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View Poll Results: Do you think this is a good idea?
Heck yeah!! 51 96.23%
No, i hate the mirage comics. 2 3.77%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2013, 07:21 PM   #21
CyberCubed
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It'll never happen for the following reasons:

1) Nick doesn't want kids picking this up accidentally in the DVD section in a store where it'll have blood and killing.

2) Turtles will have all red bandanas, confusing kids

3) DTV movies are expensive. WB spends a fortune putting out those DC animated movies every 6 months. I doubt a Turtle on would even sell.

4) Without Peter Laird around, I doubt anyone would even influence Nick enough to get this project off the ground.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:04 PM   #22
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This is one of those ideas which I feel sound good only in the abstract, because in the end, I just don't think TMNT Vol. 1 #1 is very good, and I've never really heard a convincing argument for why it needs to be translated, since its two most important qualities--it's historical and nostalgic value, and a context that allowed it to be what it was--are two things an adaptation, by definition, can't replicate. In the end, I could see it going only one way: the producers acknowledge that the original story is severely lacking--most notably when it comes to having anything having to do with characterization--and make dramatic changes to the original work in order to make it palatable to more than a comparative handful of fans. And somehow, given how something like Turtles Forever is oftentimes treated here, I don't think that's what y'all have in mind.

ETA: Or, to put it another way: just what would the film have to do in order to be satisfying? How much can it change before it stops being considered an adaptation of the Mirage take and it becomes its own thing?
It's unfortunate that you don't see the richness of the first book. Issue one, done well would be fantastic. But done right, it's R rated.

It's the best of all TMNT. If given the chance, that's the story I'd do, in a heartbeat.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:40 PM   #23
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1) A good part of the issue's text exists in the form of narration, which is something that works for the written form but doesn't work nearly as well for an audiovisual medium.

2) None of the characters have any sort of personalities to speak of. You can take away three of the four turtles and still tell an identical story. They are stock characters at best.

3) It buries the lede, completely ignoring the fact that it is the story that it is the story of a man who adopted and raised children with the sole purpose of having them become assassins and send them to their probable deaths in an attempt to kill someone they've never met and whom may not have, as far as they know, done any of the things he's blamed for. Somehow, the story decides that this is not worth exploring.

3.1) The turtles and Splinter are not recognizable as the turtles and Splinter--even their Mirage selves are essentially different characters, as the writers rather quickly decided to run as far and fast away as possible from the facts established in the previous paragraph . For obvious reasons, an adaptation that is meant to stand alone cannot do that.

4) It has absolutely nothing to say about its only identifiable theme, the cycle of revenge and how it affects people. It's only after "City at War" that the comic actually decides to tackle it.

5) It is characterized by raw, unpolished earnestness, which came about in large part because Eastman and Laird had little idea of what they were doing and were flying by the seat of their pants. This is nigh impossible to recreate without it seeming artificial.

So here is you're view of the story, edited into how I see the comic, and what it could be:

It is the story of a man, consumed by vengeance. He knowingly adopts innocent children, training them from "birth" to be deadly assassinsfor over 15 years. His only one goal: Kill my masters enemy. The Children, who have been sheltered from the world their entire lives, and are still just "boy's", can't possibly understand what is being asked of them. Without hesitation, they blindly attack their fathers enemy. As the story unfolds, it becomes clear that, the revenge their father seeks may not be justified. In the end, the children have have blood on their hands, and with their innocence lost, are left with more questions than answers.


So far it sounds great to me. Not a happy ending, and not a Fred Wolf story, but interesting man vs nature vs himself. The Turtles in this story aren't interested in saving the world, or helping people. They are children who don't know the consequences of their actions, and that I think is as relevant now as it was when it was written.

Last edited by Commenter 42; 09-23-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:38 PM   #24
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I see your point, but I don't think Nick sees it that way.
Nick would rather try to avoid getting the ongoing series and a Mirage based movie mixed up. Also, their take on the turtles seems a little more mild, as Splinter tries to avoid Shredder, not putting up a fight.

But I would still love to see a Mirage-styled movie.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:29 AM   #25
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it would be awesome!
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:55 AM   #26
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I think if this would happen, then City at War would be the best option to adapt.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:14 AM   #27
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I see your point, but I don't think Nick sees it that way.
Nick would rather try to avoid getting the ongoing series and a Mirage based movie mixed up. Also, their take on the turtles seems a little more mild, as Splinter tries to avoid Shredder, not putting up a fight.

But I would still love to see a Mirage-styled movie.
Very true, and you can't blame them really.

They need to make back 60 million, and a hard R turtles film, as I've just described, would have parent groups up in arms.

But hell yes, it would be epic, if done right.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:16 AM   #28
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I think if this would happen, then City at War would be the best option to adapt.
Couldn't city at war be the sequel? The dark knight of a full turtles Trillogy?
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:35 AM   #29
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2) Turtles will have all red bandanas, confusing kids
That's assuming a TMNT #1 adaptation would be in color, though, which isn't really a given. One could argue that being black and white is an essential part of that first issue's aesthetic--Turtles Forever certainly thought so--and that making an adaptation in color would be just as point-missing as...well, giving them multi-colored bandannas.

Which is the point I'm making, in the end. If the point is to get the Mirage book as it is, into film, you end up with a film that no one but diehards will appreciate. On the other hand, if the idea is to make an awesome film that is based on the story outlined in that issue and takes full advantage of the new medium, then any translation would involve a lot of changes, additions and alterations, raising the question of just how many alterations y'all are willing to take.

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So here is you're view of the story, edited into how I see the comic, and what it could be:

It is the story of a man, consumed by vengeance. He knowingly adopts innocent children, training them from "birth" to be deadly assassinsfor over 15 years. His only one goal: Kill my masters enemy. The Children, who have been sheltered from the world their entire lives, and are still just "boy's", can't possibly understand what is being asked of them. Without hesitation, they blindly attack their fathers enemy. As the story unfolds, it becomes clear that, the revenge their father seeks may not be justified. In the end, the children have have blood on their hands, and with their innocence lost, are left with more questions than answers.


So far it sounds great to me. Not a happy ending, and not a Fred Wolf story, but interesting man vs nature vs himself. The Turtles in this story aren't interested in saving the world, or helping people. They are children who don't know the consequences of their actions, and that I think is as relevant now as it was when it was written.
And that may in fact be a quite interesting story. But here's the thing: it wouldn't be TMNT, Vol. 1 #1, which stops just after the Shredder is killed, doesn't deal at all with the ethics or morality of the events that transpire, and doesn't allow the turtles enough character to actually question their actions. It'd be something different, which brings me back to the point that what y'all say you want and what you actually want are two different things. Or alternatively, that you want one product to do two mutually exclusive jobs.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
It'll never happen for the following reasons:

1) Nick doesn't want kids picking this up accidentally in the DVD section in a store where it'll have blood and killing.

2) Turtles will have all red bandanas, confusing kids

3) DTV movies are expensive. WB spends a fortune putting out those DC animated movies every 6 months. I doubt a Turtle on would even sell.

4) Without Peter Laird around, I doubt anyone would even influence Nick enough to get this project off the ground.
1) That is what the rating system is for my friend. Besides, what's to stop kids from picking up animated movies like The Dark Knight Returns or Superman/Batman: Public Enemies.

2) I'm sure those who are puzzled by this matter will look it up on the internet.

3) So does Marvel. With all do respect, this answer sort of contradicts your confusing kids explanation. If a TMNT film won't sell then there would no one, not even kids, who'd want to buy it.

4) This is where I feel that the Ninja Turtles community should speak up their piece to Viacom on this matter.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:10 AM   #31
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Couldn't city at war be the sequel? The dark knight of a full turtles Trillogy?
First movie about #1, maybe also dipping into the Leonardo special and #11.

Second movie about Return to New York.

Third movie about City at War.

Seems a no-brainer to me.

The #1 adaptation didn't happen because Peter Laird said that Gary Richardson talked him out of it at the last minute and it'll never happen now because while Nickelodeon is more or less OK with re-releasing old Mirage material via IDW, actually producing brand new Mirage or Mirage-esque material does not appear to be any part of their game plan whatsoever.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:41 AM   #32
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First movie about #1, maybe also dipping into the Leonardo special and #11.
Yeah, that'd be important for showing that the violence the Turtles commit has consequences for them.

But yeah, while I'd also love to watch that, I'd also be shocked if it ever actually happened.

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1)what's to stop kids from picking up animated movies like The Dark Knight Returns or Superman/Batman: Public Enemies.
This morning, I picked up an animated movie in the children's section that I happen to know had a few moderately graphic deaths.

Naturally I had to buy it to protect the children.

They're our future, you know.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:00 PM   #33
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That's assuming a TMNT #1 adaptation would be in color, though, which isn't really a given. One could argue that being black and white is an essential part of that first issue's aesthetic--Turtles Forever certainly thought so--and that making an adaptation in color would be just as point-missing as...well, giving them multi-colored bandannas.
What they could do is have it in black and white, but the blood and bandanas in red
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:09 PM   #34
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What they could do is have it in black and white, but the blood and bandanas in red
That's how I'd like to see it myself.

EDIT: Anyone else find it ironic the one vote against a Mirage styled movie is called Source Material?
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:20 PM   #35
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That's how I'd like to see it myself.

EDIT: Anyone else find it ironic the one vote against a Mirage styled movie is called Source Material?
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:47 PM   #36
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And that may in fact be a quite interesting story. But here's the thing: it wouldn't be TMNT, Vol. 1 #1, which stops just after the Shredder is killed, doesn't deal at all with the ethics or morality of the events that transpire, and doesn't allow the turtles enough character to actually question their actions. It'd be something different, which brings me back to the point that what y'all say you want and what you actually want are two different things. Or alternatively, that you want one product to do two mutually exclusive jobs.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is what I felt i read. it's not fleshed out, but I felt it was implied.

My view is simply that Vol1#1 was the story. Everything written after that was an attempt to build on that story, extrapolate from it new ideas, etc. But it Is written as a single short story, without the foresight of what it would become.

To me, it's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. A strange story of natures revenge against man.

maybe you are correct that certain elements may need to be teased out, but that comes with the territory of transitioning media from one form to the next.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:08 PM   #37
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First movie about #1, maybe also dipping into the Leonardo special and #11.

Second movie about Return to New York.

Third movie about City at War.

Seems a no-brainer to me.

The #1 adaptation didn't happen because Peter Laird said that Gary Richardson talked him out of it at the last minute and it'll never happen now because while Nickelodeon is more or less OK with re-releasing old Mirage material via IDW, actually producing brand new Mirage or Mirage-esque material does not appear to be any part of their game plan whatsoever.
Agreed.

Where did you read that Richardson talked him out of it?
I'd love to know the details.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:33 AM   #38
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I'd be all over this dvd. totally game for this idea
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #39
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I would love for them to make TMNT comic based DVD's ala Blade.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:28 PM   #40
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First movie about #1, maybe also dipping into the Leonardo special and #11.

Second movie about Return to New York.

Third movie about City at War.
These would all need to be substantially fleshed out in order to work though.

The problem with the truncated, all-Foot, all-the-time structure, as it has always been, is that we need to actually meet and learn about these characters to care about what happens to them at all in "Return to New York" and "City at War." Not to say the least about Casey and April, and how paltry the last arc would feel without their presence. The importance of the time away at Northampton, along with several of the guest-artist era stories, really can't be overstated.

The sequence of adaptations above is a perfect recipe if you just want some "bang, smash" action and something reasonably approximating the source material, a la most of DC's animated video offerings. But if that's the route we're talking, I'd rather just never see the project come to light.

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3) It buries the lede, completely ignoring the fact that it is the story that it is the story of a man who adopted and raised children with the sole purpose of having them become assassins and send them to their probable deaths in an attempt to kill someone they've never met and whom may not have, as far as they know, done any of the things he's blamed for. Somehow, the story decides that this is not worth exploring.
Man, are you me?

It's not only the idea of a "man" sending his adopted children out to complete his blood feud. It's the extra layer of his being a rat, something with so myopic a world-view before his mutation and so capable of misunderstanding and abusing the credos he lives by, that makes the story that much more interesting. And that's an idea not played on until Zulli's out-of-continuity "Soul's Winter," and subsequently "City at War" and several Tales Vol. 2 entries.

Anyway, for this and all the other reasons you've stated, I've always felt the perfect start for any Mirage adaptation would actually be immediately after the Turtles have killed the Shredder. That's where the story really begins; he's just the prologue. He's the pre-music James Bond intro sequence.

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