Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 16: Broken Foot

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

The point of the matter is that he is out of commission and his little money making schemes are vulnerable doesn't it make sense to destroy his foot bot factories or weapon cache and making his empire more vulnerable as for Donnie if Leo told the team then this would't have happened Karai's plan was a good plan but Mr.Seek Victory not fairness thinks its a bad idea for some reason.

No because even those things are destroyed he will only start those things again somewhere else. He will just keep going until he's destroyed the turtles and Splinter.

[ToTheNines]

I thought it was ok, but it felt really rushed. Maybe could have stood being a two parter.

Wilhelm scream made me laugh.

NightWatcher reference was pretty ham fisted. I'll take it though.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

God this episode was stupid, so Karai has the great plan of crippling Shredders empire when Shredder is at his weakest but Splinter thinks it isnt a good idea because of "revenge" nevermind the fact Shredder is going after Splinters family and he will use every arsenal at his disposal.

Yeah, I'm with you there. Pretty out of character for Splinter.

@Aaronardo I agree about the "moral". Zero subtlety. Shame.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

No because even those things are destroyed he will only start those things again somewhere else. He will just keep going until he's destroyed the turtles and Splinter.

Except its gonna cost him money and resources to do it so its all the more reason to do it, hell worst case scenario(for the turtles) it could set Shredder back a few months and have his mutant bodyguards focus on the factories leaving him in the open

[Fang Wolf]

I put the mark of a thing with the new elite foot bots?
The very similar to the Chrome Dome ...(their body)

Yes, Splinter have right about " revenge.."
It's give much pain for others....

[Yoshimickster]

I think its not so much that he's against Karai going after the Foot, but letting revenge GUIDE Karai in taking on the Foot. I mean really, if she didn't have help from Leo, Raph, and Mikey, three COMPETENT ninjas she would've probably died. She had NO idea the robots they were making were upgrades, she just found the factory and was all "Well *CLAP* let's blow it up!" While it was kind-of a hammered in moral, the dude is right. They'll go after Shredder when the time comes, but with a bit more level head than...crazy, obviously mentally unbalanced snake lady, and her enabling witch friend.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Except its gonna cost him money and resources to do it so its all the more reason to do it, hell worst case scenario(for the turtles) it could set Shredder back a few months and have his mutant bodyguards focus on the factories leaving him in the open

It looks like he does have a lot of money, did you see his house last week so it won't set him back months, maybe weeks. He's also got Baxter Stockman and he probably still has Kraang technology.

So even if he's set back a few months or weeks, he can keep coming up with other ideas on how to destroy the turtles.

Also he controls the mafia as well and they will be in the episode Mutant Gangland and they will be using anti mutant weapons on the turtles.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

I think its not so much that he's against Karai going after the Foot, but letting revenge GUIDE Karai in taking on the Foot. I mean really, if she didn't have help from Leo, Raph, and Mikey, three COMPETENT ninjas she would've probably died. She had NO idea the robots they were making were upgrades, she just found the factory and was all "Well *CLAP* let's blow it up!" While it was kind-of a hammered in moral, the dude is right. They'll go after Shredder when the time comes, but with a bit more level head than...crazy, obviously mentally unbalanced snake lady, and her enabling witch friend.

"When the time comes" the time is now if it was up to Splinter, Shredder would've been healed AND he would've had an army of Chrome Domes with him both parties were wrong in this episode but for some reason Spinter was in the right he should've told Karai to attack Shredder from a pragmatic point of view and had the rest of the turtles including April to help her the whole lesson could've been "When having a dangerous situation always tell your family or friends because they can help you" but no its revenge is bad because we are too stupid to see a good opportunity.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

It looks like he does have a lot of money, did you see his house last week so it won't set him back months, maybe weeks. He's also got Baxter Stockman and he probably still has Kraang technology.

So even if he's set back a few months or weeks, he can keep coming up with other ideas on how to destroy the turtles.

Also he controls the mafia as well and they will be in the episode Mutant Gangland and they will be using anti mutant weapons on the turtles.

And guess what money is finite, everytime Karai and Shini attacks Shredder's money making schemes or when they attack his factories Shredder loses money also Baxter needs money to get the resources to build foot bots

[Yoshimickster]

Once again I think he meant revenge guiding her was bad, and keep in mind she never asked for help from him because SHE assumed he'd just say no. She could've given them the reconnaissance she found to help her destroy it more properly, as well as tell Leo/Leo didn't tell his brothers what he was doing causing Donnie to get injured(I forget if she told him not to tell them or not, and am too busy to rewatch the ep). Regardless its also on Leo a LOT, he encouraged her behavior and lied to his bros because he can't keep it in his Shell. SHE AIN'T WORTH IT LEO-find your world's version of Radical and move on!

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

Once again I think he meant revenge guiding her was bad, and keep in mind she never asked for help from him because SHE assumed he'd just say no. She could've given them the reconnaissance she found to help her destroy it more properly, as well as tell Leo/Leo didn't tell his brothers what he was doing causing Donnie to get injured(I forget if she told him not to tell them or not, and am too busy to rewatch the ep). Regardless its also on Leo a LOT, he encouraged her behavior and lied to his bros because he can't keep it in his Shell. SHE AIN'T WORTH IT LEO-find your world's version of Radical and move on!

Should't the mid 40s Jounin who's family been attacked by Shredder offer her help like all 3 parties are somewhat in the wrong but this show is too stupid to tell Splinter that Karai idea was good and she needs guidance.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

"When the time comes" the time is now if it was up to Splinter, Shredder would've been healed AND he would've had an army of Chrome Domes with him both parties were wrong in this episode but for some reason Spinter was in the right he should've told Karai to attack Shredder from a pragmatic point of view and had the rest of the turtles including April to help her the whole lesson could've been "When having a dangerous situation always tell your family or friends because they can help you" but no its revenge is bad because we are too stupid to see a good opportunity.



And guess what money is finite, everytime Karai and Shini attacks Shredder's money making schemes or when they attack his factories Shredder loses money also Baxter needs money to get the resources to build foot bots

Shredder won't give a **** on how much money he's lost, he will just keep going and going insane and be obsessed on destroying the turtles and Splinter, that's all he cares about.

Karai destroying his things isn't going to affect him too much and is going to make things a lot worse and make him more insane on revenge.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Shredder won't give a **** on how much money he's lost, he will just keep going and going insane and be obsessed on destroying the turtles and Splinter, that's all he cares about.

Karai destroying his things isn't going to affect him too much and is going to make things a lot worse and make him more insane on revenge.

Well he should its money that employs a good chunk of his minions and its money that keeps his foot bots manufactured also I don't know if you noticed but Tiger Claw(you know Shredders most efficient Lieutenant) would probably leave if Shredder becomes too unstable Karai's idea while bullheaded and emotional was a good idea and its hell of a lot better than sitting around and having the turtles thumb up their asses and wait until Shredder has an army of Chrome Domes.

[TMNTInsighter]

I had quite a bit of fun writing this review. "Broken Foot" is surely a step up from last week's episode (B-, 3.5/5 to a B, 4/5). Here it is:

An episode such as “City at War” did a decent job of establishing a new character in Shinigami, Karai’s questionable means of loosening Shredder’s grip on the power he wields (the old ends vs. means dilemma), and ending on a dangerous and suspenseful note showing how much this war is just getting started. Some of the things it did lack was Leonardo’s and Karai’s somewhat complex yet caring relationship and what may be the true cost(s) and consequences of winning this war once and for all. Those things are finally touched upon in its succeeding episode, “Broken Foot” while it walks a strenuous line between (revenge) tragedy and melodrama. Most of this series’ tragedy springs from revenge in episodes such as “Vengeance is Mine”, "Tale of the Yokai", and “Annihilation: Earth!” just to name a couple and while it's a guiding force here, Karai has so far displayed herself different from those who've become villains due to it (ex. Newtralizer, the Triceratons, Shredder, etc.) It's always fun when the series explores both revenge and tragedy and while not as powerful as the aforementioned episodes, it still isn't lacking here.

Now obviously, Leo is not fooling the audience with his new look and he wouldn’t fool any of his friends and family up close as well. There’s also not much point to it either, aside from providing a visual meaning that neither he nor his two female allies are supposed to be aware of. He and everyone else may as well be under the illusion of him wearing his same old blue mask and combo of belts and pads while the audience is treated to both a cool visual (and it is undoubtedly cool) and a highly probable sense of impending trouble. Still, the fact that he’s the only turtle to be teaming up with Karai shows how much he still cares for her and that remains one of the more interesting aspects of both their characters. It’s also fitting that one of the spots on Karai’s “To Destroy List” is the old Auman chemical plant which supplied the chemicals that made her turn back to her old team. While Leo becomes hesitant towards going any further with their plans, he still sees the good in Karai’s motivations and believes in her plan of restoring the Foot to a period of honor—or at least what it might have been before Shredder’s reign. Also, the Auman chemical plant’s part in Karai’s arc from the previous season also caused him quite a bit of pain so it’s understandable how much he’d like to take part in this. These things are all supposed to be indicative of the attempt at tragedy ahead.

Now of course, the plan works but at the near cost of Donatello. A cost that could’ve been avoided if only there was just a bit more communication between the turtle family. Not that that should be held against the episode. After all, the tragedy in Romeo and Juliet came about due to a lack of communication and that story is still held in high regard to this day. Specifically, this is the part of the story which blurs between tragedy and melodrama. Whereas a tragedy involves a great person destined to fall in some way, shape, or form due to flaws, an overpowering force, fate, or society; a melodrama (which this series has arguably become the most) meanwhile exaggerates emotions while emphasizing plot or action at the expense of both cause and effect and characterization. Now a lot of tragedies are built on emotions since most of the recognizable titles in history come from either the Romantic era or the English Renaissance (or what some refer to as the Elizabethan Age). One of my favorite books is The Count of Monte Cristo, a melodrama which at first wouldn’t be held in such high regard today when placed in that category. However, it remains notable not only for its revenge and bucking of social norms at the time, but also for providing what most modern melodramas do not: character development (perhaps the best I’ve ever seen) and cause and effect despite some of the proclaimed chance encounters and ridiculous situations some of the story’s critics proclaim. This episode does a mostly good job of the latter rather than the former even if the characters with opposite viewpoints regarding the latter don't come to an exact understanding.

Still, this story fits more under the terms of the melodramatic, especially when you consider the fates of “Vengeance is Mine” and “Annihilation: Earth!” Karai’s tragedy, aside from being raised by an overbearing and overpowered sociopathic father figure as well as no Tang Shen, is a lack of inclusion as well as anger issues and lack of trust shared between herself and others--not to mention the unbearable nature of bad things resulting from good intentions. Despite these flaws; she’s still trying to do the right thing even if the means remain questionable and that's why her plans, whether they will work out well or not, remains something to be invested in going forward. While all these things are on full display here, not only does “Broken Foot” not reach the tragic levels of episodes like the two previously mentioned but it also doesn’t explore the issue of Karai’s ends vs means dilemma as much or as effectively as it should have been able to; instead giving way to a lot of suspicions, accusations, and then resentments between the family in the wake of Donatello's accident. Indicative of this all is the final shot showing that the ideals of Karai versus those of her family don’t end up exactly closing quarters.

[The Happy One]

I think the thing is...Splinter’s fine right now- with living hidden, with laying low.

And yeah, the sensei in him wants to end this, wants to fight it- get rid of Shredder for good.

But he's also a father. He just got his kids back, all of his kids back. And right now he just wants to breathe, just to enjoy them and be at peace.

Like Vicky said vengeance and vendetta are all the reasons why he's lost so much, lost his daughter for years, his wife forever, almost lost Leo plenty of times and, like in this ep, his sons get hurt- people get hurt.

So, yeah, he knows this will have to come to an end soon, through a battle most likely. But right now he just wants his kids.

And I think, in my opinion, he's always been this way. Since season one he's wanted to keep them secluded. I don't find it as a weakness as much as it's the love of a father overreaching the determination of a master.

But I do see where the frustration comes from. Splinter only resurfaces in a mid or season finale to really fight against Shredder.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by The Happy One

I think the thing is...Splinter’s fine right now- with living hidden, with laying low.

And yeah, the sensei in him wants to end this, wants to fight it- get rid of Shredder for good.

But he's also a father. He just got his kids back, all of his kids back. And right now he just wants to breathe, just to enjoy them and be at peace.

Like Vicky said vengeance and vendetta are all the reasons why he's lost so much, lost his daughter for years, his wife forever, almost lost Leo plenty of times and, like in this ep, his sons get hurt- people get hurt.

So, yeah, he knows this will have to come to an end soon, through a battle most likely. But right now he just wants his kids.

And I think, in my opinion, he's always been this way. Since season one he's wanted to keep them secluded. I don't find it as a weakness as much as it's the love of a father overreaching the determination of a master.

But I do see where the frustration comes from. Splinter only resurfaces in a mid or season finale to really fight against Shredder.

Yeah and it was Shredder who did all of that so it makes since to completely eradicate the sickness before it spreads AGAIN, Splinter has a chance to permanently make sure his family is safe and as we seen in this episode them not doing anything is going to make the situation worse

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Well he should its money that employs a good chunk of his minions and its money that keeps his foot bots manufactured also I don't know if you noticed but Tiger Claw(you know Shredders most efficient Lieutenant) would probably leave if Shredder becomes too unstable Karai's idea while bullheaded and emotional was a good idea and its hell of a lot better than sitting around and having the turtles thumb up their asses and wait until Shredder has an army of Chrome Domes.

I think he only pays Tigerclaw and probably Rahzar, the rest of them were forced to join him.

Also he's probably making money in Japan as well, not just New York.

[Yoshimickster]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Should't the mid 40s Jounin who's family been attacked by Shredder offer her help like all 3 parties are somewhat in the wrong but this show is too stupid to tell Splinter that Karai idea was good and she needs guidance.

That's the thing though it WASN'T a good idea, and she re-FUSED help from him. She be stubborn.

On the topic of her plan she probably should've just gone STRAIGHT to the robots, THAN the other two rather than the money laundering operation and chemical factory that gave off her scent. Her attack lacked subtlety, "Go to place, blow it up, REPEAT!" The robot factory halts his army, the laundering and the chemicals were just dents in Shred-head's wallet.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

I think he only pays Tigerclaw and probably Rahzar, the rest of them were forced to join him.

Also he's probably making money in Japan as well, not just New York.

Xever also gets payed and Karai could have her ninjas attack Shredder's money making place in Japan

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

That's the thing though it WASN'T a good idea, and she re-FUSED help from him. She be stubborn.

On the topic of her plan she probably should've just gone STRAIGHT to the robots, THAN the other two rather than the money laundering operation and chemical factory that gave off her scent. Her attack lacked subtlety, "Go to place, blow it up, REPEAT!" The robot factory halts his army, the laundering and the chemicals were just dents in Shred-head's wallet.

When did Splinter offer her help and yeah I agree she should've went straight to the robots but I think making dents in Shred head wallet is gonna hurt him a lot.

[Yoshimickster]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

When did Splinter offer her help and yeah I argue she should've went straight to the robots but I think making dents in Shred head wallet is gonna hurt him a lot.

He didn't offer her help, he let Karai make her own decisions and she decided not to ask for help and instead made a terrible backwards plan. Plus as she said, destroying the robot factory wasn't about halting him, it was about destroying his possessions, HURTING him rather than stopping him. If she were truly trying to rebuild the honor of the Foot Clan, she'd be more strategic in where she'd attack first, rather than let herself be known letting her enemies prepare traps for her.

And I politely disagree, this is the Foot clan we're talking here, they got pockets ALL over the place.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

He didn't offer her help, he let Karai make her own decisions and she decided not to ask for help and instead made a terrible backwards plan. Plus as she said, destroying the robots wasn't about halting him, it was about destroying his possessions, HURTING him rather than stopping him. If she were truly trying to rebuild the honor of the Foot Clan, she'd be more strategic in where she'd attack first, rather than let herself be known letting her enemies prepare traps for her.

And I politely disagree, this is the Foot clan we're talking here, they got pockets ALL over the place.

All the more reason for Splinter the adult should have offer her help he was right that Karai was too emotional in her schemes so he should've told he to look at it from a pragmatic view this is on Splinter's head to and Shredder having pockets all over the place is more reason to dent his wallet

[TurtleTitan97]

That reference to the Nightwatcher was awesome. Overall, pretty decent episode.