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Old 09-15-2016, 03:43 AM   #81
ZariusTwo
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I was in the trenches also. Dan Slott and Steven Wacker ended up joining the CrawlSpace forums for a while when BND started to take questions and hype up the project, only to be met with a slew of angry fans who wouldn't stop needling them about OMD. Neither took it well at all and Slott slowly transformed into the public relations nightmare he continues to be on forums today.

Slott requested his membership on the forum be terminated (which it was), and he remained a fixture on CBR's threads, where he, I and others who agreed with me exchanged "pleasantries" from time to time.

Wacker hung around the crawl space and actually started TROLLING people, he would up causing so much trouble for himself that the Crawl Space mods actually banned him. It was embarrassing.

More from RYV

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Old 09-15-2016, 12:07 PM   #82
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It's not gone well. A lot of them have made ageist comments towards Dan Jurgens (writer of Lois and Clark as well as Action Comics), and some have said pretty unsavoury things about the concept of the superkid Jon. It's even spilled over into hatred for the new Superwoman title because DC bait and switched the audience with promises of a N52 Lois-led book only to kill her off and replace her with Lana in the debut issue.
Weird. For some reason, I kind of thought that the original Lois and Clark miniseries was well-received. I wouldn't blame anyone for being annoyed by the Superwoman surprise, though. I wonder if DC should've been upfront that Lana was going to be the star?

Course, with both N52 Superman and Lois Lane buying the farm (probably just to allow the older versions of the characters to replace them), I can understand that N52 Superman fans may be seeing DC Rebirth the way we see OMD.

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These people are pretty much a minority group though, given not many people cared about N52 Superman to begin with.
Kind of interesting that comic book companies like to do major overhauls and reinventions, given that the readers who buy the stuff rarely seem to like them.

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The Superman books have been outselling the Spider-Man books by a considerable margin, always making the top ten.
For reference, are we talking about the flagship Superman series or the franchise in general, and from how far back are we going back to track better sales?

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I reckon they could just make Parker Industries it's own alternate world and still go with RYV being the main one.
When you say "RYV being the main one," are you suggesting that the RYV Parkers get ported over to 616, like DC is doing with Superman, or something else, like the RYV series just becomes the flagship Spidey comic, even if it stays in the RYV universe?

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Alternate Spider-Man books always sell big. Spider-Girl was an alternate book (though it had more legit claim as a natural continuation than anything in 616 does presently) and went twelve years...and Peter was barely Spider-Man in that!
They do sell better? For some reason, I was under the impression that Spider-Girl's (and Ultimate Spider-Man's) success and long runs were exceptions, and that they usually didn't do as well as the main titles.


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I just remembered ASM wasn't even in the top twenty in August, so yeah, there's that also.
Is that normal lately, or is that kind of a sudden jump?

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I actually think the decision to put RYV forward has everything to do with how badly Slott's run is doing, not just because the original series was a success (and keep in mind, back when the first RYV series came out, it was pretty much the main Spider-Man book while the 616 volume took a summer break before relaunching).
Maybe. It will be interesting to see if RYV can hold its own when it's not the only game in town. If it hopefully sells well, I'd really like to hear what the OMD defenders have to say, given that good vs. poor sales is a favored argument of theirs.)

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Marvel do not disclose digital sales either, but I've heard some rumblings about that too. ASM is in trouble, and a "stealth pilot" like RYV is required to see if the audience for the marriage can probably save it down the line.
Since Marvel has been so resistant to the idea of a married Spider-Man and jumped through so many hoops to be rid of it, wouldn't they be more likely to try and find a solution that fits within the single Spider-Man setting?

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Considering how many readers jumped ship after it was axed Id say it's a good bet. I was right in the middle of the whole fiasco, and trust me, it WASN'T pretty. Those of us who were Modding those forums were overwhelmed by the massive amount of posts that got extremely vitriolic. If you guys think THIS place gets bad, you should have seen the height of the OMD rebellion. It was nasty. Fans went so far as to threaten hunting down Quesada (I really don't blame them) burn copies of the comic, riot, march on Marvel, etc.... I can't even remember how many forum members either left orvwere banned, butvit was in the dozens on both counts. There was so much anger at the time that when the boards crashed for several days shortly after the BND reboot, many members simply never came back once they were back up. I still had Mod status about two years later even after having barely posted for over a year (they changed the format and that killed the forums entirely) but it hardly mattered because they were nearly dead by that point. OMD did FAR more damage to Marvel than just one book. It killed a lot of the trust people had in the company, and few of tbe later decisions from the editorial staff helped matters.
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I was in the trenches also. Dan Slott and Steven Wacker ended up joining the CrawlSpace forums for a while when BND started to take questions and hype up the project, only to be met with a slew of angry fans who wouldn't stop needling them about OMD. Neither took it well at all and Slott slowly transformed into the public relations nightmare he continues to be on forums today.

Slott requested his membership on the forum be terminated (which it was), and he remained a fixture on CBR's threads, where he, I and others who agreed with me exchanged "pleasantries" from time to time.

Wacker hung around the crawl space and actually started TROLLING people, he would up causing so much trouble for himself that the Crawl Space mods actually banned him. It was embarrassing.
I only learned about OMD after the fact, so I kind of missed out of the initial backlash. I still don't really understand the point of the reboot (but, to be fair, I was introduced to Spider-Man in the early 2000s through the movies, so, from my perspective, Peter and MJ being a couple -- married or otherwise -- is hardwired into the mythos and unmovable as the origin story itself and was/is one of the better elements of the franchise).

I find it really ironic that the most popular Spider-Man iterations seem to be the ones that actually focus on that relationship. RYV 1 got praise from everyone, including a lot of post-OMD fans. Ultimate Spider-Man (which granted, could only show Peter and MJ as high school sweethearts, albeit showing that they were going to be partners for the rest of their lives, confirmed in their final scene), was a hit throughout its entire run. Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane and Spider-Girl were critical successes. The marriage/relationship doesn't really seem to be the hobble we've been told it was.

I don't think Slott is the best writer for the franchise and tends to cyberbully people, but I do think that some fans cross the line when interacting with him and treat him in ways no one deserves. At worst, Slott's a mediocre Spider-Man writer in a dark era for the comic who's immature online.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:02 PM   #83
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For reference, are we talking about the flagship Superman series or the franchise in general, and from how far back are we going back to track better sales?
I'm probably being over-enthusiastic, but ever since Rebirth began in the early summer, both Action Comics and Superman have been doing very well in the top ten and interest has increased in old 90s back-issues featuring that older Clark Kent.

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When you say "RYV being the main one," are you suggesting that the RYV Parkers get ported over to 616, like DC is doing with Superman, or something else, like the RYV series just becomes the flagship Spidey comic, even if it stays in the RYV universe?
Porting over the RYV Parkers would be my preferred endgame, but I was wondering if, assuming it does not follow the continuity of the original series, that RYV can be seen as a mirror opposite to 616, with a similar history only the Parkers remained married.

I sort of see RYV as being potentially this decade's equivalent of what MC2 was to 616. MC2 had the same history as 616 up to a specific point in the 90s, then it did it's own thing. 616 has occasionally borrowed elements from MC2 since then, and I don't just mean utlizing a version of Mayday for Spider-Verse.

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They do sell better? For some reason, I was under the impression that Spider-Girl's (and Ultimate Spider-Man's) success and long runs were exceptions, and that they usually didn't do as well as the main titles.
I was mainly pointing towards those very titles you mentioned since they were the long-runners and focused on elements that fans enjoyed. One was a feel good natural continuation of the original story where Peter reached the next step of his character evolution, and another was the realisation of the long-desired "eternal high schooler that Stan and Steve famously opted to drop in the original run of ASM 33 issues in, which Stan has often been on record as saying he regretted.

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Maybe. It will be interesting to see if RYV can hold its own when it's not the only game in town. If it hopefully sells well, I'd really like to hear what the OMD defenders have to say, given that good vs. poor sales is a favored argument of theirs.)
I expect a lot of spinning to be done in regards to sales, much like how the N52 fans try to spin the positive sales numbers for Rebirth as a string of diminishing returns. Some people tried arguing the original RYV series had the same sort of thing with each successive issue.

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Since Marvel has been so resistant to the idea of a married Spider-Man and jumped through so many hoops to be rid of it, wouldn't they be more likely to try and find a solution that fits within the single Spider-Man setting?
Money talks, and the times are changing. The success of the married Superman has turned heads. I like to think they really want their multiverse angle, prevalent since Spider-Verse, to be the solution to the problem. By tying in the likes of Spider-Gwen and Miles to the main universe, it's very obvious they'll ultimately see dollar signs in a big crossover between post-OMD Peter and RYV Peter, possibly for the 30th anniversary of the marriage, which is next year.

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I only learned about OMD after the fact, so I kind of missed out of the initial backlash. I still don't really understand the point of the reboot (but, to be fair, I was introduced to Spider-Man in the early 2000s through the movies, so, from my perspective, Peter and MJ being a couple -- married or otherwise -- is hardwired into the mythos and unmovable as the origin story itself and was/is one of the better elements of the franchise).
It simply has everything to do with the same old dogmatic dinosaurs that have been in charge for years getting into a stromp Peter grew up, and one hot-headed editor in Quesada deciding to do something about it in the worst way possible just so he could have HIS preferences for Spider-Man furthered. If he were no longer at the company, we probably would have seen a reversal long ago, or one of Slott's proposals to restore the marriage would have gone ahead. Quesada's letting his grip slip a bit by giving the marriage a big boost again, but he still has a tight leash on the main Spider-Man's status.

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I don't think Slott is the best writer for the franchise and tends to cyberbully people, but I do think that some fans cross the line when interacting with him and treat him in ways no one deserves. At worst, Slott's a mediocre Spider-Man writer in a dark era for the comic who's immature online.
Slott's mocked people with autism unprovoked, I think it's fair game with him in all honesty.
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:28 AM   #84
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I'm probably being over-enthusiastic, but ever since Rebirth began in the early summer, both Action Comics and Superman have been doing very well in the top ten and interest has increased in old 90s back-issues featuring that older Clark Kent.
Nice to here that it's a good time to be a Superman fan, if that's in your wheelhouse.

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Porting over the RYV Parkers would be my preferred endgame, but I was wondering if, assuming it does not follow the continuity of the original series, that RYV can be seen as a mirror opposite to 616, with a similar history only the Parkers remained married.
I think I'd prefer the latter over the former. If the RYV Parkers went mainstream, it seems more likely that someone would try to pull another OMD in the future, whereas if they stay in their own little corner where part of the premise is that they're a married couple, it's more likely that that premise will remain intact. (I also generally don't like the idea of events and all that, which one-off series are less likely to get involved in.)

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I sort of see RYV as being potentially this decade's equivalent of what MC2 was to 616.
Oh for sure. I actually took RYV as a spiritual successor to Spider-Girl, but with the switch from the daughter's perspective to the father's to keep things fresh.

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MC2 had the same history as 616 up to a specific point in the 90s, then it did it's own thing. 616 has occasionally borrowed elements from MC2 since then, and I don't just mean utlizing a version of Mayday for Spider-Verse.
I see.

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I was mainly pointing towards those very titles you mentioned since they were the long-runners and focused on elements that fans enjoyed. One was a feel good natural continuation of the original story where Peter reached the next step of his character evolution, and another was the realisation of the long-desired "eternal high schooler that Stan and Steve famously opted to drop in the original run of ASM 33 issues in, which Stan has often been on record as saying he regretted.
While "Ultimate Spider-Man," is my favorite comic, I'm not actually that tied to the high school setting. I mostly liked it because the characterizations felt right and I liked the writing. I actually wish that Ultimate Peter could've grown up, since I think that would've been cool (although I do get that it wouldn't've happened: the comic is close enough to classic 616 Spider-Man that the teenaged protagonist was the main difference).

But, high school is a very entertaining setting, and I frankly think that having a mix of types of Spider-Man stories (teenager, adult, family man) is best, since they each have unique elements that make the stories fun for different reasons.

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I expect a lot of spinning to be done in regards to sales, much like how the N52 fans try to spin the positive sales numbers for Rebirth as a string of diminishing returns. Some people tried arguing the original RYV series had the same sort of thing with each successive issue.
I think sales can be tricky to examine, but in the case of RYV, I think the sales coupled with the positive reviews (pre-OMD and post-OMD fans both loved it; even some of the latter wanted to see RYV get a sequel of some kind) indicate that there's a market for the married Spider-Man.

In fact, I'm a little surprised that it took so long for Marvel to announce a sequel. Other Secret Wars series that were popular enough to be expanded on were announced within months. Given that RYV was arguably the most popular of these ones that got a second life, it seems a little odd that Marvel didn't want to capitalize on the success of it sooner. I've tried poking around online to get a sense of what the thought is for a second RYV series, and the response seems really subdued, given the hit it was originally and I wonder if they hype would've been bigger without the wait.

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Money talks, and the times are changing. The success of the married Superman has turned heads. I like to think they really want their multiverse angle, prevalent since Spider-Verse, to be the solution to the problem. By tying in the likes of Spider-Gwen and Miles to the main universe, it's very obvious they'll ultimately see dollar signs in a big crossover between post-OMD Peter and RYV Peter, possibly for the 30th anniversary of the marriage, which is next year.
Maybe.

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It simply has everything to do with the same old dogmatic dinosaurs that have been in charge for years getting into a stromp Peter grew up, and one hot-headed editor in Quesada deciding to do something about it in the worst way possible just so he could have HIS preferences for Spider-Man furthered. If he were no longer at the company, we probably would have seen a reversal long ago, or one of Slott's proposals to restore the marriage would have gone ahead. Quesada's letting his grip slip a bit by giving the marriage a big boost again, but he still has a tight leash on the main Spider-Man's status.
I suppose. On the other hand, are we that much different from them? We badly want the version of the character we know back, at the expense of the stuff that's come after it. (Not sure where I'm going with this, but I sometimes wonder about it.)

Speaking of Spider-Man marriage boosts, I thought it was odd that Secret Wars seemed to do a 180 on Marvel's dislike of the Peter/MJ relationship. Not only did ASM do the RYV series as a very respectful take on the marriage (and also winding up as a strong argument against OMD period), but the Civil War comic also had Peter and MJ as a married couple (with another daughter character). While MJ and the daughter were not in the story much, Peter having a family was depicted as a positive thing.

Even some of the alternative covers got in on the action. Online, I saw that Secret Wars #1 had options with MJ and Annie watching Peter in action and another showing Peter and MJ having a romantic moment in the corner of an "end of the world party." The second issue had the lovebirds in a scene that seemed to be a mashup of MJ's first appearance at that blind date and the final scene of Spider-Man 2.

Always thought it odd they went those routes, given how much time they spent trying to distance themselves from the marriage.

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Slott's mocked people with autism unprovoked, I think it's fair game with him in all honesty.
I did not know that. That is low.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:31 AM   #85
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In fact, I'm a little surprised that it took so long for Marvel to announce a sequel. Other Secret Wars series that were popular enough to be expanded on were announced within months. Given that RYV was arguably the most popular of these ones that got a second life, it seems a little odd that Marvel didn't want to capitalize on the success of it sooner. I've tried poking around online to get a sense of what the thought is for a second RYV series, and the response seems really subdued, given the hit it was originally and I wonder if they hype would've been bigger without the wait.
The hype is subdued because Marvel haven't been talking about it. Not even Conway's been talking about it. The only person promoting the damn thing besides some die-hard fans is the artist.

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I suppose. On the other hand, are we that much different from them? We badly want the version of the character we know back, at the expense of the stuff that's come after it. (Not sure where I'm going with this, but I sometimes wonder about it.)
Nobody wins with these sort of scenarios, the older fans get what they want but the fear of it being undone, as you point out, remains prevalent and nobody trusts how the company will go about it with writers who may think badly of the marriage (although Roger Stern and Slott did very well when they utilised it), and fans who like the current direction are generally screwed about and told their ten year plus investment didn't matter in much the same way our twenty plus year investment didn't matter.

I'd have included Spider-Girl in this as well because Spider-Verse told me twelve years of investment in Peter there didn't matter because he'd die a petty death, but DeFalco stepped in and hinted the real Mayday's universe wasn't affected, so yay.

For some millennial kids, post-OMD Spidey is all they know, their window into his world, and to suddenly decree he doesn't matter...that they don't matter...yeesh. Just stomp on all the toys while you're at it.

I for one loved the Clone Saga as a kid regardless of what it tried to tell me about Spider-Man, but it didn't take up ten years of my time and I kind of snuck a peek at the ending before I got to the point Peter was "revealed" as the clone and Ben the "real" one. The only downer was them losing the baby, but Spider-Girl very quickly came about and told me everything was alright.

Spider-Girl only took two and a half years to happen. Renew Your Vows took eight.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:16 AM   #86
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[QUOTE=ZariusTwo;1624465]The hype is subdued because Marvel haven't been talking about it. Not even Conway's been talking about it. The only person promoting the damn thing besides some die-hard fans is the artist.

It is not coming out until November, so I guess it makes some sense that Marvel would be focusing on publicizing material coming out now and next month -- although you'd think they'd be trying more hype in hopes of maximizing sales. (I could be wrong about this, but it seems like RYV 2 has gotten some positive reception, whereas I'm not sure I've seen that much excitement over the main "Cone Conspiracy" story -- although I will concede I haven't been looking for it).

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Nobody wins with these sort of scenarios, the older fans get what they want but the fear of it being undone, as you point out, remains prevalent and nobody trusts how the company will go about it with writers who may think badly of the marriage (although Roger Stern and Slott did very well when they utilised it), and fans who like the current direction are generally screwed about and told their ten year plus investment didn't matter in much the same way our twenty plus year investment didn't matter.
That's kind of the way things go. I guess all you can do is try and enjoy the parts of the franchise that do appeal to you.

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I'd have included Spider-Girl in this as well because Spider-Verse told me twelve years of investment in Peter there didn't matter because he'd die a petty death, but DeFalco stepped in and hinted the real Mayday's universe wasn't affected, so yay.
Okay. (I do think that, on some level, fiction reading is about the experience itself, so I'm not sure if OMD, early Clone Saga, and the like, exactly make the early stories a meaningless investment, since they can still be read in the context of themselves. I, for one, find the implications on the stories reality more annoying. )

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For some millennial kids, post-OMD Spidey is all they know, their window into his world, and to suddenly decree he doesn't matter...that they don't matter...yeesh. Just stomp on all the toys while you're at it.
I could see this becoming a vicious cycle. OMD was created since the people in change wanted to recreate the version of the character they knew. That stepped on the toes of the current generation, some of whom will probably be working at Marvel in the future. I'm sure some of them will be tempted to try and recreate the character they knew, which will step on the toes of current readers, and on and on it goes...

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I for one loved the Clone Saga as a kid regardless of what it tried to tell me about Spider-Man, but it didn't take up ten years of my time and I kind of snuck a peek at the ending before I got to the point Peter was "revealed" as the clone and Ben the "real" one. The only downer was them losing the baby, but Spider-Girl very quickly came about and told me everything was alright.
Okay, so "Clone Saga" has its fans. (I did like the Ultimate version, to be fair).

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Spider-Girl only took two and a half years to happen. Renew Your Vows took eight.
At least there was some kind of followup somewhere down the line. Not everything gets a second chance (esp. since it seems like comic book couples that get broken up don't get back together that often, unless of an adaptation, a reboot, or something like that).
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:07 AM   #87
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Just when I said there wasn't any marketing from Marvel...look what we got today

http://www.cbr.com/renew-your-vows-p...style-heroics/


Here's some highlights

Spoiler:


On the relationship

Quote:
Conway: My interests in this book was to portray a loving couple that may have problems, but their marriage is not a problem. Their relationship is solid. There’s no conflicts, other than the normal ones that come up in a marriage. I don’t think that’s something that people have done too much with, so I thought it would be fun to do.

Spoiler:


The world:


Quote:
Conway: Visually, it’s Manhattan. We didn’t take the direction of the “Renew Your Vows” miniseries that was published during “Secret Wars” did of a futuristic Manhattan. The notion here is our world was the Marvel Universe up to the point of “Brand New Day.” Then things continued without that big change. Things have also gone off track in certain ways, though. Some of the stories in our world developed in a different way.
On MJ's powers

Quote:
Conway: Right now, her spider powers are a result of technology from the Regent, where they’re being drawn from Peter. That’s going to cause some problems, because when she draws powers from Peter he gets weaker. At some point, she’s going to come up with a strategy to get her own unique set of abilities. That’s something for further on down the line.
On continuity

Quote:
Conway: The Regent did exist in this universe. My thinking is that after “Secret Wars,” this universe was reestablished, but much of the stuff that happened in that miniseries still occurred. So, as I mentioned, we don’t have the high tech future world from that mini, but the Regent did attempt to take over the world and he was put down by Peter, Mary Jane and Annie, together.

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Old 09-16-2016, 05:20 PM   #88
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Just when I said there wasn't any marketing from Marvel...look what we got today

http://www.cbr.com/renew-your-vows-p...style-heroics/
Interesting article.

I think I like the explanation for MJ being superpowered
Spoiler:
and that the limits of Regent's tech are part of the storyline
.

Nice to hear that they've got a plan for an overall story (or first story arc) beyond "let's just revisit this popular comic and wing it."

Was a little surprised to hear that Annie's still eight, since she looks older than she was in the original comic, and she was just eight there, too.

The looser approach to RYV 1 continuity (and continuity in general) sounds okay, even if an exploration of the post-Regent world in the original comic would've been interesting (hopefully means that classic villains that Regent would've wiped out are around for the fun).
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Old 09-17-2016, 02:43 AM   #89
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If they do appear, they may be given makeovers, considering they're giving Mole Man an altered look, but then the classic villains that appeared in the original RYV series looked pretty much the same.

Who do you reckon the mystery villain for the series is?
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:56 AM   #90
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If they do appear, they may be given makeovers, considering they're giving Mole Man an altered look, but then the classic villains that appeared in the original RYV series looked pretty much the same.
It sounded like Ryan Stegman had free range to reimagine the rogues gallery as he wished, so I'm guessing most, if not all, villains who appear will be getting updates of some kind.

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Who do you reckon the mystery villain for the series is?
Well, both Green Goblin and Doc Ock have had histories of being behind-the-scenes masterminds, but are also super obvious. (Given that some of the 616 comics have insinuated that Norman Osborn hates both Peter and Mary Jane for their perceived roles in his son's downfall and death, it would be interesting to see how he interacts, now that they have a child of their own, but I'm not sure they should pull the Goblin in right away, as he's used so much in the franchise.) Kingpin could be interesting, although I get the impression that he's not as interested in power in the supers community.

I want to see Mysterio somewhere down the line, but I don't know if he's big cheese material. Venom would be very interesting guest-star, too, esp. because of the role he played in the original RYV series, but he seems to prefer working alone, so I doubt he's the secret villain.

I kind of wonder of Hobgoblin would be a good choice for the mastermind. He's got the means to do it and the ambition, but would be a less predictable choice than Green Goblin or Ock. Of course, given that Mole-Man is appearing, it could very well be a non-Spider-Man villain, but I'm having trouble thinking of a likely possibility.

What do you think?
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:55 AM   #91
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I wouldn't mind Chameleon actually, since he had a lot of potential after discovering Peter's identity in the late 90s/2000s that wasn't quite realised (the story where he finds out is one of the best of the post-Clone Saga era and you should read it if you haven't), he never did recover as a character from the beating MJ gave him with a baseball bat

BTW, Conway confirmed on Twitter to a fan that Regent did'nt kill the Avengers or X-Men in this universe, so yeah, it's looking that this is definitely a universe where everything from 1962-2007 happened and then it does it's own thing, borrowing elements from the last decade or so to fit the story.

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Old 09-17-2016, 08:57 AM   #92
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I went by the LCS yesterday and and swapped out ASM in favor of Renew Your Vows. What is the current release date? Reading through the mastermind comments have me eager to read.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:21 AM   #93
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No specific date set yet, but it will be out in November
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Old 09-17-2016, 12:03 PM   #94
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I wouldn't mind Chameleon actually, since he had a lot of potential after discovering Peter's identity in the late 90s/2000s that wasn't quite realised (the story where he finds out is one of the best of the post-Clone Saga era and you should read it if you haven't), he never did recover as a character from the beating MJ gave him with a baseball bat
Yeah, there could be a lot of fun with a character who can mimic anyone, from him impersonating a hero to even pretending to be a different villain.

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BTW, Conway confirmed on Twitter to a fan that Regent did'nt kill the Avengers or X-Men in this universe, so yeah, it's looking that this is definitely a universe where everything from 1962-2007 happened and then it does it's own thing, borrowing elements from the last decade or so to fit the story.
Great to hear that the series has a full roster. I did get the impression that the RYV series is being a little loose with continuity (didn't they say that stuff was generally like 616, but there could be differences in the past?). I'm also curious when Annie was born here. Was it something that happened pre-OMD timeframe (and thus a difference from regular 616), or is it something that happened after OMD timeframe, meaning that it only happened in a timeline where the Parkers rejected the OMD deal, or never even pursued the "save Aunt May" thing.

Also, I'm really curious if Peter's secret id went public like it did in the pre-OMD timeline. (If not, that could explain why OMD never happened here.)

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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
I went by the LCS yesterday and and swapped out ASM in favor of Renew Your Vows. What is the current release date? Reading through the mastermind comments have me eager to read.
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No specific date set yet, but it will be out in November
I'm seeing a listing here (https://www.comixology.com/Amazing-S...l-comic/425423) that issue one's for sale on Nov. 9th.
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Old 09-17-2016, 12:22 PM   #95
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Thanks for finding the date. The day after the dreadful Election Day.
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Old 09-17-2016, 12:27 PM   #96
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Great to hear that the series has a full roster. I did get the impression that the RYV series is being a little loose with continuity (didn't they say that stuff was generally like 616, but there could be differences in the past?). I'm also curious when Annie was born here. Was it something that happened pre-OMD timeframe (and thus a difference from regular 616), or is it something that happened after OMD timeframe, meaning that it only happened in a timeline where the Parkers rejected the OMD deal, or never even pursued the "save Aunt May" thing.

Also, I'm really curious if Peter's secret id went public like it did in the pre-OMD timeline. (If not, that could explain why OMD never happened here.)
Conway said "everything up to BND" happened, so maybe the public unmasking and OMD also occurred but Peter just turned down the offer. This would make the most sense given all the teasing Marvel have been making in the main books to remind people of Mephisto's existence, it's possible this is to prepare them for something in the first issue of RYV that deals with him.

Then again, when promoting the first series, Nick Lowe said everything up to BND happened and it was evidently a completely different sort of story and setting.

There's mention that certain other events in 616 afterwards occurred differently...how much of that is unknown, but perhaps there was no "Original Sin" and thus no discovery of Cindy Moon/Silk? Assuming Cindy existed at all in this reality. They would have to skirt past the issues with the horny phermone attraction the two had in 616.

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I'm seeing a listing here (https://www.comixology.com/Amazing-S...l-comic/425423) that issue one's for sale on Nov. 9th.
Then it's a date then, thanks for the information. I'm off to spread the word about this so people can really get going with the re-orders
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:56 PM   #97
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Conway said "everything up to BND" happened, so maybe the public unmasking and OMD also occurred but Peter just turned down the offer.
How would that work, since the Parkers were essentially fugitives at the end of the pre-OMD run? Granted, they could've been pardoned, or maybe they got Doctor Strange to do his forget spell, or something.

However, if they want to keep the secret identity thing in check (which seems possible, given that the Parkers seem to be living without the fame or infamy that would come from being a publicly known superhero, based on what we've seen), the simplest explanation would be assume that Peter never unmasked in Civil War and that his aunt died for other reasons, if she's not in the picture.

I don't know for sure, but since they're feeling free to reimagine the villains, is it possible that this includes events in the past? The description they provided of how stuff ties to 616 seemed vague enough I couldn't tell if they were stating that everything that happened in pre-OMD happened exactly as written, of if they were generalizing when saying that RYV replaces "Brand New Day."

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This would make the most sense given all the teasing Marvel have been making in the main books to remind people of Mephisto's existence, it's possible this is to prepare them for something in the first issue of RYV that deals with him.
Or they could be setting up something for 616. If I understand things correctly, Peter is not having much success running said company and his step-father is dying from some medical problem that he's been looking into curing. That's vaguely similar to the circumstances that lead up to OMD in the first place.

Now, I don't know what Dan Slott's plans are for the future, but I could see him and/or Marvel choosing to take things full-circle ten years after OMD and have Mephisto make a second offer (regardless of whether Peter would accept it or not). If Marvel or Slott wants to get rid of Parker Industries and reset Peter to his normal life, a second deal would be one way to do it.


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Then again, when promoting the first series, Nick Lowe said everything up to BND happened and it was evidently a completely different sort of story and setting.
Sure, RYV was marketed as a revisiting of OMD and officially billed as the "What if the Parkers' said 'No'?" issue to the story. While that wasn't exactly true, there's an interesting piece of trivia about that. Within the RYV story, there's an eight-year gab between the first and second issues. That's the same year gap between OMD and RYV being published. So, there is a figurative connection, in the sense that if you put the comic together as published in real time, RYV would replace "Brand New Day" and the like.

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There's mention that certain other events in 616 afterwards occurred differently...how much of that is unknown, but perhaps there was no "Original Sin" and thus no discovery of Cindy Moon/Silk? Assuming Cindy existed at all in this reality.
Yeah, we'll have to see if they were planning to take later established info abut the past, or in the sense that comics published after OMD don't need to count, even if they influence pre-OMD.

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They would have to skirt past the issues with the horny phermone attraction the two had in 616.
If they had Silk in it, I suppose they could just establish that the characters tried to circumnavigate it, since Peter isn't a free agent here.

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Old 09-17-2016, 11:04 PM   #98
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I wouldn't mind Chameleon actually, since he had a lot of potential after discovering Peter's identity in the late 90s/2000s that wasn't quite realised (the story where he finds out is one of the best of the post-Clone Saga era and you should read it if you haven't), he never did recover as a character from the beating MJ gave him with a baseball bat

BTW, Conway confirmed on Twitter to a fan that Regent did'nt kill the Avengers or X-Men in this universe, so yeah, it's looking that this is definitely a universe where everything from 1962-2007 happened and then it does it's own thing, borrowing elements from the last decade or so to fit the story.

Heh, I remember that issue. Boy she whacked him GOOD. And then there was that issue when Aunt May defeated him with- cookies..... Poor guy probably has severe mental scars from those defeats.
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:10 PM   #99
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Chameleon knew Spider-Man's identity? I thought only the big three villains ever knew at some point before Civil War.
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:57 AM   #100
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Chameleon knew Spider-Man's identity? I thought only the big three villains ever knew at some point before Civil War.
Chameleon found out right after the Clone Saga ended, he took control of Ravencroft asylum and posed as Ashley Kafka, he managed to ambush and and drug Peter, making him think he was an actor who thought he was Spider-Man. Peter's love for MJ snaps him out of this delusion and Chameleon fled to the Parker house where he tried to attack MJ, but MJ destroyed him with a baseball bat, Chameleon fled and ran into one of Kraven's children, who took him out.

I don't know what happened to him in between, but the next time I read about him, we were in the middle of the horrible post-1999 era, though his next appearance was one of the better stories. Chameleon went through a period of mental instability after that, becoming even suicidal at one point.
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