TMNT #104 Preview and Discussion

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

Haha omg, I can't believe that never crossed my mind.

It's literally a genius idea.

[Cloudrunner]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

There is some Leonardo and Mona Lisa shipping on Deviant Art too.

lol there was plenty of Alopex and Donatello shipping as well, despite the fact that I don't think she's ever interacted with him (on friendly terms at least). I guess just cause (at the time) they had matching colors. Shippers are weird.

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

Well I for one will only be happy if Mona ends up with the OC I made when I was 12.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I have no desire to feed this pointless argument, so I'll just say this: you never write for the fans; you write to service the story and the characters. If you write well, and your story is good, then the fans will come. Everything else will end up becoming a disaster.

It's impossible to please everyone so there's no point in even trying.

My approach is sort of somewhere in between, I do try to write to service the story and characters, but I also write in service to myself and what I personally think is fun or interesting or what I'd like to see. I pander to myself, haha.

Obviously I can't (and wouldn't) do any old thing or follow every whim I have particularly on something like TMNT that I don't personally own and involves many other people, but for me part of doing comics long-term is finding ways to stay excited about what I'm doing and when I'm the artist, focusing on what's most fun and engaging to draw. Otherwise the work suffers. I don't usually think in terms of whether what I'm doing is good or bad/well-done or badly-done, the most important thing to me is whether I'm having fun with it or not, and if I'm having fun then other people will too (not EVERYONE will but you get the idea). Yeah, you can't please everyone, but I can at least try to please myself. I've done enough comics at this point to have stuff I'm not proud of or be disappointed in the end result, so if I can just have fun with what I'm doing and be happy with how it turned out even if people don't like it, then that's the ideal result.

About the Mona Lisa stuff, if Alopex wasn't on the table I probably would have gone the usual Raph/Mona route, but when it comes to romantic relationships I really follow my gut and my heart and whether the dynamic is fun to write. It has to have some spark on the page when I'm writing, and sometimes two characters that I initially set out to pair up simply don't end up having a spark so I move away from that even if I love the pairing. I can't force a relationship if I'm not feeling that spark.

I actually never even thought about anything between Mona and Donatello before working on issue 104, it was never part of my plan or anything, but I noticed that when I was writing scripts and drawing scenes, moments between the two of them kept popping up. It felt like something was there, meanwhile nothing between Mona and Raph ever worked its way in, Alopex being present notwithstanding, like my gut never led me down that route. I don't have anything against Raph/Mona, I think the original Fred Wolf cartoon episode is great and they're fun together, but I think a bigger issue is that IDW Raph is different than 1987 Raph and 2012 Raph. Every incarnation of the Turtles has them written a bit (or a lot) differently, and while 1987 Raph definitely has that spark with Mona, I just didn't feel it with IDW Raph. He's a different person than those other versions. I just don't feel anything drawing him toward Mona when I'm writing, and when I do start outlining a scene between the two of them, it always ends up on the cutting room floor, and to me that sends a message that it isn't "right," whether it's not right for the characters or it's not the right time for that to happen, or both.

And obviously Mona doesn't HAVE to be with anyone, she isn't just a love interest whose only purpose is to hook up with another character, from her first issue she's got her own goals and things she's interested in. Regardless, we'll see where things go.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

My approach is sort of somewhere in between, I do try to write to service the story and characters, but I also write in service to myself and what I personally think is fun or interesting or what I'd like to see. I pander to myself, haha.

Obviously I can't (and wouldn't) do any old thing or follow every whim I have particularly on something like TMNT that I don't personally own and involves many other people, but for me part of doing comics long-term is finding ways to stay excited about what I'm doing and when I'm the artist, focusing on what's most fun and engaging to draw. Otherwise the work suffers. I don't usually think in terms of whether what I'm doing is good or bad/well-done or badly-done, the most important thing to me is whether I'm having fun with it or not, and if I'm having fun then other people will too (not EVERYONE will but you get the idea). Yeah, you can't please everyone, but I can at least try to please myself. I've done enough comics at this point to have stuff I'm not proud of or be disappointed in the end result, so if I can just have fun with what I'm doing and be happy with how it turned out even if people don't like it, then that's the ideal result.

About the Mona Lisa stuff, if Alopex wasn't on the table I probably would have gone the usual Raph/Mona route, but when it comes to romantic relationships I really follow my gut and my heart and whether the dynamic is fun to write. It has to have some spark on the page when I'm writing, and sometimes two characters that I initially set out to pair up simply don't end up having a spark so I move away from that even if I love the pairing. I can't force a relationship if I'm not feeling that spark.

I actually never even thought about anything between Mona and Donatello before working on issue 104, it was never part of my plan or anything, but I noticed that when I was writing scripts and drawing scenes, moments between the two of them kept popping up. It felt like something was there, meanwhile nothing between Mona and Raph ever worked its way in, Alopex being present notwithstanding, like my gut never led me down that route. I don't have anything against Raph/Mona, I think the original Fred Wolf cartoon episode is great and they're fun together, but I think a bigger issue is that IDW Raph is different than 1987 Raph and 2012 Raph. Every incarnation of the Turtles has them written a bit (or a lot) differently, and while 1987 Raph definitely has that spark with Mona, I just didn't feel it with IDW Raph. He's a different person than those other versions. I just don't feel anything drawing him toward Mona when I'm writing, and when I do start outlining a scene between the two of them, it always ends up on the cutting room floor, and to me that sends a message that it isn't "right," whether it's not right for the characters or it's not the right time for that to happen, or both.

And obviously Mona doesn't HAVE to be with anyone, she isn't just a love interest whose only purpose is to hook up with another character, from her first issue she's got her own goals and things she's interested in. Regardless, we'll see where things go.

It will take a couple of issues to see what Mona will be doing. After all since her debut in this comic. Her goal was to help bring food for the shelter for other mutants. So we'll see her helping other mutants who are in need. She even helped with saving those mutant children from being taken away from Old Hobbs.

So her heart is in the right place. She'll be working along side Alopex and Donatello in the shelter. So it will be interesting how they all get along in there in the coming issues.

Also IDW Raph is indeed a different Raph then what people are used to. I liken the whole Raph and Alopex dynamic to the Raph and Ninjara dynamic from the Archie comics.

One other thing. When you drew that panel. Did you do it knowing the kind of reactions it would get? Even if it was just to tease those fans? Because some people tend to jump into conclusion way to early if you know what I mean.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Because some people tend to jump into conclusion way to early if you know what I mean.

if you mean me, I gambled and rolled the dice after seeing Donnie and mona starting to talk and raph and al having a romantic moment in the alley. I really hope 105s not delayed.

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

I don’t write stories much, but I definitely get how characters and the story develop along the way even apart from your plans.

For the record, I interpreted Mona’s interaction and putting her arm under Don’s, given how surprised he seems, as a kindof impulsive act on her part. They connected a bit, they were going out to have fun, so she felt confident enough to make a small affectionate gesture.

I sort of wonder about Mona’s seemingly endless wellspring of optimism in light of the Mutant Town situation. She can’t continue her education, see her family who is out of state, and is together with everyone else in a situation where food shortages, violence and lawlessness are very real occurrences. That on top of having your body changed. Her bit talking about how incredible it was and a “Once in a lifetime Transformational Experience” had me raising my eyebrow. I sort of want her to say that to someone who got turned into a lobster! But it leads me to think something about her old life wasn’t so hot and/or she’s intentionally going too hard on the power of positive thinking to make up for some things she’s dealing with internally. Then again, it’s been 6 months, and most people seem to be kindof, sortof settling in to this new life setting and dealing with the reality that things might not change any time soon. The whole arc seems to be about finding the ability to move on, which makes me wonder if Mona being slightly flirty with a guy she sees herself having something in common with is part of that ‘coming to terms with the change’ process for her. I mean, let’s be honest, mentally coming to terms with having those sort of relationships in their current condition is probably going to be a hurdle for a lot of people in Mutant Town for awhile.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Mutant Ninja Anole

I don’t write stories much, but I definitely get how characters and the story develop along the way even apart from your plans.

For the record, I interpreted Mona’s interaction and putting her arm under Don’s, given how surprised he seems, as a kindof impulsive act on her part. They connected a bit, they were going out to have fun, so she felt confident enough to make a small affectionate gesture.

I sort of wonder about Mona’s seemingly endless wellspring of optimism in light of the Mutant Town situation. She can’t continue her education, see her family who is out of state, and is together with everyone else in a situation where food shortages, violence and lawlessness are very real occurrences. That on top of having your body changed. Her bit talking about how incredible it was and a “Once in a lifetime Transformational Experience” had me raising my eyebrow. I sort of want her to say that to someone who got turned into a lobster! But it leads me to think something about her old life wasn’t so hot and/or she’s intentionally going too hard on the power of positive thinking to make up for some things she’s dealing with internally. Then again, it’s been 6 months, and most people seem to be kindof, sortof settling in to this new life setting and dealing with the reality that things might not change any time soon. The whole arc seems to be about finding the ability to move on, which makes me wonder if Mona being slightly flirty with a guy she sees herself having something in common with is part of that ‘coming to terms with the change’ process for her. I mean, let’s be honest, mentally coming to terms with having those sort of relationships in their current condition is probably going to be a hurdle for a lot of people in Mutant Town for awhile.

Some people view there changes as a positive. Because they are given abilities they never had when they were human.

I'm sure most of the mutants based on canines and felines have extra sensory abilities as well as being to see in the dark.

Mona's one ability is that she's able to use her tail as an extra limb. It helps in her defense against an attacker as you see in issue 101.

As you can see. as mutant based on a particular animal. you get that animal's ability. It can help them in there survival.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Mutant Ninja Anole

I don’t write stories much, but I definitely get how characters and the story develop along the way even apart from your plans.

That's one of the most rewarding things about writing: the way some aspects just develop naturally from the "seeds" you toss on the ground. Sometimes they'll even pull you along paths quite contrary to what you first had in mind, true, but it's when you do decide to stick to your guns no matter how much it hurts to write something/someone a certain way that you know it's good writing. One does it to evoke emotion, after all. /rantfrompersonalexperience

Originally Posted by Mutant Ninja Anole

I sort of wonder about Mona’s seemingly endless wellspring of optimism in light of the Mutant Town situation. She can’t continue her education, see her family who is out of state, and is together with everyone else in a situation where food shortages, violence and lawlessness are very real occurrences.

Put it like that, and it almost sounds like this viral crisis we're all going through.

Or - and this is also a very real possibility - she's hiding something. When something seems too good to be true, it usually isn't.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Mona's one ability is that she's able to use her tail as an extra limb. It helps in her defense against an attacker as you see in issue 101.

It's very likely she's also an amphibian now. That's always handy.

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

I mean, sure. But the cool effect of having some new ability would be outweighed by having your whole identity and picture of yourself upended. You’d literally look in the mirror and see someone you didn’t recognize. More than that, you now have a bunch of body parts that are throughly alien. You might slice yourself up with your claws scratching your face. And it’s not always practical, it’s about the mental sense of who you are. To speak nothing of the unknown, can mutants have families, is their lifespan now shortened to the animal they’ve become? etc.

Some people probably got off easier than others, as I said before, I feel really sorry for the people who got insect and crustacean mutations. It’d be like something out of Kafka mixed with Lovecraft.

[CyberCubed]

So is that porcupine mutant Diamond going to appear again or was she just a one-off character?

[TigerClaw]

Another thing to take into account. Most mutants who are furry. They are susceptible to getting fleas like normal animals.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Another thing to take into account. Most mutants who are furry. They are susceptible to getting fleas like normal animals.

I kinda wonder if alopex, sally, or old hob has had to wear a flea coller like a bracelet from time to time or take a flea bath. given bebops hygiene he probably has fleas.

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

Far more preferable at least!

I’ve always wondered if the cold New York winters are a problem for our reptile and amphibian friends.

[Rooish]

Sophie, your art is amazing and astounding. The best the series has had. I love the way you draw clothes, too? Enjoying the series so much. Sally appeals to my lesbian heart. I am, however, looking forward to the Turtles being colour coded or weapon coded again, though.

[puirnaut]

Originally Posted by Cloudrunner

Quite frankly it feels like we've been arguing with a genuine lunatic. I'm pretty deep on the Raph x Alopex ship, but if puirnaut is "Your brain on shipping", then **** it, I'm out.

If you have nothing more to say, then goodbye. And don’t get personal. I did not offend you.

[puirnaut]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

if you mean me, I gambled and rolled the dice after seeing Donnie and mona starting to talk and raph and al having a romantic moment in the alley. I really hope 105s not delayed.

They mean me.

[puirnaut]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

About the Mona Lisa stuff, if Alopex wasn't on the table I probably would have gone the usual Raph/Mona route, but when it comes to romantic relationships I really follow my gut and my heart and whether the dynamic is fun to write. It has to have some spark on the page when I'm writing, and sometimes two characters that I initially set out to pair up simply don't end up having a spark so I move away from that even if I love the pairing. I can't force a relationship if I'm not feeling that spark.

I actually never even thought about anything between Mona and Donatello before working on issue 104, it was never part of my plan or anything, but I noticed that when I was writing scripts and drawing scenes, moments between the two of them kept popping up. It felt like something was there, meanwhile nothing between Mona and Raph ever worked its way in, Alopex being present notwithstanding, like my gut never led me down that route. I don't have anything against Raph/Mona, I think the original Fred Wolf cartoon episode is great and they're fun together, but I think a bigger issue is that IDW Raph is different than 1987 Raph and 2012 Raph. Every incarnation of the Turtles has them written a bit (or a lot) differently, and while 1987 Raph definitely has that spark with Mona, I just didn't feel it with IDW Raph. He's a different person than those other versions. I just don't feel anything drawing him toward Mona when I'm writing, and when I do start outlining a scene between the two of them, it always ends up on the cutting room floor, and to me that sends a message that it isn't "right," whether it's not right for the characters or it's not the right time for that to happen, or both.

And obviously Mona doesn't HAVE to be with anyone, she isn't just a love interest whose only purpose is to hook up with another character, from her first issue she's got her own goals and things she's interested in. Regardless, we'll see where things go.

Thank you for your answer Sophie. Perhaps what you don't see now will become relevant over time. Yes, see where things go.

Thank you all for an interesting discussion.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by puirnaut

Perhaps what you don't see now will become relevant over time.

Spoiler:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Igglet

The day shall come when an army consisting of all 3 Mona Lisa stans out there storms IDW HQ and hunts for blood.