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Old 06-30-2015, 12:17 AM   #41
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It's lots of people. Naming names and pointing fingers distracts from the larger point and I try and avoid it unless it's absolutely necessary.

The broad point being, the people who enjoy these movies the most are the ones who are content and/or more satisfied with TMNT being primarily "silly dumb fun". I don't think anyone can argue that. And I also don't think anyone can argue with the fact that there's just as many people who know that TMNT can be a little bit better than that, and they in turn often get yelled at or made fun of for expecting too much. And I find that kind of unfair.

Also, I do wish I had a Flying V. No foolin'.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:42 AM   #42
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Exactly. And, Seth, they didn't establish the origin at all. There is no Saki/Yoshi rivalry and Splinter learned ninjutsu based off of some silly book. To me, that's not establishing an origin of anything more than it is p*ssing on it and not putting forth the effort to tell the story right. And when they were asked why, they simply said, "It was too complicated." Are you serious?
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:08 AM   #43
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Exactly. And, Seth, they didn't establish the origin at all. There is no Saki/Yoshi rivalry and Splinter learned ninjutsu based off of some silly book. To me, that's not establishing an origin of anything more than it is p*ssing on it and not putting forth the effort to tell the story right. And when they were asked why, they simply said, "It was too complicated." Are you serious?
"they are the foot because they stomp everything" or something like that. I lost it. Like WTF! Really?
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:11 AM   #44
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I didn't see that, but they did say that the Yoshi/Saki rivalry was too complicated to tell. Um, how is it complicated?
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:31 AM   #45
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'Cause it was a dude and another dude arguing about a dudette.

Casting three more people would have required cutting the tower explosion carnage from the budget. Which is gonna look better on a big screen!?
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:37 AM   #46
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I think it was their excuse of saying, "We're lazy and we don't care about the franchise. We just want to make money."
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:46 AM   #47
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I think it was their excuse of saying, "We're lazy and we don't care about the franchise. We just want to make money."
More realistically, I think it has more to do with how minimally the Fred Wolf cartoon referenced the origin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Tang Shen ever features... it's just Saki and Yoshi. One brief little "Saki had no honor and tried to take over the Foot by framing Yoshi, who got kicked out... and well here we are!"

But even then, Bay couldn't be bothered. Because it's too complicated.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:00 AM   #48
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More realistically, I think it has more to do with how minimally the Fred Wolf cartoon referenced the origin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Tang Shen ever features... it's just Saki and Yoshi. One brief little "Saki had no honor and tried to take over the Foot by framing Yoshi, who got kicked out... and well here we are!"

But even then, Bay couldn't be bothered. Because it's too complicated.
As much as the people who made the first movie mentioned comics and Eastman, their main influence was the old cartoon. The origin wasn't a big deal in that show (And it was also a huge simplification of the comic origin). The Splinter/Shredder rivalry was small potatoes. Shredder wanted to destroy the turtles because the turtles kept messing up his plans. The OT turtles also kicked in doors and fought like overpowered brutes, instead of like ninjas. That's what Leibesman grew up with.

If I made Batman movies, they'd be more like the 60's show than anything else. I've liked Batman my whole life, but I've never read The Dark Knight Returns or Knightfall, or really any comics you might hope would influence my films. Whether it's my responsibility to incorporate that stuff or if I have every right to make Batman '66-inspired films is up to debate. I'm just saying that's what I think happened with TMNT. And if you look at the movie as something influenced almost solely by that cartoon, it makes a lot more sense that it came out how it did.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:07 AM   #49
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As much as the people who made the first movie mentioned comics and Eastman, their main influence was the old cartoon. The origin wasn't a big deal in that show (And it was also a huge simplification of the comic origin). The Splinter/Shredder rivalry was small potatoes. Shredder wanted to destroy the turtles because the turtles kept messing up his plans. The OT turtles also kicked in doors and fought like overpowered brutes, instead of like ninjas. That's what Leibesman grew up with.

If I made Batman movies, they'd be more like the 60's show than anything else. I've liked Batman my whole life, but I've never read The Dark Knight Returns or Knightfall, or really any comics you might hope would influence my films. Whether it's my responsibility to incorporate that stuff or if I have every right to make Batman '66-inspired films is up to debate. I'm just saying that's what I think happened with TMNT. And if you look at the movie as something influenced almost solely by that cartoon, it makes a lot more sense that it came out how it did.
True, but even as an OT homage, the movie failed miserably. The writing and editing were atrocious. If PD wanted to acquiese to fan complaints about a white-washed Shredder, then they shouldn't have half-assed it.

A terrible movie is somewhat subjective, due to taste; but terrible writing is absolutely objective.

And you would be absolutely within your right as a scriptwriter or director to produce a 66-Batman movie. But it would be idiotic to do so, knowing that the majority of your potential audience will not like it. In the same way, Michael Bay is an idiot for not knowing that 50% of his audience are adults who grew up on the OT, but are now old enough to recognize half-assed writing and lack of interest, and who will villify him for insulting their intelligence and their fandom.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:30 AM   #50
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Talking of p*ssing all over a franchise's legacy, much respect to Robert Zemeckis who is blocking all Hollywood attempts to re-make BTTF as long as he's alive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/back...bert-zemeckis/

Shame others don't have that respect for other franchise's....

*cough* Michael *cough* Bay
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:49 AM   #51
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The Splinter/Shredder rivalry was small potatoes..
Framed for murder attempt and a assassination plot that mutated the victim instead isn't that small potatoes though.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:57 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
True, but even as an OT homage, the movie failed miserably. The writing and editing were atrocious. If PD wanted to acquiese to fan complaints about a white-washed Shredder, then they shouldn't have half-assed it.

A terrible movie is somewhat subjective, due to taste; but terrible writing is absolutely objective.

And you would be absolutely within your right as a scriptwriter or director to produce a 66-Batman movie. But it would be idiotic to do so, knowing that the majority of your potential audience will not like it. In the same way, Michael Bay is an idiot for not knowing that 50% of his audience are adults who grew up on the OT, but are now old enough to recognize half-assed writing and lack of interest, and who will villify him for insulting their intelligence and their fandom.
There were certainly a lot of writing issues. We'll never know how deeply the budget cuts and rewrites altered their plans. It's easy to say they should've done better with the changes, but we'll never know what options were actually at their disposal at those stages of production. What they could afford to do, or what footage was rendered worthless. Personally, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, in that area. Especially since I think feel they did a great job with the turtles, themselves. I don't share the impression that there was a lack of care or concern. At least not from Leibesman.

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Framed for murder attempt and a assassination plot that mutated the victim instead isn't that small potatoes though.
You wouldn't think so, but that's how they treated it after the first miniseries.

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Talking of p*ssing all over a franchise's legacy, much respect to Robert Zemeckis who is blocking all Hollywood attempts to re-make BTTF as long as he's alive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/back...bert-zemeckis/

Shame others don't have that respect for other franchise's....

*cough* Michael *cough* Bay
As someone who loves BTTF as much as TMNT, it's a perfect property for a remake. There's just a 95% chance it would be done poorly. The story of a teenager who goes back in time 30 years to when his parents were teenagers, and has to make them fall in love? That's GOLD. GOLD. That story could work today, a hundred years from now, or a hundred years ago. But no one would remake BTTF using only the core concept.

You try reusing the old characters or old jokes? Hello, McFly, 1.21 jiggawatts, Doc, Marty, Biff, the DeLorean? You'll never please fans. But just that core story concept? It's like most remakable thing ever.
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:06 PM   #53
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There were certainly a lot of writing issues. We'll never know how deeply the budget cuts and rewrites altered their plans. It's easy to say they should've done better with the changes, but we'll never know what options were actually at their disposal at those stages of production. What they could afford to do, or what footage was rendered worthless. Personally, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, in that area. Especially since I think feel they did a great job with the turtles, themselves. I don't share the impression that there was a lack of care or concern. At least not from Leibesman.
The four Turtles were well done (except for Donnie's uber-geek), but I wouldn't give anyone credit for that except for the four actors themselves. Five, I guess, if you count both halves of Leo (VA + motion capture).
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Old 06-30-2015, 01:22 PM   #54
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And when they were asked why, they simply said, "It was too complicated." Are you serious?
Some of today's film makers are basically the kid who came in fourth place and still expects (and probably receives) a trophy and vigorous applause.

It might take effort to tell a story well, but it's never "too complicated" tell a story unless you're that uncreative or lazy, and at that point why are you in the business.
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Old 06-30-2015, 03:14 PM   #55
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Exactly. And, Seth, they didn't establish the origin at all. There is no Saki/Yoshi rivalry and Splinter learned ninjutsu based off of some silly book. To me, that's not establishing an origin of anything more than it is p*ssing on it and not putting forth the effort to tell the story right. And when they were asked why, they simply said, "It was too complicated." Are you serious?
What I meant by "they established the origin" was this: They have established the origin for this specific film series so the next film can just move on to the next adventure and we don't have to go through all of the character introductions since they are already established. This will allow them to put more characters and content into this. I didn't say the origin story in the first movie was good or well written. I hate it too. But it least we don't have to see it again in the next one.
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Old 06-30-2015, 03:20 PM   #56
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What I meant by "they established the origin" was this: They have established the origin for this specific film series so the next film can just move on to the next adventure and we don't have to go through all of the character introductions since they are already established. This will allow them to put more characters and content into this. I didn't say the origin story in the first movie was good or well written. I hate it too. But it least we don't have to see it again in the next one.
Yeah, now they can focus on April even more!
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Old 06-30-2015, 03:24 PM   #57
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What I meant by "they established the origin" was this: They have established the origin for this specific film series so the next film can just move on to the next adventure and we don't have to go through all of the character introductions since they are already established. This will allow them to put more characters and content into this. I didn't say the origin story in the first movie was good or well written. I hate it too. But it least we don't have to see it again in the next one.
I agree with you when you say we can move on and not revisit that atrocious half-assed non-origin.

I don't necessarily think putting more characters and content into this sequel is a good idea... so far, it seems like it's gonna be just as much of a mess as the first movie, assuming a similar 90min runtime.

But I, at least, am prepared to change my opinion on the movie's quality or lack thereof once we start getting some trailers. We shall see. I expect the worst, but we shall see...
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Old 06-30-2015, 03:58 PM   #58
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Some new info about Stephen Amell's take on Casey Jones.
http://www.thetvjunkies.com/stephen-...n-casey-jones/
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Arrow star Stephen Amell has been a busy man this summer as he’s traded in his bow and arrow for a hockey stick. The CW superhero will star as vigilante Casey Jones in the upcoming movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 which will be released in 2016. He has spent his Arrow hiatus in New York City this summer filming his first major role on the big screen and was able to give The TV Junkies some details about his take on the turtle-friendly Jones.

“My version of Casey Jones is really incomplete,” says Amell before going on to explain that this take on the character, known for wielding weapons such as golf clubs, hockey sticks and baseball bats, may be different from what fans expect. “We meet Casey Jones at a very different point in his life than most people that are familiar with the live-action version of Casey Jones. He’s not really that guy yet,” explains Amell.

So then just what is this new era Casey Jones up to? Amell remains somewhat tight lipped but adds that “he is doing something different and has aspirations that don’t really involve being a vigilante. Then he’s put in his place a little bit and he needs to make a few decisions.”

As for the movie itself, Amell thinks it appeals to a broader audience this time around. “I do think that this movie will be a little more family friendly,” he tells us. But family friendly doesn’t mean there will be any shortage of action sequences, and in fact those are going to be bigger than previous Turtle movies. “The third act of the movie is just non-stop action on multiple fronts,” Amell previews.

What about fans concerned about the reboot and how it will stand up with past Turtle movies? Amell says that they shouldn’t worry because “this to me, based on everything that I’ve heard, feels like a Turtles movie as opposed to the first one.” He also adds that “this may be a little darker than people had anticipated.” But fear not Turtle fans because Amell seems pretty sure that regardless, fans are going to enjoy themselves watching this movie. “I think that we’re nailing this one. Everyone seems to be really happy,” he says.

Amell himself seems pretty happy about his first experience filming in the Big Apple saying, it “has been really interesting and valuable for my career.” There are some definite differences he’s had to adjust to though as opposed to Arrow shoots in Vancouver. “In Vancouver if we need to do an outdoor practical shoot we close the street. You can’t do that here,” he explains before recalling that “my very first thing that I shot was at 42nd and 6th in Times Square and there were literally thousands of people on the street watching what was happening and yelling my name.”

The experience is one that Amell is grateful for and one that’s taught him a lot. “It really focuses you in and makes you concentrate on your work. You can’t get distracted by outside things,” he says. The shoot for TMNT2, which Amell says “is really fun,” concludes in a few weeks at which time Amell will return to Vancouver to begin work on Season 4 of Arrow.
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:05 PM   #59
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Some new info about Stephen Amell's take on Casey Jones.
http://www.thetvjunkies.com/stephen-...n-casey-jones/
So basically, this movie's main narrative focus is going to be Casey's origin. And the previous movie's narrative focus was April. And now we can see where the majority of character development is going to lie...

So first Amell says the movie will be "more kid friendly" than the first installment, but then he says it will be "a little darker than people anticipated"... dude, STFU. You're just saying what you think everyone wants to hear, and everyone (parents vs fans) can't agree on what we want. Just like this forum, pretty much.

Gah. This little snippet just adds to my overwhelming sense of angry "meh" for this movie.
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:07 PM   #60
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"this to me, based on everything that I’ve heard, feels like a Turtles movie as opposed to the first one"

That, at least, is an acknowledgement from someone officially involved that "yeah, we f*cked up on the first one."

If this was coming from an actual producer or director, and not just some actor desperate to upgrade from television to movies, I'd feel a little better. We shall see, Amell... we shall see.
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