1993.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:10 PM   #6
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Not at all. All pokémon generations are very successful in the financial sense. Just because many people born around 1988-1992 called it quits after the first two gens doesn't mean they weren't popular either. Pokémon has never lost its mainstream status. It's definitely been way more popular than the TMNT have been since 1992-1993.
Eaxctly, we grew out of it, but the next generation hasn't.
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:17 PM   #7
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But that's what I mean, a lot of those 80s/90's TMNT fans never got back into the franchise in the 2000's or beyond.

They never read the comics, most of them didn't even know the 2k3 series even existed, and a lot of them have probably didn't watch much of the Nick cartoon or follow the IDW comic either.

Just think of all those TMNT fans from 20 years ago and probably only a small fraction of them got back into the series as adults.
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
But that's what I mean, a lot of those 80s/90's TMNT fans never got back into the franchise in the 2000's or beyond.

They never read the comics, most of them didn't even know the 2k3 series even existed, and a lot of them have probably didn't watch much of the Nick cartoon or follow the IDW comic either.

Just think of all those TMNT fans from 20 years ago and probably only a small fraction of them got back into the series as adults.
Except everyone knows Pokémon games still exist. The franchise never went dormant unlike TMNT. Most people don't know there was a TMNT cartoon on FoxBox some years ago and lots don't know of the Nick toon.

TMNT is a small drop in the mainstream ocean, while Pokémon is a big fish. It's not really comparable.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:01 PM   #9
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One reason I avoid making comparisons between Fred Wolf Tmnt and the 1st generation of Pokemon is because the original 151 were the original source material of the Pokemon franchise while Fred Wolf Tmnt wasnt the source material of tmnt.

On the other hand, franchises like Dragonball and Naruto also remind me of tmnt since they started out as mangas/comics but are mostly known for their tv shows.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
One reason I avoid making comparisons between Fred Wolf Tmnt and the 1st generation of Pokemon is because the original 151 were the original source material of the Pokemon franchise while Fred Wolf Tmnt wasnt the source material of tmnt.

On the other hand, franchises like Dragonball and Naruto also remind me of tmnt since they started out as mangas/comics but are mostly known for their tv shows.
Naruto manga was quite big though. It was not an obscure independent comic book like Mirage TMNT was. Pretty much everyone who has watched Naruto and is a big anime fan knows that most anime are manga adaptations, while I'm sure 95% of the global population don't know what the Mirage comics are.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:14 PM   #11
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Naruto manga was quite big though. It was not an obscure independent comic book like Mirage TMNT was. Pretty much everyone who has watched Naruto and is a big anime fan knows that most anime are manga adaptations, while I'm sure 95% of the global population don't know what the Mirage comics are.
I guess you're right, since I'm not really that familiar with Naruto outside of the original tv series. But I imagine young American audiences in particular would've been introduced to Naruto via the tv show which inspired them to get into manga/anime in general.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:17 PM   #12
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I guess you're right, since I'm not really that familiar with Naruto outside of the original tv series. But I imagine young American audiences in particular would've been introduced to Naruto via the tv show which inspired them to get into manga/anime in general.
Well sure, just like most people are introduced to batman, Spider-man etc through TV and movies than through comic books. But their source material is well-known. Everyone knows of their comics books.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:08 PM   #13
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Let's see here:
  1. Started off as a passion project
  2. People thought it would be too weird to work
  3. Becomes a merch cashcow
  4. Owned by the original creator for decades
  5. Fanbase dissapointed with the original creator's revival
  6. Sold to a major conglomerate
  7. Said conglomerate moves forward by treading old ground

... Do I really need to say what I'm thinking about?
Spoiler:
It's Star Wars.


Anyway, here's a less serious comparison. Archie's Sonic comic.
  1. Mirage is SEGA
  2. Fred Wolf is Archie Comics
  3. The FW show is the comic
  4. David Wise is Ken Penders (except for the lawsuits, that's still Fred Wolf and here they weren't successful)
  5. The last three seasons is the reboot
  6. IDW is... IDW I guess... Maybe Saban or 4kids is IDW here.

The funny thing is that I never seriously considered reading that comic, I just find the insanity surrounding to be fascinating.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!

Last edited by neatoman; 10-27-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
What are some famous franchises you think have a similar history to that of tmnt? This can be anything from books, tv shows, movies etc.

One candidate I found surprisingly similar was the Jungle Book franchise (if you can call it that)

The Jungle Book, like tmnt, did not start with television but in book form. The original source material was darker, more complex and entirely different from the material to come later on in both franchises.

Then there was new one version which not only made the franchise popular to the general public, but also bore very loose resemblance to the original source material (the FW tmnt series and the 1967 Disney Animated Jungle Book musical). This version would go on to have an influence on all future iterations in one way or the other and many people would be aware of these versions while being completely unaware of the source material.

Now both franchises have a LOT of different versions, from films, to tv shows, to books and so on, but I'd like to hear what you think are some franchises that had a similar history to that of the turtles?
You literally just described 99% of Disney's movies... They took Grimm's dark and twisted tales and made kid friendly versions to sell to the masses.
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:44 AM   #15
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Frankenstein.

Mary Shelley's Frankenstein novel was very different from Universal Studios Frankenstein movies. But, the Universal Frankenstein made the big splash and established Frankenstein's place in pop culture.

Later Frankenstein adaptations tend to have more of the Mary Shelley story in them, but still tend to mix some iconic imagery and references from the Universal films to keep it recognizable to the audience (the way 4kids, Nick, IDW, etc. all have more Mirage plot points than FW, but have FW references as well for the same reason).

Also, this doesn't relate to TMNT much, but the Hunchbacked assistant in Universal's Frankenstein was named Fritz, not Igor. Ygor was the creepy undead guy that manipulated Dr. Frankenstein's son into resurrecting the monster in "Son of Frankenstein".

Happy Halloween everybody!
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:52 AM   #16
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That actually is a good observation. I realized something similar while watching Young Frankenstein recently. Since Victor Frankenstein never lived to have children, right down to his beloved being murdered by the Monster on their wedding night, of course he wouldn't have had Frederick for a grandson. What that means in terms of if Frau Blucher is Frederick's grandmother, I have no idea. Maybe she was Victor's mistress if he'd already had a child with another woman?

So Young Frankenstein takes more after the Universal version than the film. Right down to making fun of the scene with the little girl and going in a comically slightly direction than the original . On the other hand, it also recognizes the intelligence of the book Monster at the very end of the movie.

(The implication that Igor managed to have a grandson is also...questionable xD . I want to know who was able to look past that mug and make it possible to replicate it twice)
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:59 PM   #17
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The weird thing is that Young Frankenstein's Igor is likely Fritz's grandson rather than Ygor's.

Here's another: Wizard of Oz!

L. Frank Baum's Oz books (and there were many of them, not just one) were very different from the MGM musical film (they were darker, and no "just a dream" BS). It wasn't even the first film version, there were silent movies made even back in Baum's day.

And, yet there's just no escaping the MGM musical. Even unrelated adaptations of the later books end up aping some things from the MGM movie and acting as pseudo sequels to it, because that's how the non-reading public is going to view them.

I'd love to see a real film adaptation of the first book, but movie companies don't want to make that, because they worry that most people would just see it as a weird remake of the MGM "original" (but, modernized versions like "The Wiz" and "Tin-Man" are somehow okay).

Also, like Shredder, the Wicked Witch of the West is considered the iconic main villain of the franchise, but is killed in the first book.

Let's face it, people would rather watch something than read it. It's sad but true, so movies and TV reach more people than books and comics. Still, all of the books and comics mentioned in this thread have sizable audiences for their media, and that's the reason the movies/TV shows exist in the first place. So, it's not all bad.
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:03 PM   #18
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A lot of old fairytales. The idea of fairytales being just for children came somewhere during the late-18th and early-19th century with the Grimm Brothers.
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Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

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http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:39 AM   #19
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Later Frankenstein adaptations tend to have more of the Mary Shelley story in them, but still tend to mix some iconic imagery and references from the Universal films to keep it recognizable to the audience
Ah yes, Robert De Niro as the monster.
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