Official Mutant Apocalypse Arc Discussion (SERIES FINALE)

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by HoySmallFry

end there was just a wasteland.

but instead we're left with defeat and desolation, and untold misery for our heroes

Yeah, that's bugging me. Sure, they found this Oasis place, a lush green area amid the rest of the destruction of the county (and planet?) where they can live out the rest of their days. But... if feels so alone, which makes me sad for them.

Humans don't have to exist for them to live happily, I guess, but I suppose I always liked the prospect of them someday maybe earning a little bit of acceptance in society and understandably maybe secretly longing for it. And with humans gone, it's like that chance died too. Just kind of a sense of loss for what could have been.


Way to fail them, Renet.


Avoiding spoilers... but if a bomb thing goes off in another episode (I assume?) it bugs me if viewers really have no idea who did it... I'd have thought a mutagen bomb would be Kraang involved, but if it were then why would they vanish.

[Tarris Vaal]

It may also have depended on what state Don was in immediately post explosion. We know his body was 'destroyed' we just don't know specifics. If it was a case of getting him back to a lab asap to make the transfer, then Raph and Don may have been delayed elsewhere, while Mikey got to the lair and found no one left.



Faster and Cheaper - I was curious, do you know how much the storyboards changed over time for the Apocalypse arc? I noticed that there are curious details in early storyboards we've been shown for other episodes which implied big changes in the planned lay out of a given story. - the A Foot too Big episode storyboard that was leaked for instance, had Don wearing his Vision quest outfit, but the released episode was well before then implying that the scene was originally part of the vision quest episodes.
I was wondering if the Apocalypse arc had any similar tweaks or story changes, or whether it was largely written out and decided before production started? Were there deleted scenes?
Certainly if you had such a tight deadline it sounds like it would have been hell to make any significant changes!

[Glitter Wand]

If April, Casey, Karai, Shinigami, the mutanimals, and Pete got mutated and/or underwent secondary mutations, what do you think they'd look like?

[asfaloth12]

Originally Posted by HoySmallFry

So having reflected on this arc, my over-riding feeling is sadness. Not because the episodes were bad, in fact I enjoyed them, but because this is the finale - the end of TMNT 2012, and it was such a downer. No matter the victories they accomplished, the friends they made, the allies they recruited, it all meant nothing, and in the end there was just a wasteland.

Is Renet and everything she said now not canon? I'm happy for stories to be flexible, but there's a big continuity bug here.

So yeah, overall I'm sad. The ending of such an amazing show should have been joyous (just look at Owari), but instead we're left with defeat and desolation, and untold misery for our heroes (and the rest of them we're just meant to not care about I guess?)

I would recommend you take a look at xandrea7's posts on the Season 5 discussion thread. You might like what you see.
Yes, Renet. A bit of a discrepancy there, right? Hmmm...
I'm sorry you're sad. I was wary of this arc, when I first heard about it, and was pretty upset after watching it. Now, after learning a few things, I'm feeling quite chipper.
Oh, by the way, according to one of the writers, they true ending is actually the Season 4 ending/Kavaxas arc. Now, that is a good ending. That is how you do a bittersweet ending.The rest of Season 5, you can take or leave what you want. Imagine your own future for the canon turtles.

[Faster and Cheaper]

Originally Posted by evan2000

I've always wondered, was motion capture ever used in this series? The characters' movement were so organic and life-like to me, I cannot imagine them being simply hand adjusted using software without some sort of real-world reference like motion capture data. Most notably the turtles, their movements were so fluid, and you can often pick up subtle details like breathing and muscle twitching etc. which made them even more believable. How was it done?

No mocap, but since you are asking it means we did our job well Mocap isn't really standard for TV series. It's standard for video games and VFX, and movies. There is a lot of fixing that goes into mocap work, it isn't as easy as some people think.

We do watch reference for maybe something more specific and challenging but other than that we just rely on the direction of the storyboards, our notes from our leads and directors, adjust to Nick's notes, asking our peers, and trusting in our abilities and experience. Oh and I forgot, we did have an extensive pose and animation library that meant you didn't have to do every run cycle from scratch for example. But the work there is blending it with your own animation and making it work as just putting it on the scene doesn't work.

Also time really is the difference maker. If TMNT was done on say a timeline of 4 weeks, then it wouldn't look as nice.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Faster and Cheaper

We do watch reference for maybe something more specific and challenging but other than that we just rely on the direction of the storyboards, our notes from our leads and directors, adjust to Nick's notes, asking our peers, and trusting in our abilities and experience. Oh and I forgot, we did have an extensive pose and animation library that meant you didn't have to do every run cycle from scratch for example. But the work there is blending it with your own animation and making it work as just putting it on the scene doesn't work.

that's what I'm finding out. you can have a small set of animation stock. like running, walking, etc. but sometimes you have to adjust. like if a character steps off a curb, you have to adjust a frame here, and a frame there, to make it work. I can't imagine how hard it is to make a car look like it's naturally bouncing off a rough turain. just trying to get stuff looking right on flat surfaces is tough. the tires keep on going through the damn square surface and it takes alot of adjusting to make it look right.

[Ninjinister]

Here's something I keep seeing across the internet that I don't understand. It's not even one person saying it, either... it's like 5 or 6:

"Renet can't exist in this timeline because all of humanity is dead"

Like... I know I'm an idiot, but I just don't understand this. How can humans being dead in one place in time stop a time-traveler from existing...? I mean they never said she was from the future, right?

[Allio]

even then, Renet exists outside of time and space.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Allio

even then, Renet exists outside of time and space.

Exactly.
I'm so confused.

Is this another one of those instances where someone is applying the rules of one piece of fiction's time travel laws to everything?

[IndigoErth]

Is she even a normal human? I never took her as being just a typical human. And she kind of exists in a place separate/between Earth and time and space, right? As long as she's been born before disaster struck and was already an apprentice on the job, then I assume she'd have been protected out of harms way thanks to her circumstances.

Maybe it's just a lot of TMNT newbies who don't really quiet get her.



But if she did have normal relatives on normal Earth... how sad for her. Even more-so you'd think she'd want to fix this.

edit: If MLP can get a movie, then they need to make one for this TMNT later that saves the world.

[Allio]

There are alot of things such as stuff like was it destined for this universe to end like this. There is the question of the passion of youth, Rent in Nick is probably the youngest in her time span and is probably the earliest of days she has met the turtles...It makes me wonder that her in her youth when she learn of these "great turtle warriors" that she so calls them if it was just her placing that image on them, the "turtle warriors" that she learns about might not even be the one from Nick, but else where. Infact, the "turtle warriors" could indeed be refferring to the incident of Turtles Forever where literally a group of turtle warriors save the multiverse...I would say that would be cause to label them to the time masters as such.

[IndigoErth]

'Course, even if she did mean the Nick Turtles, I guess being great warrior heroes who save the world does not mean you're going to succeeded every time forever. Even a hero can't necessarily stop an apocalypse.

Her meaning other Turtles is a good theory though. I could see how it might all be a blur to her between which Turtles are which.

[newfan]

The one thing I am curious about though, Nick have moved the arc due to damage control right? I get why, but did Nick not have any communication with the writers about the finale before it was made?

[Allio]

Then of course this young Renet probably to change this future but of course as Time Masters they aren't allowed to do that.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Is she even a normal human? I never took her as being just a typical human. And she kind of exists in a place separate/between Earth and time and space, right? As long as she's been born before disaster struck and was already an apprentice on the job, then I assume she'd have been protected out of harms way thanks to her circumstances.

Who knows. She could have been born IN this outside of space/time place for all we know!

[saber16]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The reason it's funny is because Ciro purposely put Mutagen Man's container at the very bottom of that sludge pit where Raph was fighting. They did it purposely as an easter egg for fans. It was like, "Hey remember Mutagen Man? Well we never de-mutated him, he's just dead now!"

It's called, "dark humor," it's something this show does well.

Kind of anticlimactic. It just seemed like they were leading to some kind of conclusion for the Donnie and his relationship with Timothy.
I would have loved to see some kind of pay off, like Donnie finally getting a chance to cure him, but Timothy gives it up in favor of his new powers and his addiction to mutagen, accepting his fate Mutagen Man and Don finally drops the burden of trying to help him and has to put him down for good.

[IndigoErth]

How the heck would Timothy have even gotten there? Does that stronghold sit above what remains of the Turtle's now flooded out lair? But why is the Oasis in, er, Indiana, now so close to NYC? lol (I was half expecting Oasis to be former Central Park.) This ending creates more questions than conclusions.



Renet... Hm, if there was a whole population of people like her where she is, maybe they can get together with the Utroms and/or other smart aliens and re-terraform the planet and repopulate it. (Or just go back and stop what caused it.)

[Chris]

If they were in NYC (and that's a big if) there's nothing to stop the Oasis being in Indiana. It's not like we know how long they were driving for. So the stronghold could be over the old lair. Or Timothy could have moved during the 50 years (by Don, stolen by other mutants or revived).

[Ashwolf]

Honestly I see the oasis either being

1. near the Mexico border cause of the design of the building Mikey was living at

Or

2. Near NYC cause of all the mutagen lacing in the canyon rocks.

But I don't think it's exactly at their old lair cause of the "home is wherever they r all together" thing.

I really feel that a lot could be been cleared up w at least 1 if not 2 more eps, like w April, shini, and the mutanimals along w the in between of how Donnie ended up in the robot body, how Mikey got separated from raph and Donnie (past how Mikey landed at least a few feet from them and how concrete fell on top of raph and Donnie), how Leo got that huge rig made along w how he got those sythns. Also would've been nice 2 have had more focus on Leo in general (whether fight wise or getting him 2 remember and recovery/regret 4 all he had done) the last ep than that tiny portion.

I'm not 100% sure on this but my theory from the 1st flashback is that karai was in the forefront of those ppl that were on the road so she got mutated again (whether or not it was her, idk but looks like her model) and that raph ended up w a bad concussion which impaired his memory 2 only include those that were immediately around him.

I still think that even though it was paradise at the end, Donnie wouldn't have lasted that long cause he didn't have any way 2 power his body.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Ashwolf

Donnie wouldn't have lasted that long cause he didn't have any way 2 power his body.

Now I see him standing out in the woods like a rusted up Tin Man.

But maybe for the best. His brothers were probably around how old? Being an immortal robot might not be all that great.