Gas prices

[Coola Yagami]

Honestly the only way gas prices affect me is when we plan a group trip to a con or something and I'm chipping in for gas, the amounts I'm chipping in have gone up, lol.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I saw the signs of all of this coming a few months back and took a series of well adjusted financial steps.

I sold my Zl1 for a variety of reasons, none of which were that I couldn't afford it. Basically the used car market was/is on fire at the time and the car was blue booking for 60 grand. I had almost no loan left to pay on the car and I sold it for close to KBB, took the money and paid off a property. Doing this alleviated my mortgage, divested myself of the car while it had significant value and eliminated an insurance cost. All of that after I had ownership of the car for the last five years. So that was one step.

Then a couple weeks ago I cashed in 100,000 Speedway points for $100 of gift cards at Depot. I used those in conjunction with credit card rewards cashback to reduce the cost on a new DeWalt battery powered mower. So now no more gas for grass and my old mower can reside at my rental property now.

Next up is I begin lining up my shots to get one more year of use out of my daily driver (4 cylinder, AWD). By this time next year I should be in an electric vehicle outright without a car payment. Probably the Bolt unless I find a Tesla that I can't walk away from.

You've got to see these patterns and start lining your shots up to grow financially and mitigate the costs you foresee being out of control.

As for the upcoming food problems, the boss here and I are going to try our hands at growing some basic vegetables. I haven't had a garden of sorts since I was a kid with my parents. So it should be fun and maybe by the next few months I won't be buying Tomatoes, Cucumbers and I dunno whatever the other plant that she bought was.

I mean if you have cash to blow and want to waste it on a dangerous "green" vehicle, be my guest but nowhere in the last 2 decades has a $60,000 electric vehicle been something I would want to own and be able to afford. Now being stuck on disability, I don't have any options of saving money. I wouldn't drive or buy an electric vehicle even if someone GAVE me one because they're NOT a solution. Just politicians sh!tting on us little people. They want us DEAD. You e-car won't save you.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Honestly the only way gas prices affect me is when we plan a group trip to a con or something and I'm chipping in for gas, the amounts I'm chipping in have gone up, lol.

Food costs are up, thats because gas prices are up. The higher cost of gas is reflected in EVERYTHING else.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Food costs are up, thats because gas prices are up. The higher cost of gas is reflected in EVERYTHING else.

Food is the main one, yes, though I am noticing other goods and services climbing in price as well.

And with that, I am also noticing poorer quality in food/goods as well. Lots more expired food than ever, for example. Clothes made from crappier materials. Shipping costs rising. That's just a few examples.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by superstaff

It's not easy for those of us who live from paycheck to paycheck.

I know man. I'm not independently wealthy. I just make the planning choices or the hard choices that other people don't compute or aren't willing to make. For example, I didn't want to sell my ZL1, but the confluence of events and value of the car all came together in a way that can't be logically denied. Other people would've disregarded it, but I balled up and sold the car. Hence I'm better off.

The next response could be "yeah but you were able to buy a ZL1 in the first place". But again, that's not because I'm independently wealthy - I'm not. It's because I chose to live by the patterns in the first place that led me to sell the car when the opportunity for it made sense.

It's the same thing with the "pandemic collectibles insanity" when market prices were out of control. I didn't want to sell my Hulk 181 CGC 8.0, but the market commanded that I should. How did I get that book? I bought it for 385 bucks when I graduated college as a gift to myself years ago. I paid to have it pressed and slabbed and I held it for years. I sold it for 5k. What did I do that money then? I put the 5k into crypto in November 2020 and it turned into 28 grand. I took those profits.

I'm not saying that it's easy but the fact is that I make the hard calls and stick to the plan rather than my ego for "things". Anyone can do it but most people don't have the balls or stomach for it.

I think it's really important that I clarify that for the rest of the brain trust here. Not that my patterns are going to earn me any respect from the bottom feeders here, but you try anyway. You know.

Originally Posted by superstaff

My neighbor has three huge gardens right now that she began 'just in case' (though she was paranoid that Covid would be the cause of an apocalypse, not inflation and food/supply shortages....). She has several vegetables and fruits growing from them. However...

Rodents and other wildlife get into them. Her own dogs dig up the gardens. In the winter here, it'll get too cold for any plant life to grow, and for the past two winters, she has had no more stuff growing in the garden patches. On top of that...if the chips are down, and sh*t hits the fan, her fence is small...and most people know (her garden is visible since we have chain link fences) she has a supply of food in her backyard. What do you think will happen?

Yeah man we have the small plants in pots right now and the first thing we saw was that the rabbits in the yard were like... nibbling on the leaves. We are going to need some kind of hardware cloth solution or something.

As for some kind of food catastrophe and people stealing tomatoes? Yeah sure I believe that could happen, but if we get to that point then we have bigger problems that involve other issues than defending a plant with 30 tomatoes that I hoped to vac-seal, you know? Can't live on f'n tomatoes. I mean, even the theft of tomatoes is short sighted, but that's the majority of the peasant-level-population. Being a f'n peasant isn't about money. It's about the peasant-a$$-mentality.

[Andrew NDB]

I wouldn't mind saving up for an electric car if there weren't so many uncertainties. Let's say I save up $60,000 for one, then the battery stops keeping a charge after a couple of years. Am I just screwed, then? Or in 5 years, there's a much improved electric car with better capacity... will I be able to sell my existing electric car for more than, say, $5000 at this point? Will I be able to sell it at all?

Then there's the thing about electric cars not being able to start in the cold. Yikes.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I mean if you have cash to blow and want to waste it on a dangerous "green" vehicle, be my guest but nowhere in the last 2 decades has a $60,000 electric vehicle been something I would want to own and be able to afford. Now being stuck on disability, I don't have any options of saving money. I wouldn't drive or buy an electric vehicle even if someone GAVE me one because they're NOT a solution. Just politicians sh!tting on us little people. They want us DEAD. You e-car won't save you.

Well... I'm not looking to be saved. I'm responding to the trends (whether I like the trends or not) and trying to be ahead of the curve rather than trapped by it.

For example, here's my mental algebra for some of this decision.... consider:

01 Fuel costs, whether it be by conspiracy or nature, are high and given the Washington brain trust, they aren't ever going back down. There will be a new normal - like 4 something a gallon.

02 Trends - in 6 or 7 years most of the cars on the market will be electric. Again, you can like or hate it, it doesn't matter. It's happening.

03 Now do your head math - if you can put your hate for "the system" away do the head math. If in 6 or 7 years most cars will be electric, then your current gas powered car will have almost no trade in value. You'll be underwater and have to go into a new vehicle cold, or you'll be a luddite buying the last of the gas powered cars that you'll be stuck in for another 5 - 7 years now putting you firmly 12 or so years behind, stuck in a gas vehicle with diminishing support in a world with fewer gas stations where everyone is driving electric. Basically your hate for the system is screwing yourself. Don't be a peasant-ass thinker believing you'll be on your porch laughing at people driving by in their electric cars. You'll be there stuck on your porch laughing while everyone else is living their life.

04. Illustrated example of this - I said earlier I bought a battery lawnmower. The thing was expensive. I could've saved 300 bucks or so by buying the same lawn mower without the "power assist" where the wheels spin a bit on their own. But I spent more money to get the power assist. You know why? Because I kept the last lawn more I bought for like 15 years. And I'm not going to be a 60 year old man fighting his lawn more because I didn't buy power assist now even though I don't need it. You learn to look ahead reasonably.

And something else to consider, brother. If you are convinced that I'm looking to be "saved" and that I'm dead meat, then all things in perspective that means that you are a goner for sure. Certainly if "they" get me, then you don't stand a chance. Something to consider to re-align your concerns.

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Food costs are up, thats because gas prices are up. The higher cost of gas is reflected in EVERYTHING else.

This is absolutely all true.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I wouldn't mind saving up for an electric car if there weren't so many uncertainties. Let's say I save up $60,000 for one, then the battery stops keeping a charge after a couple of years. Am I just screwed, then? Or in 5 years, there's a much improved electric car with better capacity... will I be able to sell my existing electric car for more than, say, $5000 at this point? Will I be able to sell it at all?

Then there's the thing about electric cars not being able to start in the cold. Yikes.

I saw a video that debunked this cold start thing very well. I tried to find it, but I can't - I probably saw it a year ago or so. Basically some guy sits in his E.V. through some kind of freezing snow storm in his driveway with it on for like some huge period of hours, measuring the remaining travel life and films it. It was a great video.

I think the problems we read about are frequently.... you know.... semi-singular problems but most people can't parse that out and it becomes "this HUGE problem". Like the "Summer of the Shark" in media years ago. Like "The racists are everywhere!" of the last few years.

I think the most truthfully prolific problem I remember seeing in the last few years was that the original Chevy Bolt had some significant battery issue and they were blowing up and I think that was fairly widespread and real.

[Andrew NDB]

But just about the battery. Like, I know that if I get a new phone it doesn't charge as well after a year or so. Then it starts charging fairly poorly. Luckily, I get a new phone every 1.5 years. What I do not get is a new car every 1.5 years. If that battery starts getting diminishing returns after 2 years or 4 years... I'm f***ed.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But just about the battery. Like, I know that if I get a new phone it doesn't charge as well after a year or so. Then it starts charging fairly poorly. Luckily, I get a new phone every 1.5 years. What I do not get is a new car every 1.5 years. If that battery starts getting diminishing returns after 2 years or 4 years... I'm f***ed.

That's actually my biggest concern as far as value goes. Sure, over 7 years of car ownership you save the money on gas. But then if your battery goes to $#!( the money to replace it is the equivalent in the gas costs but all at once. That's a concern.

But, there are other balances and benefits:

-the tech will continue to improve and the fact is that people will buy the cars with the cheapest battery replacement which will force all competitors to improve this.

-even if it's a cost wash, you save life and time and probably health by literally never having to go to a gas station. And so if I can buy an EV and spend the same amount of money on it over the life of the car as a gas car, then I'm still better off with the EV due to other externalities like the pollution, the interaction with fuel, the oil changes (which I do myself), etc.

It's a rounded decision but most people who think they are thinkers simply go: "HA HA the battery will cost you as much as the gas HA HA!". Yet somehow they never see that other people are just slowly pulling ahead of them in life.

On that note, I don't own an E.V. yet. My goal is next year - maybe even the Equinox which looks pretty great.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Well... I'm not looking to be saved. I'm responding to the trends (whether I like the trends or not) and trying to be ahead of the curve rather than trapped by it.

For example, here's my mental algebra for some of this decision.... consider:

01 Fuel costs, whether it be by conspiracy or nature, are high and given the Washington brain trust, they aren't ever going back down. There will be a new normal - like 4 something a gallon.

02 Trends - in 6 or 7 years most of the cars on the market will be electric. Again, you can like or hate it, it doesn't matter. It's happening.

03 Now do your head math - if you can put your hate for "the system" away do the head math. If in 6 or 7 years most cars will be electric, then your current gas powered car will have almost no trade in value. You'll be underwater and have to go into a new vehicle cold, or you'll be a luddite buying the last of the gas powered cars that you'll be stuck in for another 5 - 7 years now putting you firmly 12 or so years behind, stuck in a gas vehicle with diminishing support in a world with fewer gas stations where everyone is driving electric. Basically your hate for the system is screwing yourself. Don't be a peasant-ass thinker believing you'll be on your porch laughing at people driving by in their electric cars. You'll be there stuck on your porch laughing while everyone else is living their life.

04. Illustrated example of this - I said earlier I bought a battery lawnmower. The thing was expensive. I could've saved 300 bucks or so by buying the same lawn mower without the "power assist" where the wheels spin a bit on their own. But I spent more money to get the power assist. You know why? Because I kept the last lawn more I bought for like 15 years. And I'm not going to be a 60 year old man fighting his lawn more because I didn't buy power assist now even though I don't need it. You learn to look ahead reasonably.

And something else to consider, brother. If you are convinced that I'm looking to be "saved" and that I'm dead meat, then all things in perspective that means that you are a goner for sure. Certainly if "they" get me, then you don't stand a chance. Something to consider to re-align your concerns.



This is absolutely all true.



I saw a video that debunked this cold start thing very well. I tried to find it, but I can't - I probably saw it a year ago or so. Basically some guy sits in his E.V. through some kind of freezing snow storm in his driveway with it on for like some huge period of hours, measuring the remaining travel life and films it. It was a great video.

I think the problems we read about are frequently.... you know.... semi-singular problems but most people can't parse that out and it becomes "this HUGE problem". Like the "Summer of the Shark" in media years ago. Like "The racists are everywhere!" of the last few years.

I think the most truthfully prolific problem I remember seeing in the last few years was that the original Chevy Bolt had some significant battery issue and they were blowing up and I think that was fairly widespread and real.

Your number 2. So fvcking what. You think by giving in and joining the circus, you'll be safe? You're part of the fvcking problem. E-cars will not save anyone or the planet. Climate changes. Nothing mankind does will kill the planet. But "going green" will kill humans. I don't give a sh!t to take the time to read the rest of your excuses for siding with the devil.

[IndigoErth]

I guess it's better I did get a few gallons the other day, now the stations nearby are $4.99, too.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I wouldn't mind saving up for an electric car if there weren't so many uncertainties. Let's say I save up $60,000 for one, then the battery stops keeping a charge after a couple of years.

That's one of my main concerns, how long is that battery going to actually hold a good charge? Companies of any product tout batter life per charge, but then they get weak eventually. And I doubt it would be cheap to even change it in a car.

Plus you have all those people who got stuck on the interstate last winter which brought up a good point that once its dead in that situation, it's dead. No one can try to bring you fuel to keep it going and warm or to get it started and off the road once its clear, so you're stuck with a costly tow service.

I have nothing at all against electric cars, but feel those factors could be an issue, esp in certain places. They might be a better bet for areas that have mild winters. (Plus I'm a die hard Wrangler fan and won't be giving mine up unless it gets so old it can no longer be patched back together, but hopefully that won't be for a long time, or never in my lifetime.)

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Plus you have all those people who got stuck on the interstate last winter which brought up a good point that once its dead in that situation, it's dead. No one can try to bring you fuel to keep it going and warm or to get it started and off the road once its clear, so you're stuck with a costly tow service.

I have nothing at all against electric cars, but feel those factors could be an issue, esp in certain places. They might be a better bet for areas that have mild winters. (Plus I'm a die hard Wrangler fan and won't be giving mine up unless it gets so old it can no longer be patched back together, but hopefully that won't be for a long time, or never in my lifetime.)

You should be against electric cars based on what you outlined. There's some real potential danger to these things if you happen to run out of charge at the wrong time. This is something the politicians love to sweep under the rug during this 'debate'. That, and they don't care if you or I are stranded in a snow storm in an electric car, and freeze to death.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

That's one of my main concerns, how long is that battery going to actually hold a good charge? Companies of any product tout batter life per charge, but then they get weak eventually. And I doubt it would be cheap to even change it in a car.

How much DO they cost? I'm assuming the battery in an electric car is probably the most expensive part in it, and maybe by far. At least to the point where it's not economical to just buy a new battery vs. just getting a new car. But would anyone even want to buy your old one?

Know what I mean?

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Your number 2. So fvcking what. You think by giving in and joining the circus, you'll be safe? You're part of the fvcking problem. E-cars will not save anyone or the planet. Climate changes. Nothing mankind does will kill the planet. But "going green" will kill humans. I don't give a sh!t to take the time to read the rest of your excuses for siding with the devil.

I don't think any of what you've interpreted here. That's your interpretation. We aren't having the same convo because we don't subscribe to the same thought processes.

Buying a battery powered car is just another consumer option. But your POV on it is that it's the next "EEEEE-Villll". 35 years ago you'd have rallied against computers as the digital mark of the beast, but you're on one now espousing your interpretations of world events to those of us who will read 'em.

If you are alive in 20 years you'll be in an all electric-powered environment and by proxy will have to give up on the argument that "going green will kill humans" and the next soapbox will be that nanites that cure disease are an injection from Satan.

It never ends. That's circular thinking, brother. Try contiguous and linear logic instead. Even if you are compelled to vomit out some $#!( about my post here, at least quietly look up that chain of words I said there and try to figure out what I mean. Try contiguous and linear logic instead.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

How much DO they cost? I'm assuming the battery in an electric car is probably the most expensive part in it, and maybe by far. At least to the point where it's not economical to just buy a new battery vs. just getting a new car. But would anyone even want to buy your old one?

Know what I mean?

Well that was my point in that last reply I gave you on the last page. I've read that new batteries installed can run upwards of 10k. But the hope is that across the next generation of car buying (that is to say, the next 5 years of car buying bring us to the next decade of ownership) that they'd get those costs WAY down.

[oldmanwinters]

I have always liked the smell of gasoline. I suppose I am kinda weird.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I have always liked the smell of gasoline. I suppose I am kinda weird.

I always liked it when wrenching on a car, but can't stand it when I'm cutting grass and turn the lower mower and you just suck all that $#!( air right into your lungs, man.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I always liked it when wrenching on a car, but can't stand it when I'm cutting grass and turn the lower mower and you just suck all that $#!( air right into your lungs, man.

Yeah, same here.

[newfan]

There won't be a choice but to have electric cars in my country eventually, I think production of fuel cars will stop here in 2030, also new homes being built from a certain date will have to be built with charging ports (I think I read that right anyway)
As with the upcoming mandatory change to our home heating systems, the green versions cost more, in the thousands.
I 'd also feel better about these things when these things are more established, teething problems dealt with, more parts and people experienced in maintainence etc.

I think of all the cost of living rises the most noticable for me is home energy. I am paying more for petrol but lukily I don't clock up too many miles so it's not as bad as it is for some, I read it's set to go up again over here though.

[Andrew NDB]

I could probably Google this, but is there any sense of how much charging your car up at your house overnight every night drives up the electric bill every month vs. what you'd ordinarily spend in gas?

[newfan]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I could probably Google this, but is there any sense of how much charging your car up at your house overnight every night drives up the electric bill every month vs. what you'd ordinarily spend in gas?

I was thinking the same thing with current electricity price hikes, I don't know enough about them though like how much it costs to charge them at the ports or how often they need charging per miles etc.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I could probably Google this, but is there any sense of how much charging your car up at your house overnight every night drives up the electric bill every month vs. what you'd ordinarily spend in gas?

Its going to cost far more for electricity than fuel used to cost... both have have huge price increases this year alone. Used to pay about $100 a month for electricity, my usage hasn't changed any from December last year to January this year yet the first 4 months of this year the bill was closer to $300 for the same "hours" of usage.