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Old 05-28-2018, 04:02 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by sdp View Post
Well George entrusted Kathleen Keneddy, maybe they can't get rid of her that easily.
Even if there was some text in the sale contract about "You have to take Kathleen Kennedy" there's no way there wasn't something in there about "... unless the films she puts out lose a ton of money." There's no way Disney's lawyers wouldn't have protected themselves in that way.

And while it's easy to look at the big box office takes of 7, 8, and Rogue One, between Rogue One and Solo alone... those are two movies almost entirely reshot from scratch. The money put into said drastic reshoots count as money thrown away, in any sound-minded investor's mind.

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It's odd how she's painted as the villain, for many years she was praised in the Jurassic Park fandom but man it really does seem like once she had power she put her agenda first.
It's such a weird thing. She came into this with the highest of recommendations and accolades.

TFA? While it's infuriatingly unnecessary on literally every level that it's basically a remake of ANH, it was a beautiful, well-crafted movie in its own right. A suitable follow-up could have made lemonade from lemons, and a third one could have spun further from those seeds. Instead, it's like...

(note: I am giving Abrams the credit that he is self-aware enough to say these things)

Kennedy: OK, Abrams, we need something SUPER SAFE, because Disney is SUPER WORRIED about all these fans being burned about the prequels!

Abrams: I get that... but didn't the prequels make a ton of money? Like, more than the old movies, even adjusted for inflation? And isn't "Clone Wars" an award-winning prequel-based series with, like, a lot of acclaim?

Kennedy: All I hear is "blah blah blah." I've read on the internet a lot of people are mad about those prequels!

Abrams: I can tell. Didn't you throw Michael Ardnt's script into the trash? I heard he was going off of Lucas' outlines that you guys forced him to give you to complete the deal.

Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. Just get it done. We want this to evoke the same reactions from audiences when they saw ANH... in fact, just basically do ANH again.

Abrams: Really, are you sure?

Kennedy: Yes.

Abrams: Just asking. It doesn't matter. I'm a corporate shill who doesn't look much further than the end of my "Mystery Box."

Kennedy: Great!!!

*after TFA drops*

Kennedy: DAMN! We made a lot of money. But... it looks like a lot of people are super mad that we made a remake of ANH.

Johnson: You're telling me.

Kennedy: We're telling you. In fact, you're hired. Didn't you make a movie once?

Johnson: One or two. Maybe you've heard of Looper, with the time travel and Bruce Willis and FAKE younger Br --

Kennedy: Eh, it doesn't matter. You'll do.

Johnson: Really? Are you sure?

Kennedy: Sure. Do whatever you want. Like really, anything... we won't mess with you. People were mad that we corporately mandated the last one to be too much like a remake of ANH or something. This will be great PR.

Johnson: You're sure you don't want to make me pick up all the super vague threads Abrams spent placing all throughout TFA and make them pay off in some way?

Kennedy: NO! That's not necessary. Just go wild! Whatever you want!

Johnson: Eh... I mean, I've got a story I want to tell... but fans might be pissed. Like, you're sure you don't want me to get into how Luke's lightsaber's recovery was a thing, who Snoke is, the political landscape of how the First Order, Resistance, and New Republic fit together that the opening crawl of TFA allu --

Kennedy: GAH! Sounds like politics. Sounds like the prequels! NO! None of that. And we don't even have the loosest of outlines for this sequel trilogy, don't worry about it. Just do you, Rian Johnson!

Johnson: I can do that.

*TLJ drops, financial and professional critic darling... but actual audiences hate it*

In Disney's eyes, they have to be looking at things fairly black and white like this:

1) Kennedy reshot over half of "Rogue One" from scratch. And famously paid another guy a ton of money to ghost-direct all the reshoots, in addition to whatever the actual 60%+ reshooting cost.

2) Kennedy fired Josh Trank from "Boba Fett" after Kinberg snitched him out in the aftermath of the Fantastic Four shoot... after it had been in pre-production for about a year. Who know how much money was lost in the midst of all of that. And now they're reviving "Boba Fett" with another director.

3) Kennedy fired the directors from "Solo," hired Ron Howard and he reshot basically 80% of the movie. That's... a lot of money. We'll probably never know how much.

4) "Solo" debuts and is set to be a 150 million dollar loss.

That's a lot of money thrown away because of what appears to be one person's decisions, for better or worse. At least, she is the person at the top during all of them. She is accountable. If the brand has become tarnished or diminished, she is the one at the wheel.

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I keep seeing that this is the worst performing Star Wars movie but are people forgetting Clone Wars? It's a canon movie that came out in theaters. Even if you try to argue that it's just 4 episodes stitched together, it was never released in that way or counted as part of the episode number of the show.
It counts and matters about as much as Marvel putting out "The Inhumans" in IMAX theaters.

Hint: it doesn't.

Sidenote: Still want to see it. I've been itching to watch all the Clone Wars and Rebels stuff, more lately than ever.

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Nobody wanted Rey's parents to be Obi-wan or Luke or whatever, that's boring fanfiction-tier pandering. The only people disappointed by that are people who wanted even MORE cliche storylines like Rey being the long lost daughter or granddaughter of Obi-wan or Luke or whoever.
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Why would you want that? What does Rey being Luke's daughter accomplish? It's literally the most boring predictable and cliche outcome.
You're playing a part here, the opposing argument well documented in this thread and other Star Wars ones. But I'll take the bait for a second.

They have to. If not Luke's daughter, then something. If Rey is able to lightsaber battle, switch around Kylo's Dark Side mind probe trick, even levitate a lightsaber to her -- all things Luke either couldn't do, barely do, or have no idea how to do, even with training from Obi-Wan -- then we need an explanation here. Since she's not an amnesiac (that we know of), then what we're left is genetics. There's four good options here, let's call them doors:

Door #1: She's Luke's kid. Pros: Luke has a kid, and we get some idea his 30 years wasn't just spent moping around in his failures. Explains her power... a little. Also "Rey Skywalker" continues forward the Skywalker legacy into the new trilogy and possibly beyond. Cons: She's Luke's kid. Universe becomes a little smaller again.

Door #2: Palpatine/Anakin clone with chromosomes rearranged to be female. Pros: Explains her power and her danger, absolutely. Cons: Little bit... random? Hard to swallow?

Door #3: She's Obi-Wan's granddaughter. Pros: Sort of explains her power, though Obi-Wan was never presented as anything spectacular in Force heritage, genetically speaking. What he gained in Force power seems just gained from experience (though maybe the grandmother or direct parents was something even more special?). Also explains vague British accent. Cons: It's boring. Who cares if her dad's dad or mom's dad was Obi-Wan? Too far removed from anything interesting.

Door #4: Immaculate conception via the Force, just like Anakin. Pros: Interesting storyline possibilities. The why and the who and the when and all. Cons: People didn't seem to like Anakin being a Force immaculate conception, though largely people seemed to miss the Darth Plagueis genesis allusion of it and all.

Any one of those four would sort of work to explain how Rey was so Force proficient "out of the box." Because that needs an explanation if we're to take her remotely seriously*.

*: I'm assuming we're supposed to take her seriously. We are, right?

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Old 05-28-2018, 11:48 AM   #442
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What if the Emporer tried to create a clone of himself and Anakin combined?

His wisdom, with anakin's raw talent?

or maybe, a clone with DNA of ALL the top jedi together?

Only this clone came out female, and was considered a failure due to some genetic mis anomaly.

and maybe BECAUSE of that anomaly, it caused the force to mutate somehow and be come self sentient even more than it already is. this causes it to 'awaken' in random people and make them seem fully trained.

hell, all it takes is 5 minutes of brain storming and you can come up with something halfway workable. doesn't make it good, just halfway workable.

KK doesn't care about any of that though. just churn these things out one a year and hope for the best.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:50 PM   #443
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Thinking more about the box office and it's very possible that Solo's entire domestic run won't equal TFA's opening weekend.

1. There was no one saying "I have to see a SOLO movie" when Disney announced there would be stand-alone films to compliment the saga movies.
2. The idea of a SOLO movie was met with a lot of skepticism, much of which lingered up until and throughout its release. Seems like the marketing started much later than normal with the volume also lower up to its release. Perhaps the troubled production played into this.
3. The Last Jedi was---fairly or not---very polarizing within the fanbase
4. It's only been five months since the last one. There used to be three years in between each entry, with a whole generation in between each series of entries. I wonder if it would've been better if they released it in December like the past Disney SW movies.

It's not just Star Wars fatigue either. Deadpool 2 has really underperformed. A coveted sequel to a very popular first movie should have seen an uptick in ticket sales, but it's coming in lower.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:23 PM   #444
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Not to mention people don't want to see Han Solo played by anyone other than Harrison Ford.

And lastly the ending of Avengers Infinity War probably made people feel underwhelmed with watching superhero/action/sci-fi movies for awhile.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:33 PM   #445
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And lastly the ending of Avengers Infinity War probably made people feel underwhelmed with watching superhero/action/sci-fi movies for awhile.
Not me, I'm looking forward to part 2 (avengers) Less excited about SW at the mo but will still watch ep9

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Old 05-28-2018, 04:38 PM   #446
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It's not just Star Wars fatigue either. Deadpool 2 has really underperformed. A coveted sequel to a very popular first movie should have seen an uptick in ticket sales, but it's coming in lower.
I think there was a high curiosity factor in Deadpool 1's box office pull. The marketing was unique, there's the backstory about it being the movie Fox didn't want to make until the leaked footage... it just seemed "different" enough to stand apart from other superhero films. Probably brought more of a casual market to the theatres. With the sequel, alot of that intrigue is gone.

Rey not having a legacy character as a parent was probably the only thing I liked about Last Jedi. I wanted that or her be a Palpatine (so we'd get a Skywalker on the dark side and a Palpatine on the good as a nice change up.) But if we're going to treat her as the Mary Sue she is, then go full tilt with it. She comes from nothing special but is somehow able to weild the Force effortlessly and with great strength. Whatever. Last Jedi seriously killed my interest for wherever the trilogy goes from here so I don't even care if JJ retcons that, which I have a feeling he will. "From a certain point of view..." kinda crap.

As far as Solo goes, am I alone in thinking the cinematography was total ****? No one else have an issue with it?
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Old 05-28-2018, 05:47 PM   #447
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I thought the movie was good, but I think it could've been better. It makes sense why the change of directors might've affected the quality of the movie. There are some very solid performances like the ones from Woody Harrelson and Donald Glover. Plus, Alden Ehrenreich made the role of Han Solo his own but still captured the spirit of what Harrison Ford brought to it.

Spoiler:
As someone who only saw episode of Star Wars: Rebels VERY BRIEFLY I was extremely surprised to see that Darth Mull had survived the light saber duel with Obi-Wan. My brother and I had some conversations as to how this happened and where this film could fit in the canon of the film series. I then remembered that this was a standalone film, but I still did research when I got home and I now have a better understanding of it.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:18 PM   #448
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Deadpool 2 has really underperformed. A coveted sequel to a very popular first movie should have seen an uptick in ticket sales, but it's coming in lower.
Deadpool 1 was fresher but worst case, Deadpool 2 is still going to do better than Apocalypse or Logan or The Wolverine.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:37 PM   #449
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As someone who only saw episode of Star Wars: Rebels VERY BRIEFLY I was extremely surprised to see that Darth Mull had survived the light saber duel with Obi-Wan. My brother and I had some conversations as to how this happened and where this film could fit in the canon of the film series. I then remembered that this was a standalone film, but I still did research when I got home and I now have a better understanding of it.
It was explained in later seasons of Clone Wars and it was weird.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:03 PM   #450
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It was explained in later seasons of Clone Wars and it was weird.
not really. the only WEIRD part was how maul got out of that shute and on a different planet.. that's like saying the emperor survived the explosion of the death star.

But, hey, he is an alien. who knows what trauma he can survive and where his vital organs are. and he light saber cauterizes wounds....so, he didn't bleed out.

I f ind it interesting that when I like a movie, or at least find it watchable.. no drama happens and people ignore it. when I Hate something, oh my god, the world is ending and women are doomed ;o)...
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:47 PM   #451
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If you watch all the episodes of him from Clone Wars and Rebels, and then the comic, it's handled fine.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:10 PM   #452
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It would've done much better in December, people already liked the idea of Christmas Star Wars movies and less competition than in the summer season. Episode IX is coming out in December. Why have this come out 5 months after the last one if they don't have another SW December movie?

No one wanted a young Han Solo movie, at least not at THIS moment, I'm sure in 10 years many people would be more open to it. But we just had Han Solo in Episode VII with Harrison Ford, we just had the first spin-off film being a prequel to a new hope of a story that didn't need to be told and now we get the same?

As I mentioned before if it had been an animated movie I'm sure it would've done better since at least it would've felt different than everything else they've made.

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If you watch all the episodes of him from Clone Wars and Rebels, and then the comic, it's handled fine.
What Darth Maul's arc? I can't agree, his return in Clone Wars was awful as well as the personality they gave him. The fact that Savage Opress or Darth Maul 2.0 existed didn't help.

I still need to finish off Rebels, only watched the first two seasons since season 3 had just begun when I watched it to see how he's handled there.

I mean I love the idea of Maul returning and I loved the idea of him being another faction in the clone wars that wasn't the Republic/Separists but I didn't like how he was written.

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It counts and matters about as much as Marvel putting out "The Inhumans" in IMAX theaters.

Hint: it doesn't.

Sidenote: Still want to see it. I've been itching to watch all the Clone Wars and Rebels stuff, more lately than ever.
I disagree, The Clone Wars movie had the marketing of a movie, it was released nationwide and had a decent run, the movie despite being an origin of one of the main characters in the show never had an episode number. All DVD/BR release box sets of the show never included the movie in it. While it is 4 episodes stitched together, it did become a theatrical movie more than the Ewok TV films are.

You haven't seen Clone Wars and Rebels? They are good but not "amazing" or "makes the prequels better" as some people put it, it's a kids show with some decent stories here and there. I enjoy them for what they are but it's just average EU material, some great thing some horrible just like in the old EU.

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not really. the only WEIRD part was how maul got out of that shute and on a different planet.. that's like saying the emperor survived the explosion of the death star.

But, hey, he is an alien. who knows what trauma he can survive and where his vital organs are. and he light saber cauterizes wounds....so, he didn't bleed out.

I f ind it interesting that when I like a movie, or at least find it watchable.. no drama happens and people ignore it. when I Hate something, oh my god, the world is ending and women are doomed ;o)...
Well the Emperor did the same in the old EU. Yes it's silly but for the sake of setting up cool stories I'm ok with not overthinking how it happened. That's always what separated the EU and the films to me in both franchises, in comics and books and whatnot they're not bound by the same rules so you can have some hokey concepts for the sake of having cool stories.

Having them show up in the canon movies? That's a bit much for most fans I would guess. Lucas did have a good idea with his separate canons. "Film Canon" and "EU Canon" worked perfectly, you want to watch the movies? Enjoy!, hell here's some easter eggs for you EU fans. You want everything to be canon? Go for it and fix any mistakes we may make
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:29 PM   #453
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You haven't seen Clone Wars and Rebels? They are good but not "amazing" or "makes the prequels better" as some people put it, it's a kids show with some decent stories here and there. I enjoy them for what they are but it's just average EU material, some great thing some horrible just like in the old EU.
I admit, my enthusiasm for watching them was hindered when I read about a lot of what "Rebels" has done with... time travel? And a lot weird stuff? Eh...
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:27 AM   #454
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Deadpool 2 has really underperformed. A coveted sequel to a very popular first movie should have seen an uptick in ticket sales, but it's coming in lower.
I'm not sure why you think that. Sequels typically lose at least a little business. Hell, D2's looking like it might not have lost that much at all. This despite actually having competition this time. Deadpool released in a February with freaking nothing for like a month in either direction. The sequel got a May slot three weeks after an Avengers film and a week before a Star Wars spin-off. Still, two weekends in it's pulled half a billion dollars. Which is still ridiculous business in itself for an R rated movie.

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Rey not having a legacy character as a parent was probably the only thing I liked about Last Jedi. I wanted that or her be a Palpatine (so we'd get a Skywalker on the dark side and a Palpatine on the good as a nice change up.) But if we're going to treat her as the Mary Sue she is, then go full tilt with it. She comes from nothing special but is somehow able to weild the Force effortlessly and with great strength. Whatever. Last Jedi seriously killed my interest for wherever the trilogy goes from here so I don't even care if JJ retcons that, which I have a feeling he will. "From a certain point of view..." kinda crap.
I've come to accept that Last Jedi is oddly divisive - I don't get it, it's in my top three Star Wars films, but it is what it is - and get that they might want to walk a thing or two back, but if they retcon that, they're total cowards.
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Old 05-29-2018, 01:14 AM   #455
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I've come to accept that Last Jedi is oddly divisive - I don't get it, it's in my top three Star Wars films, but it is what it is - and get that they might want to walk a thing or two back, but if they retcon that, they're total cowards.
Cowards? How? If they truly stick to "anybody randomly born with Force potential, straight out of the box can do super cool Force stuff, be it lightsaber fighting, Force telekineses, Kylo's mysterious Force mind reading (which we've never even seen or heard about before 7), all with 0 training, or explanation" for any character ever in SW going forward from 8... not only does that fly in the face of everything ever, but that's... ridiculous. And makes Star Wars a sham. And I don't want it to be a sham. Rey can't just be Rey at this point. I mean, she could if she was just this average Force user just barely able to exude a crude bit of Force whatever... but that's not her, that's not the supercharged character we've been presented. We need more explanation. We need something, anything, or the whole house of cards falls down into rubbish.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:10 AM   #456
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not really. the only WEIRD part was how maul got out of that shute and on a different planet.. that's like saying the emperor survived the explosion of the death star.
You could equally say, how Anakin's lightsaber got off Bespin and into Maz's possession, but apparently there was a scene (deleted or unfilmed) that would have shown that.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:56 AM   #457
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I always assumed that that was a giant garbage hole luke and vader fought in. and all those little chutes lead to the outside. I'm guessing the saber wound up in one of those...along with the hand. got dropped into the atmosphere, and eventually wound up all the way into space. where presumably maz found it after realizing what it was.

maybe the same thing happened to maul. who knows.
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:49 AM   #458
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Cowards? How? If they truly stick to "anybody randomly born with Force potential, straight out of the box can do super cool Force stuff, be it lightsaber fighting, Force telekineses, Kylo's mysterious Force mind reading (which we've never even seen or heard about before 7), all with 0 training, or explanation" for any character ever in SW going forward from 8... not only does that fly in the face of everything ever, but that's... ridiculous. And makes Star Wars a sham. And I don't want it to be a sham. Rey can't just be Rey at this point. I mean, she could if she was just this average Force user just barely able to exude a crude bit of Force whatever... but that's not her, that's not the supercharged character we've been presented. We need more explanation. We need something, anything, or the whole house of cards falls down into rubbish.
Do we even know Rey's midichlorian count? Kidding and I get the complaints even though I prefer the family reveal we got in TLJ.

I think those complaints fall on JJ as a writer. He always puts his characters in a place that generates audience satisfaction without developing them properly. He's all about the payoff without the required buildup.
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:22 AM   #459
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Han Solo is bombing but that's a good thing.
No spoiler, just a large image:
https://i.redd.it/pg7wm8a62q011.jpg
Spoiler:




Is the pro-Marvel anti-DC bias really so crazy? Yes, Marvel is doing good and DC bad all around but I do think the media has exaggerated this.
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:26 AM   #460
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Here's another "Solo" fan film:

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