The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Fan Creations > Fan Works Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2013, 04:33 AM   #61
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS View Post
Hey ZariusTwo,

Hope you don't mind the detailed reviews I'm giving. I just wanted to give something with a bit substance to it so you could know how a reader (just my small opinion ) was interpreting it. Everything is good from what I'm reading. I'm really impressed by the conversation and interaction with the characters in your work which makes them in-character in your fanfiction stories.
Mate, I wish more people would give me a load more detailed reviews, I can count the people who do that on one hand on that site.

Last edited by ZariusTwo; 02-01-2013 at 04:46 AM.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:14 PM   #62
IcyKali
Thug
 
IcyKali's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Mate, I wish more people would give me a load more detailed reviews, I can count the people who do that on one hand on that site.
Not sure if you only want reviews on ff.net, in which case I'll move this. But here's some critique. This has just been nagging at me for while (after I read My Seer, My Secretary). Since you want detailed reviews...

First, good stuff:

The spelling and formatting mistakes are not that big of a deal. Basically, having a good plot is the important thing. An experienced beta can always fix that stuff for you, and as long as people can tell what you intended, it's not much of an issue.

I loved the ship-teasing between Irma and Donatello! It felt genuine, and they both felt very in-character, and since Don is my favorite turtle, it was nice to see his skills alone for a bit.

I liked the scenes in the restaurant where Irma is seeing the future. It felt like something straight out of the cartoon!

Stuff I didn't like:

The sex jokes and toilet humor really irk me. It's that and one other thing that really stops me from liking the story. Now, a successful joke can be made out of pretty much anything, depending on the context. But I saw no reason for any of those jokes except for maybe when Vernon becomes Verna (apologies if I don't remember everything 100%, I read the story a week ago).

To explain the problem, I'll borrow from one of my favorite writing guides, How Not to Write a Novel:

While gross details have their place, they should not be relentless. Readers will generally find such descriptions repulsive. They will go on to find your characters repulsive, your book repulsive, and harbor strong suspicions about you. This is not the progression likely to end in a generous book advance.

More importantly:

A final note: despite what you learned in junior high school, gross things are not, in and of themselves, funny. The jokes you laughed at again and again in Farrelly Brothers movies work only in conjunction with actual comic material.

You see, the problem is that the material you're working from, the OT, does not match in tone at all to those jokes. An occasional "getting crap past the radar" joke or double entendre could work, but I don't think what you are doing worked at all.

Younger people find this stuff funny because they associate it with a rebellion against authority, but once they get older, they generally won't find it funny anymore. Now, when that happens is different for everybody, but generally older adults will not laugh at this stuff if it doesn't work in context.

This is the second problem I have, which is it doesn't seem to have a good tone in general. It fluctuates between being like the OT, to darker, with more adult humor, for no good reason that I can tell.

Now, most of your reviews have been positive, so not listening to me might not cause you any problems. But these things may be important for your future work.

I know I'm being "that guy", and I'm usually waaay more mild-mannered, but I can tell that you are taking this seriously, and I really want to help.

You are this close to being awesome.

EDIT: It's fanfiction and you can do whatever you want. But using images from the OT, and saying that it "lives on" through your story gives fans a certain impression.

Last edited by IcyKali; 02-01-2013 at 03:50 PM.
IcyKali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #63
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Thanks very much for this. If you go back to earlier in the thread you'll find I was called out on this sort of thing on the first story too, sadly I promised I'd behave myself on the next one and obviously I didnt...in fact, I think it got worse.

Mainly it comes down to a trap a lot of fanfic authors fall into...the urge to have what you loved as a kid grow with you, which would include incorporating elements of stuff found in formative adult years. Some authors can pull off the little jokes and hints subtley but I clearly am not a master of that.

You're right, it IS fanfiction...it's like a boy being told to write up his homework, but he's aware he's off on summer vacation and the teacher isnt looking so he draws a picture of him pulling his pants down while still writing up a comprehensive essay on a figure in high society. There's no Govenon telling me to behave myself at a big animation studio, so I'm compelled to be cheeky. I probably need to discipline myself

I appreciate the feedback and will watch myself with the third one...I might even take longer to write it just so I can find a way of moving things forward without falling into those same traps.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 06:22 PM   #64
Refractive Reflections
Mad Scientist
 
Refractive Reflections's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyKali View Post
The sex jokes and toilet humor really irk me. It's that and one other thing that really stops me from liking the story. Now, a successful joke can be made out of pretty much anything, depending on the context. But I saw no reason for any of those jokes except for maybe when Vernon becomes Verna (apologies if I don't remember everything 100%, I read the story a week ago).

...
You see, the problem is that the material you're working from, the OT, does not match in tone at all to those jokes. An occasional "getting crap past the radar" joke or double entendre could work, but I don't think what you are doing worked at all.

...
EDIT: It's fanfiction and you can do whatever you want. But using images from the OT, and saying that it "lives on" through your story gives fans a certain impression.
I can see where IcyKali is coming from now, since I just finished reading the entire second story from the 3rd chapter. And I have to agree, just as IcyKali pointed out, I wouldn't be this picky either but the "lives on" line really binds a writer to stick with that tone.

In fanfiction.net, I gave the specific examples but there were some moments that were:
(1) descriptively creepy with the worm torture scene and using blood (since that was never shown in the OT, or at least not in such a torturous setting)

(2) sexual humor that was too obvious in Ch. 8. Usually the double entendre is said where the other characters do not respond to it, at least not directly.
I know in "April Gets In Dutch" Leonardo makes a joke about Shredder and his gang landing in a net of fishes saying "...they didn't do it for the hal-ib-ut" (hell of it ) and the other Turtles compliment him on making a joke, but the humor ended then and there. It wasn't explicitly brought up. Do you know what I mean ZariusTwo??
In the first story, I didn't mind the "size" joke because it was all implied (only the reader could figure it out) and Turtles didn't seem aware of it since it was about the pizza and none of the dialogue hinted that they "knew" how their conversation may be misinterpreted.

(3) The disgust factor: The Rexington droppings and Rocksteady "cleaning" Shredder's shoes. I know there was garbage, sewer, and some toilet humor in the OT, but those two situations specifically were transitioning more in the realm of repulsive and feeling sorry for the characters experiencing it rather than witty humor.

I don't want to be critical but those 3 things just abruptly halted the innocent flow of the OT tone at times before the more the lighter, funny character dialogue would move past it. One major strong point is the on-spot character depictions (mannerisms and dialogue). And as I wrote earlier in ff.net, I'm glad you explored more into an individual Turtle (Donatello) story and the relationship bond with Irma. It was a strong point of the OT itself when they showed the Turtles' lives outside of their fighting, which made it easier for the viewer to relate to them which sadly was pushed aside during the Red Sky Seasons.

Just like IcyKali said, I'm a very laid back person and enjoy a full spectrum of very light to heavy darker themed versions of any Turtle series (I'm sure you noticed me fully enjoy Tony Day's darker OT themed "Turtle Turncoat" comic). It's just that you seemed very persistent on maintaining that light OT tone feeling. To be really honest, the rating would be more between K+ and T than simply K.

Overall though it's really good!

Last edited by Refractive Reflections; 02-01-2013 at 06:42 PM.
Refractive Reflections is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #65
IcyKali
Thug
 
IcyKali's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
I appreciate the feedback and will watch myself with the third one...I might even take longer to write it just so I can find a way of moving things forward without falling into those same traps.
I really respect you for being so gracious! It's a rare writer that reacts like you just did.

I agree with all the things that JLS said as well. Those were exactly the
examples I was thinking of.

Do you have a beta-reader? Things like this are exactly what editors are for!
Many times, a professional writer will have a draft of a story, and there will be one scene (or one joke) that could throw the whole thing off balance. Generally, due to being so close to the work, and having put effort into creating everything, they won't be able to see it. Thus, an editor has to catch it.

There's no shame in mistakes like this happening. My own fanfictions would have a bunch of problems in descriptions if I didn't have my beta around! ^_^

I'm sure everyone will understand if you want to take more time! Good stuff is worth waiting for.

Last edited by IcyKali; 02-02-2013 at 12:07 AM.
IcyKali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 04:54 AM   #66
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyKali View Post
I really respect you for being so gracious! It's a rare writer that reacts like you just did.

I agree with all the things that JLS said as well. Those were exactly the
examples I was thinking of.

Do you have a beta-reader? Things like this are exactly what editors are for!
Many times, a professional writer will have a draft of a story, and there will be one scene (or one joke) that could throw the whole thing off balance. Generally, due to being so close to the work, and having put effort into creating everything, they won't be able to see it. Thus, an editor has to catch it.
I remember watching a documentary about the writer Ian Rankin (author of the Rebus detective novels) and it showed his editor catching a few things wrong in his early drafts of "Standing in Another Man's Grave" (his new breakout hero Malcom Fox being an uncharacterstic d*ck to the main character Rebus), the editor was concerned about him annoying fans of the Fox character, saying that it didnt work in context, and Rankin being beside himself convinced it worked in context. So yeah, I can see what you mean about being too close to the work and needing someone who, while unattached in some places, is attached to the aspects of the presentation that matter to the overall reader, someone who has the pulse on the people.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 06:55 AM   #67
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Right...something a bit different this time around. I've decided to novelize the third episode before I write the script, as I feel I can improve a lot on the script by going with this format
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 07:36 AM   #68
BubblyShell22
Leo-holic
 
BubblyShell22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 16,917
Oooh, cool. Can't wait to read it.
__________________
"A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One.

"Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.
BubblyShell22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 10:53 AM   #69
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Right...something a bit different this time around. I've decided to novelize the third episode before I write the script, as I feel I can improve a lot on the script by going with this format
Nice. I think most people just want to read a story rather than using it as a play, so that way's awesome.
__________________
Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:17 AM   #70
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Novelization of the third episode is complete. This one was a tad shorter than the others, but I'm not too fussed.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:41 AM   #71
BubblyShell22
Leo-holic
 
BubblyShell22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 16,917
Read and reviewed it. Good job, Zarius.
__________________
"A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One.

"Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.
BubblyShell22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:45 AM   #72
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
..Heh, someone compared my third book's ending to Flowers for Algeron in the reviews on FF.net, sweet compliment.

Last edited by ZariusTwo; 02-09-2013 at 04:44 AM.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:59 PM   #73
IcyKali
Thug
 
IcyKali's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
..Heh, someone compared my third book's ending to Flowers for Algeron in the reviews on FF.net, sweet compliment.
That was me ^_^''
Were you aiming for that effect?
IcyKali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 04:10 PM   #74
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyKali View Post
That was me ^_^''
Were you aiming for that effect?
Sort of stumbled on it. Didnt make the connection 'till you brought it up.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 11:18 PM   #75
Refractive Reflections
Mad Scientist
 
Refractive Reflections's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Right...something a bit different this time around. I've decided to novelize the third episode before I write the script, as I feel I can improve a lot on the script by going with this format
It was a big improvement! (I'm not saying the 2nd story was generally bad, far from it...but it terms of maintaining that OT tone it was big.) The flow of the story was more in line with the OT tone.

I really liked this episode/story because of the OT episode references and "breaking the 4th wall" moments with the reader because they make the story more engaged with the reader. Hmmm...as I reviewed in ff.net, are you sure you're not mind-reading my ideas of my fanfic??? LOL, just kidding.

There's just so many things I enjoy about this: the OT episode references, "breaking the 4th wall", highlighting each Turtle's adventure with each episode/story, improvement on the subtle adult humor, the detailed fighting scenes (helps the reader, or at least me, imagine the fighting situation), the in-character dialogue, and Splinter's in-character advice. The paragraph structure was good too because instead of seeing repeated one lines over and over and over again, it gave the story some structure to appropriately designate one character's speech, emotions, and actions in one paragraph. (Otherwise the continual, unwarranted, new paragraph line each implies a new idea every time.)

It's almost uncanny how this fanfic could almost come across as a script of the OT show as the reviewer "Brooke Thomas" pointed out.

I know you mentioned that you like/prefer detailed reviews, I also hope you don't mind also the chapter by chapter review as well. I thought maybe it could provide a perspective of how the reader is interpreting it with each passing chapter. Extraordinary work ZariusTwo! **applause**


And I also wanted to mention, as IcyKali pointed out, thank you tremendously for taking both of our reviews ("My Seer, My Secretary") so courteously, especially with some critical aspects of the story. (It's just that we wanted to help point out some things with the standards that you had set for yourself.) As IcyKali stated, it's rare for writers to do so because sometimes they ask for a more critical perspective but then get aggravated despite them asking for it. (Which therefore reflects your impressive maturity ZariusTwo. ) Here's an exaggerated analogy of how some other immature writers get aggravated: similarly to how you point out to a "friend" that they have a phlegm coming out of their nose, but they start getting upset with you, just because you told them despite it being for their own benefit.

Last edited by Refractive Reflections; 02-10-2013 at 11:34 PM.
Refractive Reflections is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 03:59 AM   #76
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS View Post
I really liked this episode/story because of the OT episode references and "breaking the 4th wall" moments with the reader because they make the story more engaged with the reader. Hmmm...as I reviewed in ff.net, are you sure you're not mind-reading my ideas of my fanfic??? LOL, just kidding.
Even if you were kidding, that's very encouraging, I always like surrounding myself with like-minded people.

Quote:
It's almost uncanny how this fanfic could almost come across as a script of the OT show as the reviewer "Brooke Thomas" pointed out.
That'll be our own Blossombrooks. Most of my reviewers are all people I know on here.

Quote:
And I also wanted to mention, as IcyKali pointed out, thank you tremendously for taking both of our reviews ("My Seer, My Secretary") so courteously, especially with some critical aspects of the story. (It's just that we wanted to help point out some things with the standards that you had set for yourself.) As IcyKali stated, it's rare for writers to do so because sometimes they ask for a more critical perspective but then get aggravated despite them asking for it. (Which therefore reflects your impressive maturity ZariusTwo. )
Thankyou. I aim to be fairly open to the audience for these stories and part of that is being able to take points and notions for improvement on the chin and apply them to the works so you get rewarded with a better all-around product. It helps everyone feel like a big part of the creative process.

Quote:
Here's an exaggerated analogy of how some other immature writers get aggravated: similarly to how you point out to a "friend" that they have a phlegm coming out of their nose, but they start getting upset with you, just because you told them despite it being for their own benefit.
Heh, I think that's how I'll refer to MSMS, the little phlegm of my efforts thus far.

Last edited by ZariusTwo; 02-11-2013 at 04:59 AM.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #77
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Started work on the fourth book.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 09:59 AM   #78
Refractive Reflections
Mad Scientist
 
Refractive Reflections's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Even if you were kidding, that's very encouraging, I always like surrounding myself with like-minded people.
I was just kidding about the mind-reading bit , but those two techniques (referring to OT episodes and "breaking the 4th wall") are things that I am doing, minimally in the beginning of my fanfic, so that it makes the TMNT characters more believable. In addition, it's going to help in character development with my fanfic when there are episodes a character can refer to in gaining life experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Heh, I think that's how I'll refer to MSMS, the little phlegm of my efforts thus far.
MSMS?? Who/what is that?? Just curious...lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Started work on the fourth book.
Can't wait ZariusTwo!
Refractive Reflections is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 12:41 PM   #79
ZariusTwo
Overlord
 
ZariusTwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP!
Posts: 13,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS View Post
MSMS?? Who/what is that?? Just curious...lol
Short for "My Seer, My Secretary"

Looking forward to your fanfic.
ZariusTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #80
BubblyShell22
Leo-holic
 
BubblyShell22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 16,917
Read the first chapter of your fourth book, Zarius. Great start so far.
__________________
"A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One.

"Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.
BubblyShell22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.