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Old 11-23-2019, 11:50 PM   #1
snake
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Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

So, I don't make a lot of posts here anymore. I still browse, but I don't engage as much as I used to, or like to. I'm not sure what it is, but I've been disinterested and disappointed with the recent handling of the TMNT, and I think its effected my interest.

I've been a lifelong fan. The 2k12 era was a shining beacon of hope for a lot of us here, myself included. The new show was passable, the IDW comic (at the time) was excellent, and there seemed to be actual interest in the property again. Now, the Platinum Dunes movie absolutely killed all chances of a full blown TMNT renaissance, but we were pretty damn close.

Still, it's all over now. The public has- for the most part- moved on. I should say that I love what I've seen from Rise. It's new, different, and beautifully animated. Rise is what I've been asking for out of new incarnations for years- something different. Unfortunately, most of the fandom has rejected Rise (probably because they're missing the point of that show entirely), and Nick doesn't seem to care too much about it either. It's disheartening to see this happen to a show that has so much heart put into it.

IDW, I've personally felt was in decline following #50. The bloated cast, lack of outlets to tell stories, and overall "eh"ness of the recent arcs have basically reduced by interest in the book. I haven't even read 90-100 yet. It's a shame, because I really enjoyed everything up to #50, and can reread that any day. They've already cemented themselves in my head as classic comics. Jennika is cool, and makes me want to pick up the book again, but I'm afraid she'll just get lost in the character shuffle, like the Turtles themselves have been.

The chances of a new film are in the realm of "not happening", new video games is a joke, and I doubt Nick is going to make another show anytime soon after Rise bombed. It seems that the only area of the fandom that is getting anything are the array of cool toys coming out from Super7 and NECA, among others. Thank god Playmates opened up the license. Unfortunately, I don't have the space or cash to collect these, but I'm happy they're being made. Though, this all leads to one startling conclusion.

The future of the TMNT will forever be the past. Tied to that godforsaken sh*tty cartoon from the 80s, we will never get something innovative and new again. They tried, and Rise failed. Expect whatever the next incarnation is to be a full on remake of the "retro" TMNT, because that's what sells, and that's what the public knows and likes. Such is the sad state of TMNT from it's inception- so much potential, but hindered because no one outside this forum even cares enough to do anything about it. The people who care about this franchise outside of being a Hot Topic T-Shirt or a wacky fixture of the 80s and 90s are a minority. In fact, they're all probably here, and that's how it's going to be in the future as well. I give IDW a quiet death at 150, and then it's nothing but OT shilling until it doesn't sell anymore.

I'm not sure how it got to this point, but I just don't care anymore. I realized this entire franchise is now a corporate vehicle for recreating the toy sales in the 80s and 90s, and that's all it will ever be. Does anyone else find their interest dwindling? Would any of you actually care about the TMNT if not for this forum?
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:01 AM   #2
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I probably wouldn't. I haven't really cared much since the Nick buyout. Nothing they've put out has appealed to me and I don't see that changing.

I'm sure it's partly them and partly me. I get that they're forever going to aim only at kids, and that's their prerogative, but I've said before that I could only ever get excited again about a TMNT product that's in the vein of the 1990 movie. It's the only thing about the brand that's consistently held my interest and brought me joy, everything else I either don't like or have to be in the mood for, nowadays.

That's apparently my preferred "flavor" of TMNT, and we're never getting any more of that, so yeah, I kind of don't really care anymore.
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:02 AM   #3
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I've never lost hope. For me, each version of TMNT is just more TMNT for me to enjoy. Each one will be different, each one will do things that have been done before, and each one brings something new to the table. There isn't a single version of TMNT that I dislike. Even if we can mostly agree that TMNT III is a bad movie, for example, I still watch it and get some enjoyment out of it. I guess I'm sort of a passive fan. Like, I've read every comic and seen every show and movie, but I never hate what the new ones do. I mean sure, there are individual things I may not like, but I don't let that ruin my overall enjoyment. I just roll with it. I accept it for what it is and see what it will do, and allow myself to get pulled along for the ride. I think every version of TMNT is pretty good in its own way. I have my favorites, sure. But that's never going to stop me from engaging with the new one, even if it's as far away from my favorite TMNT as it can possibly be. Even if the motivation is to sell toys, who cares? There have been some pretty great shows that resulted from a toy selling standpoint. If you don't look at the big picture, the cynical whys behind each show or comic, and just take each version as what it is in itself, you can always find something to enjoy. I know some people have a favorite and swear by it, and that's fine if you do. I've always felt like that position makes less sense, because then you're always dissatisfied and yearning for something that isn't anymore. Better to take what comes and find whatever enjoyment you can rather than cling to what was. Anyways, those are my thoughts on the matter.
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:00 AM   #4
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I guess the IDW Comics and Rise of the TMNT will change the franchise forever, with totally changing so much of the backgrounds for the characters.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:15 AM   #5
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Itís unfortunate you donít see the upside. Turtles has been, and continues to be a brand people of a certain age, remember with great love. Today, thereís more content than ever, especially with tick tock, instagram, youtube, and gaming.
Most of them, donít care for turtles, anymore than they care for Star Wars. Pushing this on them, while ignoring the established fan base, who is of age to enjoy a sci fi adventure series written for adults, is asinine. Joker did it, and to an extent Venom did as well. Game of Thrones, The Boys, and now Watchmen and Mandelorian. All for adults, if written slightly younger.
Turtles should have a chance, to be done properly, not a goofy kids show.
The fans are ready, and have been waiting for decades.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:30 AM   #6
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I guess the IDW Comics and Rise of the TMNT will change the franchise forever, with totally changing so much of the backgrounds for the characters.
This Iíd agree with a bit, though I honestly donít like much of what was changed, especially where Donnie is concerned...

That in mind, while I disagree with the OP about Rise and how popular it is (I even have at least two friends outside the fandom praising it), I do agree with the whole point of this thread: I feel a bit disillusioned as well. I guess for me, the disillusionment was in part because of fandom drama, but moreso because of the current state of the franchise itself: my opinion on Rise aside, I do have my own concerns about the IDW comics as well, though the Batman vs TMNT movie was overall great to me.

I also agree with the concern shared by some here that most people only care about the 80s cartoon, which is really frustrating to me not only because it wasnít its only era, let alone the first ever (thatís reserved for the Mirage comics), but also because of how much better some of the other eras were, particularly 2003 and, to a lesser extent, 2012 imo.
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:40 AM   #7
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Wait, they put a lot of heart into the series? I must have missed something than, why would they make fun of Leo fans if they did? They feel like they know what makes the fandom tick when that's not true at all. Animation can be pretty at times but other than that I'm not feeling it. I loved the 2012 and 2003 series though, I heard they are making another series after Rise ends which I guess from word going around is getting canned when the second season ends. I heard they are going to focus more on the 80s type version but hopefully they just mean having it return to the original formula not this Rise mess.
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:58 AM   #8
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While I was excited about Nick initially buying the franchise, I tried watching a few of the first episodes back in 2012-2013 and it just didn't do much for me. And let's not forget the Bay monstrosities. Platinum Dunes take on TMNT pretty much killed my love for the property.

At this point TMNT has gotten to a point where I can't even tell what it is anymore. Back in 2009 there were already significant differences between versions, but it was still easy to tell what TMNT was about and every take on the property resonated with me to a certain degree, except for The Next Mutation, that is, but that crap left zero legacy or permanent scars in the property. If anything I thought it would have been a good lesson for people to learn not to do something lousy with the Turtles again... but clearly people don't learn, and the Bay turds topped it as the worst Turtles thing ever. And sadly, it made more money and was more successful. It's one thing if the cartoons don't appeal you, but when the live action movies are worse then you just lose motivation.

You see, I grew up watching reruns of the FW series in the late 90s and early 2000s. Then I watched the first movie when I was 11-12 or so and 2k3 around 13 and felt like the Turtles were growing with me. The 2k3 series also was very different from the FW series and it didn't try to replicate it. But clearly the powers-that-be since then are only interested in trying to replicate the 1987-1992 FW TurtleMania success. Sure, it's smart because it makes more money, but I'm not interested in taking any part in that. It's obvious that I'm no the target audience for the Turtles anymore. And I don't mean that in terms of age only. Nick are clearly trying to appeal to an audience which I'm not a part of.

I'll just keep my Fred Wolf, NES/SNES/MD videogames, first 3 live action films and 2k3 memories. Not to mention will try to read more Mirage issues in the upcoming years. That's enough TMNT material to keep me entertained for the rest of my life.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:05 AM   #9
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I'm not really sure, to be honest. I guess I don't expect much at this point, so I'm pleased with what does appeal to me. Neca movie figures, Injustice dlc, the occasional IDW or 2k12 collectible or story.
It's not much, compared to other characters & universes I'm interested in, but it's something to appreciate.

I do sort of wish things had gone differently over the last decade or so. There should have been more for the older demographic by now, and the movies have been a series of disappointments that have, at least, snubbed the potential of the franchise, if not outright harmed it.

Again, the question, for me, really comes down to expectations.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:33 AM   #10
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I agree with a lot of what you said, I had the same unfortunate realization myself a while back. It's why I, too, don't post here as much anymore (that, & how it seems the majority of folks left here are just compulsive nitpickers). I still do & always will love the TMNT as much as I ever have, but between my life changing & the fandom stagnating, that green fire which always burned behind my eyes isn't quite as bright. & in some ways, that's a good thing, because my fixation on TMNT has at times bordered on unhealthy. These days, thanks to having a partner to share things with, I'm able to indulge in other properties more, which broadens my interests & makes for more positive social experiences, fandom wise, as ours is one of the more derisive ones. So that's nice. Been going ham on Godzilla for a year or longer.

Like you, I adore Rise, but the metric f*ck-ton of blindly biased opposition (be it closed-mindedness or genwunnerism) toward it has definitely put a damper on my enjoyment of the "community" & my willingness to take part in, or contribute to it. Conversely, I've found TMNT groups outside of here, that are way more active & knowledgeable (in specific aspects of TMNT, mind you), so when I do want to scratch that itch I am able to do so with people of more measured temperaments. I've also become good friends with a really cool Rise fan-artist, with whom I am able to discuss the series, something you can't do virtually anywhere, outside of Tumblr, which, well, ya know, no thanks. For the most part, the few people who do post about it here, only watch it so they can bitch about it, failing to grasp it will never be what they want it to. It never marketed itself as anything but something wildly different & comedy focused, so why anyone continues to begrudgingly follow it expecting a sudden 180 into darkness & drama, is beyond me.

I still follow & enjoy the IDW comics, but there's a lot about the series I don't care for, so while I do look forward to them, I don't have a great deal to say. Well, to be more specific, it's just overcrowded & feels a bit formulaic (dramatic arcs written for trade). It doesn't feel like the TMNT are special in that universe, or even the stars of their own book, not to mention they seldom get any down-time. The art direction & new characters are always baller, that's what keeps me coming back.

On a whole, I remain happy with Viacom's TMNT output. Didn't care for Bayturtles, but I think the track record's been pretty good otherwise. But, as you say, it's clear that the dependence on Fred Wolf stuff isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so I am not terribly optimistic about the immediate future of the property or fandom right now, hence my taking a step back. I can't afford to invest so much of myself in it anymore. Frankly, I'm bored to death with "classic" TMNT. That Batman movie bored the sh*t out of me. I'd gladly welcome continuations of the Henson film universe, or Mirage, in the hands of those who actually wet their beaks in those worlds, but otherwise, I want more NEW stuff, like Rise, which I can plainly see now probably won't happen.

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Old 11-24-2019, 10:52 AM   #11
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I agree with a lot of what you said, I had the same unfortunate realization myself a while back. It's why I, too, don't post here as much anymore (that, & how it seems the majority of folks left here are just compulsive nitpickers). I still do & always will love the TMNT as much as I ever have, but between my life changing & the fandom stagnating, that green fire which always burned behind my eyes isn't quite as bright. & in some ways, that's a good thing, because my fixation on TMNT has at times bordered on unhealthy.
As much as you and I have had a history of disagreement over Rise, if it helps, what I quoted above applies completely to me as well, the only difference being even my love for the franchise is starting to wane due to the factors we apparently both have noticed for ourselves, the fandom toxicity and the feeling like the degree of interest from oneself is unhealthy in particular. This is a major reason why I havenít posted much here anymore, though the other reason is just that Iíve been busier.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:21 AM   #12
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Here are some solid examples that I hope will either give you perspective, or at least be hopeful. If you think TMNT fandom has seen real disappointment, consider the following.

Consider being an Iron Man fan for 30 years only to have the excitement of a B-List character become a household name through film, but then have to smile through the lackluster Iron Man 2. Then sit in a theater with "normies" during the completely offensive Iron Man 3. After that, watch the character go toe-to-toe with Thanos, but then in the follow-up whimsically travel through time only to witness the character's death amidst a never-resolved ten rings plot and a completely non-cannon daughter. And afterwards, sit there and listen to "normie movie-goers" discuss how they "had" to kill the character and then claim to be "in-the-know" by citing how the kid from Iron Man 3 (non-canon Shane Black addition to the story) becomes the next Iron Man. Most regular movie goers would think I'm nuts, but those people were only there for the movies and take whatever Marvel feeds them as gold.

Consider being a Star Trek fan since watching he TOS re-runs Sundays with your mom and dad before TNG aired. Loving the franchise and the movies, until the IP disappears to years and years only to be rekindled by mediocre Abrams Trek, and even worse through a new show overran by SJW nonsense and invasive political correctness, ironically abbreviated as "STD". But Picard has made me hopeful about the IP again. But I'm not afraid to let the crap parts of a franchise ruin my entire fandom for me.

My point? Fandom can be something that ebbs and flows. I've stuck out most of Iron Man's dips, but I'm a hard core collector for that character. I've stuck with TMNT, but my level of interest comes and goes with the strength of the property. No big deal. You can put something down for a while and come back to it and still be more of a long-term hardcore fan than most people. No big deal.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:46 AM   #13
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I probably wouldn't. I haven't really cared much since the Nick buyout. Nothing they've put out has appealed to me and I don't see that changing.

I'm sure it's partly them and partly me. I get that they're forever going to aim only at kids, and that's their prerogative, but I've said before that I could only ever get excited again about a TMNT product that's in the vein of the 1990 movie. It's the only thing about the brand that's consistently held my interest and brought me joy, everything else I either don't like or have to be in the mood for, nowadays.

That's apparently my preferred "flavor" of TMNT, and we're never getting any more of that, so yeah, I kind of don't really care anymore.
I do wonder Leo, I know the 1990 movie followed more of the Mirage plot than the 'power the Technodrome' plot, plots that would never have been seen had 2003 and 2012 not decided to incorporate them as well. However, despite the more serious tone and the fact that the Turtles had to come to grips to potentially losing their father and all that, were you able to stomach all the 'cool!' 'radical!' 'bodacious!' 'pizza! cowabunga!' that the movie was chockfull of, or was it not bad enough to ruin the experience?
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:07 PM   #14
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As long as we get new cartoons and IDW keeps going, there's always stuff to look forward to. I fell off of Rise pretty quickly, but I'll watch it all when it ends. Even then I don't bother anyone who genuinely likes it, that's why I don't post in the Rise section much because I haven't watched the show enough to form a real opinion on it.

As for IDW, I think the best way to describe it is how "crowded" it is. It takes them forever to cover plotlines and characters, no fault to the writers, but how the book is set-up. We literally wait YEARS for plots to get a move on, they're still doing the same exact Pantheon stuff with Kitsune and Rat King from 50+ issues ago! We still have all the same villains around besides Shredder/Krang from issue 50 too...which makes it feel like a lack of progressions.

Again no fault to the writers, most of IDW is good, but it just takes forever for things to happen.
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Old 11-24-2019, 03:19 PM   #15
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I dunno, I guess it's never felt like a lack of progression for me. I'm very used to the slow burn approach in storytelling, so I've never minded the wait.
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:47 PM   #16
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I do wonder Leo, I know the 1990 movie followed more of the Mirage plot than the 'power the Technodrome' plot, plots that would never have been seen had 2003 and 2012 not decided to incorporate them as well. However, despite the more serious tone and the fact that the Turtles had to come to grips to potentially losing their father and all that, were you able to stomach all the 'cool!' 'radical!' 'bodacious!' 'pizza! cowabunga!' that the movie was chockfull of, or was it not bad enough to ruin the experience?
All of that feels like a reasonable concession in order to get the rest of the movie made. It didn't bother me then (as I was too young to know differently) and still doesn't now.

Oddly enough, as a kid I was fanatical about the FW cartoon (and Archie comics). I didn't even realize that by 1990 I was getting a bit tired of the formula, until I saw the movie, and suddenly it was like, "Oh, okay, THAT'S what I want TMNT to be like." It had enough resemblance to the cartoon by way of the characters' personalities to be familiar, but was also grounded and "real" enough to be engaging for people over the age of 9. To this day I sometimes get a rare opportunity to "smarten up" someone of a certain age who's never seen (or even heard of) the film, and it always gets a rave reaction, especially from people who only know of the brand through toys and cartoons. Usually something like, "I didn't think they'd ever make a REAL movie about this kinda thing!" (as opposed to the expected farce that the name implies to most people). Sometimes one of them will have seen or be familiar with the Bay disasters, and in turn will wonder out loud, "WHY don't they just keep it like that first movie? That was good! Why do they keep making it silly?" I don't have a good answer. Never did.

Anyway. The cartoon concessions of the original film were a very small price to pay in exchange for the only TMNT product that's ever had "true" cross-over appeal between fans, non-fans, and people of all ages. If it was 100% Mirage it would probably have been so "dry" and unfamiliar to the casual audience that it would have lost a lot of the charm that gives it its unique appeal. I'm not a fan of the pizza/"Cowabunga" sh*t but I understand that it's never going away at this point. The first movie was extremely tame with it compared to everything else that's come since. It didn't bother me then, and nowadays all I can think of is how they showed such incredible restraint.

Interesting question.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:23 PM   #17
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Unfortunately, none of the franchises that I love seem to be putting out anything that I'm really interested in over the last couple of years. I have zero interest in Rise of the TMNT, Transformers Cyberverse, or Star Wars Resistance. And I won't even be giving Thundercats Go! (or whatever it's going to be called) a chance. I really only watch Netflix's She-Ra and Princesses of Power because I'm curious to see what they do with the franchise. I am going to check out Netflix and Kevin Smith's He-Man. So I guess I've got that to look forward to.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:50 PM   #18
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Still, it's all over now. The public has- for the most part- moved on. I should say that I love what I've seen from Rise. It's new, different, and beautifully animated. Rise is what I've been asking for out of new incarnations for years- something different. Unfortunately, most of the fandom has rejected Rise (probably because they're missing the point of that show entirely), and Nick doesn't seem to care too much about it either. It's disheartening to see this happen to a show that has so much heart put into it.

If there is one thing I learned about this forums is that most people don't care about animation, to them unless a character has 20 lines across their face its "generic" or "Cal-Arts Style" which is a shame because like you said Rise is beautifully animated and its a shame not a lot of people here don't even recognize that aspect of the show. I'm not going to say Rise is perfect but after 2k3 taking inspiration from Mirage, 2k12 combining aspects of 2k3 and OT and IDW pretty much being the Ultimate universe of TMNT should't a new series experiment a little.

Good news is that the series is getting a cult following on Twitter, it aint much but at least there are fans of it.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:08 PM   #19
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Can you distinguish between animation and design? The shape of the characters is, simplistic. The animation of Rise, is what is often referred to as limited motion. Limited motion may feel effective, for you, in that the little they do animate, is engaging, but this doesn’t mean it’s good. Good animation, means that the flow between frames is smooth and well done. Animation is not a catch all term. Bay turtles had very good animation, but terrible designs. Rise does not do this. It’s choppy as hell. It’s limited and simple. South Park is an engaging show, but the animation is basic, while Spiderverse had incredibly dynamic animation, that was stepped down in post to give it a stoccato, limited animation feel.

What you want to say is that you like the design of Rise. You like the style. You like the layouts. Stop saying it’s incredible animation ffs. You sound ignorant.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:12 PM   #20
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All I will say is that since the Nick sale, no, I don't have any hope for a TMNT incarnation that will be even moderately appealing to me. But also, I'm a 38 year-old man... why would it? That said, I won't rule out being "pleasantly surprised" at some point, as maybe some TMNT project in some venue (maybe one subcontracted to another studio) is able to appeal to a wide enough berth that includes me and not the lowest common denominators.
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