Are Razhar and Tokka underused?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by DestronMirage22

The whole "double-mutated" thing was completely idiotic, and both are just more examples of them slapping old names on their original characters for the sake of nostalgia or something.

You're joking, right? Why can't a character who falls into mutagen again transform once more? If anything that makes a lot of sense, and is something that is oddly not explored much in any other series.

Also I don't know why the hell you keep saying they slap an old name on him. He's a wolf mutant, that's all Rahzar is. Except now he has an actual backstory instead of just being a random mutant. I imagine in future incarnations the Nick version will become the definitive version of the character.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

He's literally one of the major villains of the show and got some of the most amount of screentime of all the new characters. What on earth do you want? All of Shredder's henchmen in any series basically function the same exact way. Look at Hun during 4kids Seasons 1-3, basically the same thing.

Name one relevant thing he's done since that second mutation as an individual. The only two things he's done is hunt key items (retromutagen and Kuro Kabuto) and team with Fishface to find Karai. He's done nothing since season 1 and 2 to stand out. No amount of screentime is going to make up the fact he's there only for action scenes since then.

Also, your Hun example, as it was when compared to Tiger Claw before, is again wrong. You know why Hun was remembered? He actually served as more than a henchman, he was his own character; he served Ch'rell before leading the Purple Dragons from being a small time gang to a criminal organization. Compare that to Rahzar, a lowly henchman who serves as action fodder despite having a promising start when struggling with humanity and was Shredder's top student. See the difference in impact?

The second Rahzar became stagnant, literally any character can dispense him. Scale Tail, Scratch, any character. At least his design is badass, I'll give it that.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I liked the Nick versions, despite their differences from the originals. I particularly liked not making Tokka a Slash clone.

I guess the best chance to make them established characters would've been to expand their OT versions by revealing their origins and making them recurring characters like the Rat King and Baxter Stockman.

I hope some future tmnt version expands upon their OT incarnations which I think had the most potential since they were much more intellegent than SOTO.

They also had character since they were depicted as savage outcasts yet very close friends who deeply cared for each other, attacking anyone who threatened to seperate them.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Name one relevant thing he's done since that second mutation as an individual. The only two things he's done is hunt key items (retromutagen and Kuro Kabuto) and team with Fishface to find Karai. He's done nothing since season 1 and 2 to stand out. No amount of screentime is going to make up the fact he's there only for action scenes since then.

Rahzar did all that you mentioned, had all of Seasons 1-2 where he developed, and he functioned as Shredder's henchmen for most of his run before he died and Kavaxas used him. Again, it's the same henchmen role any other character has in any series.

Also, your Hun example, as it was when compared to Tiger Claw before, is again wrong. You know why Hun was remembered? He actually served as more than a henchman, he was his own character; he served Ch'rell before leading the Purple Dragons from being a small time gang to a criminal organization. Compare that to Rahzar, a lowly henchman who serves as action fodder despite having a promising start when struggling with humanity and was Shredder's top student. See the difference in impact?

Outside of some backstory with Hun and the Purple Dragons and with Casey, for the majority of his appearances in Seasons 1-3, all Hun did was appear in the Shredder episodes as another henchmen to fight outside the Foot or Elite Guards. It wasn't until Season 4 after Ch'rell was gone that Hun started to breakout into his own character.

Go look at Hun's appearance in, "The Shredder Strikes, "Shredder Strikes Back," "Return to New York," "Secret Origins, "Rogue in the House," "City at War," or "Exodus." His literal only role was to be another henchmen for the Turtles to fight.

His character developed in some Season 3 eps otherwise where he had a rivalry with Baxter and Karai and "Hun on the Run" of course, but not so much in the others until Season 4.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I've added a poll. Place your votes in!

[DestronMirage22]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You're joking, right? Why can't a character who falls into mutagen again transform once more? If anything that makes a lot of sense, and is something that is oddly not explored much in any other series.

Also I don't know why the hell you keep saying they slap an old name on him. He's a wolf mutant, that's all Rahzar is. Except now he has an actual backstory instead of just being a random mutant. I imagine in future incarnations the Nick version will become the definitive version of the character.

I'm not gonna keep arguing with you about this. What I said still stands, and you've obviously put this show on a high enough pedestal that you can't even see it's own shortcomings.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by DestronMirage22

I'm not gonna keep arguing with you about this. What I said still stands, and you've obviously put this show on a high enough pedestal that you can't even see it's own shortcomings.

What on earth does that have anything to do with me thinking double mutation is an ok concept, or saying Rahzar is true to what the character is, essentially a wolf? I'm not even commenting on the Nick cartoon itself here, just the character origins.

[ToTheNines]

I guess I already knew this, but wow... cubed is awful at debating.

[neatoman]

Before watching OotS, my opinion was no. After watching OotS, I seriously wished they had been in the movie instead of Bebop and Rocksteady, so yeah, my opinion is kinda yes.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Before watching OotS, my opinion was no. After watching OotS, I seriously wished they had been in the movie instead of Bebop and Rocksteady, so yeah, my opinion is kinda yes.

I disagree, I think Bebop and Rocksteady were far better then Rahzar and Tokka, They had more to do then them.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I disagree, I think Bebop and Rocksteady were far better then Rahzar and Tokka, They had more to do then them.

When "more to do" amounts to dick jokes, fart jokes, fat jokes and slop jokes, I'm pretty sure confusing the word master for mama comes across as welcome.

[plastroncafe]

Nah.
I've got no patience for incompetent henchmen.

[Andrew NDB]

They weren't good characters to begin with. Burning calories to somehow force them into "cool" characters seem like a dumb pursuit. Why not burn those calories into making new characters?

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Rahzar did all that you mentioned, had all of Seasons 1-2 where he developed, and he functioned as Shredder's henchmen for most of his run before he died and Kavaxas used him. Again, it's the same henchmen role any other character has in any series.

His character developed in some Season 3 eps otherwise where he had a rivalry with Baxter and Karai and "Hun on the Run" of course, but not so much in the others until Season 4.

Let me repeat what I clearly stated: one individual thing he's done after the first two seasons. He's done nothing but serve as fodder.

Other henchmen, whether it be Hun or Karai (in 2k3 until she went solo), have done something of use to advance the story further. Rahzar has not and as I already stated he, alongside Tiger Claw or Xever, can easily be dispensed for another character. He's a blank state of a character since season 2, his design being the only good thing of him (besides Clancy Brown's voice, it seems fitting)

Outside of some backstory with Hun and the Purple Dragons and with Casey, for the majority of his appearances in Seasons 1-3, all Hun did was appear in the Shredder episodes as another henchmen to fight outside the Foot or Elite Guards. It wasn't until Season 4 after Ch'rell was gone that Hun started to breakout into his own character.

Go look at Hun's appearance in, "The Shredder Strikes, "Shredder Strikes Back," "Return to New York," "Secret Origins, "Rogue in the House," "City at War," or "Exodus." His literal only role was to be another henchmen for the Turtles to fight.

His character developed in some Season 3 eps otherwise where he had a rivalry with Baxter and Karai and "Hun on the Run" of course, but not so much in the others until Season 4.

Again, I said this:

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

You know why Hun was remembered? He actually served as more than a henchman, he was his own character; he served Ch'rell before leading the Purple Dragons from being a small time gang to a criminal organization. Compare that to Rahzar, a lowly henchman who serves as action fodder despite having a promising start when struggling with humanity and was Shredder's top student. See the difference in impact?

Hun actually developed, Rahzar didn't. The fact is the writing in 2k3 fleshed out Hun to be more than a generic bruiser. Rahzar has not had that opportunity at all; not withstanding seasons 1 and 2 with his backstory and mutations, he's just there. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.
_________________________________

As for the original question which I forgot to answer last time, they've both appeared three times now: Secret of the Ooze with their debut, Nick, and Fred Wolf. (technically six with Manhattan Project, Turtles in Time, and a brief cameo in Turtles Forever)

Honestly, Rahzar and Tokka aren't as engaging as I once thought. Their designs, especially the Nick ones, are very good. Otherwise, I don't really care for them as they're just generic, only one's a wolf and one's a turtle. I'd much rather have Groundchuck and Dirtbag make a comeback or introduce some new faces again as the heavy hitting monster duo.

[CyberCubed]

I told you what Rahzar did in Nick. Yes, it's true he didn't have much in the way of focus episodes, but that didn't matter because he functioned as the typical Shredder mutant henchmen. I agree with you 4kids Hun developed as it went on, but for the first 3 seasons he was largely stagnant outside of maybe one or two episodes like, "Hun on the Run."

Also Rahzar in general, a mutant wolf, is damn cool. I think people just love the idea of a mutant wolf being around, and that's what makes him stand out. I can't think of any other mutants similar to him, besides whatever the hell Dreadmon is.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I told you what Rahzar did in Nick. Yes, it's true he didn't have much in the way of focus episodes, but that didn't matter because he functioned as the typical Shredder mutant henchmen. I agree with you 4kids Hun developed as it went on, but for the first 3 seasons he was largely stagnant outside of maybe one or two episodes like, "Hun on the Run."

Also Rahzar in general, a mutant wolf, is damn cool. I think people just love the idea of a mutant wolf being around, and that's what makes him stand out. I can't think of any other mutants similar to him, besides whatever the hell Dreadmon is.

Dreadmon is more of a Werewolf then a mutant, since his change was magic based.

The IDW comic made him a mutant however.
http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadmon_(IDW)

[Andrew NDB]

Nick and IDW definitely don't share Laird's "A whole bunch of other mutants running around make the TMNT less unique."

Like, at all.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

They weren't good characters to begin with. Burning calories to somehow force them into "cool" characters seem like a dumb pursuit. Why not burn those calories into making new characters?

Because everyone here is on Memberberries.

They're just two mindless, powerful monsters. Their only "personality trait" is that they're ****ing babies lol. It was cool to see them in other media as a kid, and Nick had their fun with them, but these two are best left in the 90's.

[CyberCubed]

What's the difference between all the other old random mutants they brought back? Mondo Gecko is a parody of an 80's skateboarding teenager, yet everyone loses their minds whenever he's brought back into a new series.

[ToTheNines]

First of all, no one "lost their mind" over Mondo ****ing Gecko.

But he's a friend of Mikey's, and it's always cool to see the guys have friends outside of the family. And Nick had him voiced, by a former Michelangelo VA. Of course people got excited.

Also, the writers didn't have to literally invent a "jungle language" and make up FAKE Japanese words to give him his name in the story.