Any Fans of Pre-crisis Batman?

[MikeandRaph87]

Looking through Batman's history in comics I always go back to the mid 60s to the mid 80s. So many great stories,creators,and characters are found here more than any other Bat-time. To me the days of Earth-1 Batman was when the character was at his best!

[ZariusTwo]

I've loved just about every era of Batman (except New 52 Batsy, which feels quite empty), but I do long for the days of Steve Englehart

[MikeandRaph87]

Every era has its pluses and minuses but there is no era like the days of Earth-1 Batman that define the character. There is always a list of all-star creators but the stable at that time can't compare to any other. Julius Schwartz oversaw Denny O'Neil,Steve Englehart,Len Wein, David Verne Reeves,Frank Robinson,Bob Rozakis, Gerry Conway, Neal Adams, Dick Giordano, Carmine Infanto, Jim Aparo,Marshall Rogers, and Terry Austin. Best set of creators anyway its looked at!

I am also a sucker for stories with Batman,Robin, and Batgirl working together instead of legacies and other characters that protect Gotham. The Bruce. Dick, Barbara team is the best...okay aside from a certain green machine!

[Candy Kappa]

I love any good written Batman story, doesn't matter what era.

[Cipher]

I ordered Batman Chronicles Vol. 1 and 5 the other day (2-4 were out of stock and possibly out of print?) and am pretty stoked for them to arrive. I've never read any pre-crisis Batman before (or much Batman in general), but this seemed like a great way to start. I'm certainly not averse to the silliness.

Quick question: Am I correct in guessing that earlier volumes of DC's "Chronicles" collections are going/have gone out of print? If so, do they have plans for another Golden/Silver Age line in the near future, or am I just kind of SOL for now if I want to continue with the material?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Cipher

I ordered Batman Chronicles Vol. 1 and 5 the other day (2-4 were out of stock and possibly out of print?) and am pretty stoked for them to arrive. I've never read any pre-crisis Batman before (or much Batman in general), but this seemed like a great way to start. I'm certainly not averse to the silliness.

Quick question: Am I correct in guessing that earlier volumes of DC's "Chronicles" collections are going/have gone out of print? If so, do they have plans for another Golden/Silver Age line in the near future, or am I just kind of SOL for now if I want to continue with the material?

Yes, it is true. Earlier volumes are going out of print. If you want to sample the Golden Age Batman you need to get it now before the volumes get too pricey. Batman Archives which prints Detective Comics has Detective Comics#27(1st appearance) through #172 collected in 8 volumes. Prices vary online from $20-$50 per volume. Batman:The Dark Knight has 8 volumes collecting the first 37 issues of the Batman title going to early Summer '46 while the Detective Comics issues released through early Summer '51 have been collected in the other.
I Have both of the Robins and the Dynamic Duo and #7 of the 'Tec collections for Riddler's two Golden Age appearances. I have managed to get them all for $35-$40 range. Just remember getting older stories collected can be a little hurt in the wallet. Chronicles was the way to sample both Batman and Detective Comics before the out of print.

The reason I started this thread was I have come to appreciate early on when digging in the back issue bins the pre-crisis Batman stories more than any other. I am a regular poster at an outgrowth of dccomics.com's successor message board after it was shutdown to go social media ego stroking. I conituned a thread on there I had at the dccomics mb covering everything pre-crisis Batman. The whole repalcement message board is a friendly place to haunt. Here is a link if you are interested.
http://new.dcuwiki.net/forums/index.php

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Batman Archives which prints Detective Comics has Detective Comics#27(1st appearance) through #172 collected in 8 volumes. Prices vary online from $20-$50 per volume. Batman:The Dark Knight has 8 volumes collecting the first 37 issues of the Batman title going to early Summer '46 while the Detective Comics issues released through early Summer '51 have been collected in the other.

Yeah, I was aware of the Archives as well, but the higher prices put me off. The $10-$15 range for the Chronicles books on Amazon was what attracted me to begin with (and their completeness). I don't know if I'm comfortable paying much more than that, considering the material is such a grab-bag.

I guess I'll just keep an eye out for those early volumes.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Yeah, I was aware of the Archives as well, but the higher prices put me off. The $10-$15 range for the Chronicles books on Amazon was what attracted me to begin with (and their completeness). I don't know if I'm comfortable paying much more than that, considering the material is such a grab-bag.

I guess I'll just keep an eye out for those early volumes.

My advice would be to get two volumes to sample and the best price effective way would be chronicles. Amazon has the best deal. Depending on the size of your local shop there are sure to be a few copies of various Chronicles to pick up. I would suggest starting at the beginning with vol.1 as you did. You will get a grab bag of good or so-so stories. Nothing aweful. In vol.1 you meet Dr. Death followed by The Monk and then the first reoccuring villain Professor Hugo Strange before Dick Grayson joins the fight just before Batman#1 which introduced both Joker and Catwoman (in separate stories). In the second volume Clayface( the way Basil was originally concieved) appears. I don't think Penguin and Two Face appear until #3. Still #1 and #5 should be sample enough. The super villain storeis are the better stories as it is most of the time. Its a good change of pace from the current stuff. Check out my other message board if you have any questions or want to explore it further.

Edit: These are pretty goods reads. Batman by the decade. 1940s-1980s.

http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Forties.../dp/1401202063

This is how I sampled Batman by the decade x years back.

[MikeandRaph87]

I thought I would bump up the thread and ask if there are any comic readers who enjoy Batman of any time of the 40s up to the mid 80s'. I really enjoy reading the Earth-One days especially the Batman stories Frank Robbins, Denny O'Neil, Steve Englehart, Len Wein, Gerry Conway, and others.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I have Batman Chronicles vol.1. And of what I've read, Pre-Crises Batman seems quite good as a character.

[Leo656]

I like all Batman, really. I kind of have a distaste for the goofier 50s/60s stuff but the latter-day Silver Age stuff was really, really good. For the longest time, I felt like Frank Miller unfairly got all the credit for making Batman "darker" when Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams had way more to do with it going way back to the 70s.

You can't really go wrong with Batman of any era, though.

[CyberCubed]

Can someone educate me on how Batman comics of each decade were? I think it was something like this:

- Creation through the 40's = dark, gritty, a bit out of character and one dimensional because they didn't know how they wanted Batman to be yet

- 50's-60's = goofy, too much sci-fi, cheesy like the 60's show, Robin and the villains were too campy to be taken seriously

- 70's = first serious era of Batman comics, started to get stronger and better characterisation for Batman and his rogues gallery

- Mid 80's - 90's = dark modern Batman, sometimes too overboard, probably what most modern fans are well aware on

- 2000's era Batman = more of the same, too many retcons and Robin's introduced

- New 52 Batman = basically a cluster of everything before


Is this basically it?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Can someone educate me on how Batman comics of each decade were? I think it was something like this:

- Creation through the 40's = dark, gritty, a bit out of character and one dimensional because they didn't know how they wanted Batman to be yet

- 50's-60's = goofy, too much sci-fi, cheesy like the 60's show, Robin and the villains were too campy to be taken seriously

- 70's = first serious era of Batman comics, started to get stronger and better characterisation for Batman and his rogues gallery

- Mid 80's - 90's = dark modern Batman, sometimes too overboard, probably what most modern fans are well aware on

- 2000's era Batman = more of the same, too many retcons and Robin's introduced

- New 52 Batman = basically a cluster of everything before


Is this basically it?

Yeah, that's about right.

[Leo656]

Y'know, for barely anything, you could just pick up "The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told" in TPB and start there. Just saying.

Actually, go ahead and get "The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told", too, since there was only room for one Joker story in the Batman trade.

That's not going to cover everything, obviously, but it's a good sampling of the better stories from each decade. That, and the foreword and post-script go into a lot of great detail about how and why the franchise was changed a lot over the years.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Can someone educate me on how Batman comics of each decade were? I think it was something like this:

- Creation through the 40's = dark, gritty, a bit out of character and one dimensional because they didn't know how they wanted Batman to be yet

- 50's-60's = goofy, too much sci-fi, cheesy like the 60's show, Robin and the villains were too campy to be taken seriously

- 70's = first serious era of Batman comics, started to get stronger and better characterisation for Batman and his rogues gallery

- Mid 80's - 90's = dark modern Batman, sometimes too overboard, probably what most modern fans are well aware on

- 2000's era Batman = more of the same, too many retcons and Robin's introduced

- New 52 Batman = basically a cluster of everything before


Is this basically it?

Really you would have to get the decade samples that collected in Batman In The 40s'-Batman In The 80s' and see for your self to form your own opinion. It does a decent job in picking out stories but each of them could be better. There are also other trades to sample the character in different eras.

The first several months as a moody guy in a costume that was no afraid to kill, pretty much an extension of the earlier Pulp heroes. When Jerry showed Bill a young hero of Robin and wanting to widen the appeal of having the reader on the adventure and give Batman someone to talk to. That made him more of a role model type and swore off killing as of Batman#1 a few weeks shy of a year of his debut. From there it was 12 pages epics of Batman and Robin facing the underworld, Joker, Penguin, Catwoman and the occasional costumed crook like Two Face, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, and the Tweeds, and Cavalier. By '46 the darker tales that commonly saw victims, molls, and a few villains die it lightened up.

1947-1955 This timeframe saw the Dynamic Duo come into more surreal situations fighting in different eras thanks to Bruce's scientist friend who let Bruce and Dick mentally project themselves in King Arthur's Court among other times and places. Chasing Joker over a giant type writer would be likely.

1956-1963 Science-Fiction took a hold as Batman was visited by alien both good and evil and the concept that Mattel ran with of variant Batman was first realized her with everything from Bat-Baby to Rainbow Batman. Batwoman would woo Batman and fight at his side while despite his attraction to her told her it was not her place. Bat-Mite inspired by Mr. Mxyzptlk appeared reoccurring during this time and a half dozen appearances by Batgirl's precursor this time as does Bruce's trusty Bat-Hound. Its sometimes referred to as The Camp Family era.

1964-1969-The Earth-One Batman appears and gets a design change on his costume as Alfred is briefly killed off until Batman'66 producers announce he will appear. Batman plays detective even if on a bit of a goofy plot. Plainclothes baddies are common as well as one note costumed crooks. Villains Riddler and Scarecrow join the Rogues Gallery full-time. As this period progresses the camp takes hold in means of plot overturning the more detective feel that DC was going for.

1970-1984-A darker feel is seen in his surrounding with dark mysteries, and foes like Man-Bat and Ra's al Ghul and Killer Croc towards the era end who are more dark in origin and reflect the comic era. This is the era that showcases the classic Batman/Robin/Batgirl team working together or solo. While its decidingly moodier its still an era of fun stories and Batman himself having a lighter mood especially in other books such as Brave and the Bold, World's Finest, and Batman Family which featured Robin & Batgirl before it folded into Detective to save the title.

1985-1989-As the comic landscape matured Robin left the batcave and was replaced by an unpopular clone and later hotheaded street punk and for a time as Batman and Detective Comics wove the same story by the same writer became reminiscent of a gothic soap opera. Batgirl faded away and was sat up to become an information broker. The replacement Robin dies and reality consolidates into one earth with one continuity.

1989-1995- Batman would increasingly gain allies with a third Robin, Huntress, Spoiler, and Azrael. The more urban feel developed around '87 would still be felt and a newcomer reflecting Killer Croc's arrival but going a step further Bane wears down Batman and attacks him only to break his back as apart of the mega storyline KnightFall leading to Azrael and then Nightwing to take on the mantle of the bat briefly.

1996-2006- Batman would see a series of crossovers among a range of Bat-titles following KinghtFall experiencing a deadly virus outbreak, a horrific Earthquake and for trying to stop Lex Luthor from using Gotham's situation to gain political appeal set up for murderer of a girlfriend, Black Mask rises to prominence after a mistake made by an associate in War Games, and his thought to be dead Robin controversially brought back.

2007-2012 Batman's history and character is all examined in folded neatly by Grant Morrison while learning he was a son born lab experiment. Darkseid's failed invasion leads Batman onto a time traveling journey while Dick Grayson once again becomes Batman and this time Damian as his Robin. The reboot put the successful direction to a halt and Batman is rebooted and renumbered.

How is that for you? Broken down and summarized for a casual reader to get a better understanding of Batman and his publication history.

[Leo656]

That's a pretty spiffy piece of work.

And there are really great stories from ALL those eras, even if you have to dig a little or sift through some cheese. The gems are worth it. Some of the 50s stuff was pretty zany, but still fun.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

That's a pretty spiffy piece of work.

And there are really great stories from ALL those eras, even if you have to dig a little or sift through some cheese. The gems are worth it. Some of the 50s stuff was pretty zany, but still fun.

Ah, thanks. I was trying to break it down by overall directions and going by decades does not work. Just look at how different Batman is in 1980 compared to 1990 for example. Feel free to nit-pick the way I divided the eras. To prove your point about the weak 1956-1963 era just look at Batman#113 as it contains The Menace of False Face and The Superman of Planet X both notable classics in the same issue. Also, Penguin returns from his 7 year hiatus in a campy but great 1963 story Return of The Penguin.


http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_113

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_155

This is a panel that took place at the just completed SDCC. I can't find a video but this is a sample of what I love this era more than any other before my time or not.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=54428

[Leo656]

Yeah, and even some of the stuff that isn't great is still kind of interesting in a "Huh, well I'll be" kinda way. Like how there were like 4 or 5 guys that were Two-Face all the way through the 70s (and that he was originally named Harvey Kent). Obviously that's all been hand-waved away by history, but it's still kind of neat to read with the benefit of hindsight. There's a lot of stuff like that from way back when.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, and even some of the stuff that isn't great is still kind of interesting in a "Huh, well I'll be" kinda way. Like how there were like 4 or 5 guys that were Two-Face all the way through the 70s (and that he was originally named Harvey Kent). Obviously that's all been hand-waved away by history, but it's still kind of neat to read with the benefit of hindsight. There's a lot of stuff like that from way back when.

Batman:The Black Casebook tpb is something Cubed and others should pick up for that type of story. Its on Amazon or available through Diamond Distributing if you ask your LCS owner to order one for you.

Two Face was cured in 1954 and his Earth-2 counterpart actually got a happy endi g while Paul Solane a new anchorman carried on in Two Face's place. Meanwhile in regular continuity Two Face returns regularly starting in 1971 thanks to Denny O'Neil and a hunt for a treasure.

All three of those stories I mentioned,Robin Dies At Dawn, The Great Joker-Clayface Fued, The Joker's Comedy Capers, 50 Faces Of Batman,Challenge of The Calendar Man are glld tales from that era. It was not all aliens both good and evil,Camp Familynand silly plot resolutions.

Btw Cubed,what do you think of the breakdowns I gave you for the periods?

[MogwaiNinja89]

Batman has one of the best pedigree's of any longer running superhero.

I'm not a big Golden Age/Silver Age fan. I find many of the those older comics from the 50s/60s to be dull and one-note. Some of it can be fun and I get it was a different time period, it's just not for me.

With that said, Batmans early Bob Kane books are pretty good. His campy Silver Age books can be a fun diversion once in a while. I can't read them one after the other, but 2 or 3 once in a while is fun. I think all through out the 70s/80s/90s and 2000s that Batman has been wildly consistent. Not everything is aces, but for such a long running character with so many titles...it's a miracle so much of it is quality.