Will Peter laird ever finish mirage tmnt?

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Peter's situation with the TMNT is endlessly fascinating to me.

I mean, I 100% sympathize and respect his, what is hard not to describe as "disdain" for the TMNT, yet I still find it really interesting.

I mean, I get it - the struggle he went through to keep the franchise alive, the inevitable burnout, etc... but at the same time, I know I can't see it from his perspective, because I'm not him. So it interests me.

Especially in comparison to Eastman, who just seems to be loving the franchise these days. I'm really happy for Kevin, that he was able to break away and come back to the TMNT in a positive way. Maybe deep down, I'd like for Peter to experience the same thing one day.
Of course, he should be happy on his own terms, but you know what I mean.

I've long suspected, from reading between the lines in various comments that Peter has made over the years, that ultimately he had far greater aspirations than "just" being "The TMNT Guy".

Obviously he's happy with the money and the life it's allowed him to live, but he's not fulfilled by it. Which I can understand. Not only is it the only thing he's known for, but most people consistently reject his "vision" for it as the creator, in favor of something that's almost the complete opposite of anything he'd ever wanted for it.

If Kevin and Peter were two of the Monkees, Peter would be Mike Nesmith - the "serious" artist hoping to use the silly populist drivel to springboard into a "real" career while sneaking in as much substance as possible along the way - and Kevin would be Micky Dolenz - the guy who just wants to entertain and have fun even if he has to look silly doing it, and isn't overly concerned if the art is "quality" so long as people are entertained.

Like Nesmith, I suspect Peter is mostly happy with how it all played out, but ultimately, a little (or more than a little) bit bitter, as well. Because "this" was never, EVER meant to be their "Life's Work".

Everybody's different. While I may not ultimately love what Peter sees as "essential" for the characters and the franchise, and I didn't like the way he wrote the book on his own, I totally respect how he feels.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I've long suspected, from reading between the lines in various comments that Peter has made over the years, that ultimately he had far greater aspirations than "just" being "The TMNT Guy".

Obviously he's happy with the money and the life it's allowed him to live, but he's not fulfilled by it. Which I can understand. Not only is it the only thing he's known for, but most people consistently reject his "vision" for it as the creator, in favor of something that's almost the complete opposite of anything he'd ever wanted for it.

If Kevin and Peter were two of the Monkees, Peter would be Mike Nesmith - the "serious" artist hoping to use the silly populist drivel to springboard into a "real" career while sneaking in as much substance as possible along the way - and Kevin would be Micky Dolenz - the guy who just wants to entertain and have fun even if he has to look silly doing it, and isn't overly concerned if the art is "quality" so long as people are entertained.

Like Nesmith, I suspect Peter is mostly happy with how it all played out, but ultimately, a little (or more than a little) bit bitter, as well. Because "this" was never, EVER meant to be their "Life's Work".

Everybody's different. While I may not ultimately love what Peter sees as "essential" for the characters and the franchise, and I didn't like the way he wrote the book on his own, I totally respect how he feels.

Yeah. I suspect you're not far off the mark with that.

Also really goes a long way towards explaining his utter lack of interest in the property, whether he's writing more issues or just keeping his fingers on the pulse with Nick's cartoons, movies, and comics.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Yeah. I suspect you're not far off the mark with that.

Also really goes a long way towards explaining his utter lack of interest in the property, whether he's writing more issues or just keeping his fingers on the pulse with Nick's cartoons, movies, and comics.

I know you don't watch wrestling, but you're at least tangentially familiar with it, I'm sure. You know how some guys have to be, like, just totally stupid "characters" and stuff? We've all seen 'em, even if you can only think of "The Clown guy", or, "The 'mentally challenged' guy" or whatever.

A lot of them are actually super talented guys, and very good at wrestling, but for some reason or other - maybe not tall enough, maybe too fat, maybe have an unflattering hairline, whatever - someone will decide that they're only good enough to fulfill a type of role like that, and if they wanna be on TV, they'll have to play the clown. Usually, if they're not on TV anymore, they'll try and make a run of it as "someone else", doing something more true to who they really are.

The problem is, fans only remember them as what they were on TV, so if they want to keep making a living, they have to forever remain trapped in a role that they 1. Didn't create, 2. Didn't want, and 3. Can't stand. They're not allowed to reinvent themselves, or try and be taken more seriously; their fans demand a very specific thing from them, and don't care what else they have to offer. It's why when Dustin Rhodes takes a weekend shot at a high school or VFW once in a while, he's "Goldust", NOT Dustin Rhodes; he can be Dustin anytime he wants, but Goldust gets paid a lot more, even if it's not exactly what he wants to do anymore.

Actually, I'll give you an even better example that illustrates how tragic this can be. A "buddy" of mine, Brian, was semi-famous as "The Blue Meanie" - basically a big 300-lb weirdo who could do backflips, wearing Daisy Duke shorts and a tiny belly shirt. Just a goofy comedy gimmick. He didn't hate it, but eventually, he had a health scare, and committed himself to getting in shape. He lost about 100lbs and got totally shredded - you'd never believe it's the same guy - and started to try a new gimmick. But overnight, his bookings dried up, and promoters were telling him, "I need Fat Meanie, nobody wants to see Buff Meanie." So, he completely quit on himself again and ended up heavier than he ever was, because that's what his audience demanded. He's an awesome guy, but my heart sank when he told me that story.

So I understand the bitterness that people feel in any area of entertainment, when you're quite sure that you were meant for "more than This" and people just won't let you achieve it, because of their own demands and expectations of who You are and what You need to do for them.

[pferreira]

I answered this question elsewhere but with IDW reprinting the Mirage Volumes when they get to Volume 4 they'll probably figure out what they can do with that finale. I'm pretty confident they won't just leave it incomplete. At this stage it's more a case of 'when' than 'if'.

Originally Posted by Leo656

but the majority opinion among people who don't worship TMNT is that his artwork simply isn't professional grade. I question what other company in the 1980s would have hired him, outside of a few indies.

I had to Google Lawson and I agree with you. Lawson made the TMNT very cubed and box like. Not a fan of that style. Was never a fan of Dan Berger's art for TMNT Adventures either.

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I answered this question elsewhere but with IDW reprinting the Mirage Volumes when they get to Volume 4 they'll probably figure out what they can do with that finale. I'm pretty confident they won't just leave it incomplete. At this stage it's more a case of 'when' than 'if'.

I had to Google Lawson and I agree with you. Lawson made the TMNT very cubed and box like. Not a fan of that style. Was never a fan of Dan Berger's art for TMNT Adventures either.

Hopefully idw will conclude Archie too.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I had to Google Lawson and I agree with you. Lawson made the TMNT very cubed and box like. Not a fan of that style. Was never a fan of Dan Berger's art for TMNT Adventures either.

The first TMNT comic I ever owned was an issue of TMNT Adventures - 7, I think? The first Stump Asteroid one - and was generally fine with the artwork. Abruptly, a couple issues later, they had Lawson doing the pencils, and it just... didn't gel, let's say. Now, I had ZERO idea that he was a "big shot" from Mirage who had already had a ton of experience drawing TMNT before, but... frankly, when I did find out, I was even more disappointed.

7-year old me actually said out loud upon first view, "This is terrible, I hope they get the other guy back." Keep in mind, I grew up entirely on super-hero comics. My daily intake was Jim Aparo, Neal Adams, Curt Swan, Norm Breyfogle, John Byrne, Dan Jurgens, Jerry Ordway, George Perez, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez... just Google any of 'em, and that's what my eyes were absorbing day after day for 7 years up to that point.

To this day, I can't get on with overly-"stylized" art. I prefer things look "exaggerated, but still 'real'." I can appreciate the talent it takes to get good at drawing a certain way, especially in a way that's identifiably your own, but it's not necessarily something I enjoy looking at.

I'm merely stating a fact that when I saw Jim Lawson's art for the very first time at age 7, it was absolutely the "worst" comic book art I'd ever seen. After a first impression like that, I don't think I was ever going to be a fan. Even now, to me it looks like the kind of stuff you'd see in an off-brand bootleg coloring book.

It's fine if it doesn't bother other people, but it annoys me more than it should because I've always felt the Mirage book could have reached a much wider audience if it simply looked "cleaner" and more appealing. Like, "Tales Vol. 2" was easily, easily the superior book to Vol. 4, and what I always thought they should have kept closer to in the first place, except less of an anthology and more serialized. But the artwork was generally quite good, I felt.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Y'know what I admire most about you? Your mastery of reading comprehension compared to some folks. That and your super-human consumption of alcohol. But that's another thing.

Jesus... how do you even know that about me? Who've you been talking to?

I actually didn't chip in for or read your books, and I feel bad about that now.

It's not too late. At least, for "Odyssey" and "Origin." Arseniy is throwing out an amazing hardcover ultimate edition of "Odyssey" right now with extra stuff in it. And "Origin" can still receive pre-orders.

This is why if Vol. 4 ever gets a conclusion, I can't see it happening any other way. Who else would put the work in?

Right now I refuse to think of any Volume 4 that isn't spearheaded by Peter Laird under his 18 comics a year clause with Nickelodeon... because that's why he included that when he made his deal. He's only capitalized on it once so far, and that makes me sad. I don't want to consider any other alternative until it becomes clear he doesn't want to do it.

I have zero ambition to try and "fill in the blanks" on what he was building towards in Volume 4. Unless it is very, very clear he has no meaning to do so. He certainly owes no one anything at this point and can deliver whatever he wants... whenever he wants. For all we know the next issue drops in 3 months. After everyone has "Origin" in their laps, I do want to delve into "THE SHREDDER." After that... that might be the appropriate time to consider options. And if Peter isn't already doing something with Volume 4, I will absolutely open a dialogue and see where it goes.

[Leo656]

Very respectable.

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Jesus... how do you even know that about me? Who've you been talking to?



It's not too late. At least, for "Odyssey" and "Origin." Arseniy is throwing out an amazing hardcover ultimate edition of "Odyssey" right now with extra stuff in it. And "Origin" can still receive pre-orders.



Right now I refuse to think of any Volume 4 that isn't spearheaded by Peter Laird under his 18 comics a year clause with Nickelodeon... because that's why he included that when he made his deal. He's only capitalized on it once so far, and that makes me sad. I don't want to consider any other alternative until it becomes clear he doesn't want to do it.

I have zero ambition to try and "fill in the blanks" on what he was building towards in Volume 4. Unless it is very, very clear he has no meaning to do so. He certainly owes no one anything at this point and can deliver whatever he wants... whenever he wants. For all we know the next issue drops in 3 months. After everyone has "Origin" in their laps, I do want to delve into "THE SHREDDER." After that... that might be the appropriate time to consider options. And if Peter isn't already doing something with Volume 4, I will absolutely open a dialogue and see where it goes.

Well I tried to talk to him on his blog but he wouldn't respond so did you try to talk to him on his blog?

[Rooish]

I certainly don't feel he owes us anything and don't expect the final Vol. 4 comics to be made. That said, it would be nice to get a paragraph on how he planned to finish the series and get Mike back to Earth and stuff.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Toxin45

Hopefully idw will conclude Archie too.

The problem with Archie is that they've already been collected. Not sure they'd be collected again with completed stories.

Originally Posted by Rooish

I certainly don't feel he owes us anything and don't expect the final Vol. 4 comics to be made.

He doesn't owe us anything but eventually IDW will prompt him to go back and decide what he wants to do with Volume 4, either finish it or hand it over to someone else he trusts to complete it.

Originally Posted by Leo656

My daily intake was Jim Aparo, Neal Adams, Curt Swan, Norm Breyfogle, John Byrne, Dan Jurgens, Jerry Ordway, George Perez, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez... just Google any of 'em, and that's what my eyes were absorbing day after day for 7 years up to that point.

I know George Perez from the Marvel/DC crossover they had back in 2003. His classic style is my favourite and most true to what a comic book should be, i.e. it looks like a comic book. Googling a couple of the others it seems they have the same art style If so is there anybody left in the industry drawing like them because from what I see is just mediocre artwork. Marvel and DC comic books today are all dark colours and sharp, pointed angles on characters. There's also a complete lack of detail for the characters. Such a shame they've moved away from that style. I hope it doesn't totally die out.