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Old 11-26-2021, 10:20 PM   #1
sdp
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Exclamation Retroactive Continuity on the 1987 show

Have you noticed how in the past decade we've seen the 1987 elements and essence changed? It's becoming what people think the 1987 show was more than what it actually was. Here are some examples:

Casey Jones: He only appeared in 6 episodes out of 193, that's about 3% or so yet because of his popularity based on the first movie for the most part and him being a staple in every turtles media he now constantly appears as if he had been a main character like in other shows. 2012 showed him hanging with the turtles, he'll be included in the new OT video game, he got priority release in the NECA line etc.

Mutants: Now this is a misconception even from when the TMNT was a fad, mostly because of the toyline but we all know the turtles mostly fought either Shredder&Krang or Mobster/Mad Scientist of the day, Most mutants only got a one episode appearance and it wasn't until later seasons where they started to appear really. Yet we now live in an age where anything OT related has all the classic mutants who if ucky appeared in one episode for more than a few minutes. NECAs 1987 toyline is a good example of this.

Goofy turtles: For 1987 TMNT connoisseurs like us we know the turtles are never as goofy as people think they are, even the sillier moments in season 4 never get as goofy as what people think. We've seen it happen when the turtles return like in Turtles Forever or the second 2012 crossover and prety much any parody does this as well.

Other stuff: The latest mobile game based on the OT includes Karai as a playable character. OT April is now a fighter which mostly began in the 2000s. Krang became an utrom in 2012.

In general 1987 has become what people think it is more than what it actually is, I know this happens with pretty much most things but I feel it's been overdone with the OT.
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:10 PM   #2
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Here are some I could think of:

1. Krangs android body has only enlarged itself for three episodes of the original show, while the crossovers have had Krang's body go big as if it was a regular occurrence in the past.

2. 87 Michelangelo's nunchucks also appear quite frequently in his depictions after the old show, which isn't completely inaccurate but keep in mind that Michelangelo had his nunchucks for less than half of the Original Shows run.

3. There seems to be this idea floating around that the 1987 Splinter wasn't a fatherly figure to his turtles, but just a teacher. While his fatherly side wasnt explored in the old show as much as future incarnations, 87 Splinter still referred to the turtles as his sons alot, so it's not accurate when for example, Turtles Forever depicts the 87 Turtles as being shocked by how the 2003 Turtles call their Splinter Father.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question.

Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.

Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.

Last edited by FredWolfLeonardo; 11-26-2021 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 11-27-2021, 12:45 AM   #3
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Most of the "retcons" mentioned here aren't really retcons because they're not in the show itself. Before I get into some actual retcons I've noticed (or at least contradictions I guess), I might as well start by defending/explaining some of the "retcons" mentioned here.
  1. Like I already stated, a retcon isn't a misconception about what the show was like, it's when the show itself would ignore or alter details. It doesn't matter so much to the definition of a retcon if Casey was actually a major character or not, if people think he appeared more than he did then that is just a misconception. Now if there was an episode that tried to claim "he had tons of adventures with the turtles", then that would be a retcon but as far as I can tell no such episode exist.
  2. Making a video game that is more or less in line with the Fred Wolf cartoon but differing from it is also not a retcon. Unless it is literally part of the show itself or unambigiously meant to be in the same exact continuity, then it is not a retcon.
  3. This probably bears repeating because I know keep having to do it, the Fred Wolf cartoon is not the end-all-be-all of TMNT or what is popular about it. Casey was already an important character in the Mirage Studios comics by the time the Fred Wolf show came around and that is why he is also a major character in the movies and other cartoons. The 2003 cartoon was in many ways created to "correct" the kiddy branches of the franchise which largely meant to prune the Fred Wolf ideas, and because it managed to find success on it's own it has managed to influence the rest of the franchise to become something a little less like the Fred Wolf cartoon, even if it's a part more in line with the FW cartoon.
  4. Then there is of course the possibility that people in charge of making more TMNT material have simply just read more TMNT comics and drift away from wanting to make stuff more like the Fred Wolf cartoon. I don't think anyone actually believes Karai was a character in the Fred Wolf cartoon and put her into a FW based game by mistake, I think it's more likely they either read a comic or watched the 2003 show, thought she was cool and put her in anyway.
  5. As for the mutants, yes it is technically true they did not show up that much in the Fred Wolf show itself. They did however show up a lot in the video games, Archie comic books and several other things at the time. Not to mention that people could also simply get attached to them because most of them existed toy form, thus creating some kind of connection that simply doesn't have to be tied to a show or some other type of media. Like the previous point I made, the Fred Wolf show is not the only factor in determining what is popular about TMNT, even if it is in regard to something that is in it. Because these characters were more prominent overall, outside the show that is, then they could be much easier to remember.
  6. This also brings me to another thing, the Fred Wolf show just plain sucks. Nostalgia or not, the show is plagued with problems and most people would probably not like it if they went back and watched it. Since you are more likely to remember the "idea" of what the show was, coupled with the possibility that you won't actually want to watch more than ten episodes, you are more likely to just go for the "idea". And since the toys, video games, tie-in comics, etc. are what form the "idea", you are more likely to just go for that instead.
  7. And even if you can actually watch the show in it's entirety or at least more than 20-50 episodes, the random gangsters, aliens and mad scientists just aren't that compelling or interesting. So while a character like Slash may be completely shallow and barely appeared in the show at all, the basic idea of an evil Ninja Turtle and the fact that you saw him elsewhere, does still places him above Mad Dog McMutt in terms of being noteworthy.
  8. Then it's also worth mentioning that several ideas shown in the Fred Wolf cartoon, popular or not, tend to be rough or overly complicated and thus in need of drastic overhaul. Krang as depicted in the Fred Wolf cartoon is rather nonsensical. His alliance with Shredder is a major aspect of the show but it is extremely flimsy and never made sense because there is a clear conflict of interest. The backstory he has is also unnecessarily complicated, what with his unusual punishment and need of an android body. The show doesn't even bother to explain key details, like how he even met Shredder or why he wants to conquer earth. With these factors, it's no wonder almost every incarnation just makes him a rogue Utrom instead.
  9. The part about the turtles not being that goofy is also somewhat debatable. There was always a much more clear emphasis on humor in that show compared to the comics, and as the show went on that focused just kept increasing. The fact that show does actually make use of slapstick, fourth wall breaks, absurd premises, comic relief characters and episodes based around the turtles doing silly things ("Raphael Knocks 'em Dead", anyone?). And considering that most other incarnations and willing to go as dark as have their origin involve Shredder committing murder, why even bother trying to make the FW turtles seem serious? They really aren't in their own show anyway, maybe not to the extent show in Turtles Forever but still not very serious.

As for actual retcons in the show?... I think most are the results of carelessness rather than intention and might count more as contradictions. Like the second to final Baxter Stockman episode being ignored by the final one, or Krang's species being shown briefly as disembodied brain creatures before confirming his natural form is a lizard-monster. There is also that one time Bebop and Rocksteady claimed to have been Zoo animals before they mutated, or the Mondo Gecko episode seemingly implying that the Turtles' origin was more like the comic book with them falling directly into the ooze with no sign of Splinter's furniture in sight. But like I said, I don't think there was any intention behind these.
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Old 11-27-2021, 12:57 AM   #4
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I meant to change the thread title before I posted it but forgot, yeah I know they aren't traditional retcons but I couldn't think of a name to give to the reimagining what the 87 show was that we've seen since Viacom bought the turtles. Not that I don't mind discussions on retcons but it wasn't the real intention of the thread.
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Old 11-27-2021, 10:32 AM   #5
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I think the only real retcon is Krang being a Kraang from the 2012 dimension being banished to the OT dimension, which for all intents and purposes is meant to be the same Krang we see in the old show. Also to be fair the old show never explained exactly who banished him to begin with.

But yeah, we don't get to see actual retcons unless we get a new show that follows up the old one. If we get a new show I expect 3 things.

- the internet to somehow be a thing even though they'll most likely keep the turtles acting as if they're from the 80s. Idk. I just see the internet being too prevalent nowadays to pretend it doesn't exist, especially for an actual multi-episode series. Have em cameo in an ep and make a 'they don't know what internet is cause 80s' joke that works, but an ongoing show without the internet? Naw.

- Casey to be around more often, though he might lose his original personality since that works better for a guest character over a recurring one.

- retcon away all the Lord Dregg and Carter stuff cause no one cept us here at the Drome remember it. It'll probably be back to Shredder and Krang's world conquering/power the technodrome plots. If anything they might reintroduce Dregg but make him fit in more with the overall tone instead of having the drastic Red Sky tone and art shift.
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Old 11-27-2021, 01:04 PM   #6
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Having Casey Jones prominently around during the Red Sky seasons could have been the best thing to do to achieve the more serious tone they were trying to inject into the series.
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Old 11-27-2021, 03:01 PM   #7
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[*]This also brings me to another thing, the Fred Wolf show just plain sucks. Nostalgia or not, the show is plagued with problems and most people would probably not like it if they went back and watched it.
Your opinion plainly sucks.
I rewatched show few years ago and even now can jump into almost any episode and enjoy it for what it is.
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Old 11-27-2021, 04:11 PM   #8
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Your opinion plainly sucks.
I rewatched show few years ago and even now can jump into almost any episode and enjoy it for what it is.
Yeah, You could do that. Some people Here, at a TMNT forum, would agree with You. Most however would not, because most people aren't interested in rewatching kids' cartoons they grew up with and quite often don't end up liking what they see if they try.

And "enjoy it for what it is" would typically just be code for "I can't really argue against you, so I'm just going to lazily deflect your criticism and behave as if I said anything of substance".
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Old 11-27-2021, 05:14 PM   #9
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Having Casey Jones prominently around during the Red Sky seasons could have been the best thing to do to achieve the more serious tone they were trying to inject into the series.
Casey Jones works best in "down to Earth" adventures dealing with street thugs, since he can both infiltrate them and beat them up. There is no major point with Casey Jones accompanying the Turtles to the Dimension X and infiltrate the Technodrome.
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