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Old 05-18-2020, 04:55 PM   #21
IndigoErth
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Yep because as well all know the TMNT franchise was always known to be timeless and not a reflection of the decade they were released also they used meme humor for like 2 episodes at most.
On the contrary... the '87 series was a bit ahead of its time. What with the Turtle Com being like an early cell phone but with video already, April often researching info on her computer at Channel 6 as if she had internet, and Donnie sometimes using a portal device as if it were a big flat screen tv... before any of these things existed.

The only thing that really ended up a bit dated about the 2003 is the whole "cyber" thing like it's so cool in that time period and sounds a little silly now.
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Old 05-18-2020, 05:03 PM   #22
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Dick Tracy had already been using the Two-Way Wrist Computer for a while by then. A significant upgrade to the previous Two-Way Wrist TV and (most famously) the Two-Way Wrist Radio before it.

Just saying. Most cool stuff since 1931 has been ripped off from Dick Tracy.

Carry on.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:13 PM   #23
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Well we are allowed some level material intended for an older target audience in the form of comics
Not really. They're not allowed to have the Turtles kill anybody... so that kind of nixes the whole "ninja" thing right out of the bag.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:32 PM   #24
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Yeah, that's incredibly "WTF". Like no, the "good guys" don't need to be mowing down bad guys left and right, but there's no urgency or dramatic tension whatsoever if you know going into a story that nothing "too" bad can ever be allowed to happen. Whatever you're left with is totally toothless.

I mean, for as much to-do has been made about "Superman/Batman/misc. never kill anyone", they kinda do and have if there's a situation when there's no way out of it. The editorial mandate stands BUT it's also implicitly understood on the part of the readers that the One Rule might be broken if circumstances were dire enough.

Like why is one of your main characters carrying two swords if the worst that's ever gonna happen is he gives someone a bit of a scratch? He may as well have a Nerf gun. They all should, if "nobody ever gets hurt TOO bad" needs to be a rule.

F*cking Nickelodeon. Their ownership of the TMNT brand is nothing but a pair of handcuffs.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:57 PM   #25
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I dunno, Nick did allow the 2012 Turtles to eventually kill Shredder and show Splinter being murdered by him... but that's pretty bold for Nick and doubtful it will happen again...

edit: And they did surprise us by actually airing that Batman vs TMNT movie, with surprisingly minimal clean up if any. Me thinks Nick might not mind being just a little daring(?) but doesn't want to piss off the parents and censors.

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Dick Tracy had already been using the Two-Way Wrist Computer for a while by then. A significant upgrade to the previous Two-Way Wrist TV and (most famously) the Two-Way Wrist Radio before it.

Just saying. Most cool stuff since 1931 has been ripped off from Dick Tracy.

Carry on.
So the Apple Watch basically. (I think?) Though it did take longer to actually happen.

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Old 05-19-2020, 04:22 AM   #26
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Not really. They're not allowed to have the Turtles kill anybody... so that kind of nixes the whole "ninja" thing right out of the bag.
Yeah, that's a bummer. That's part of the issue with Nickelodeon's handling of the franchise.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:00 AM   #27
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I dunno, Nick did allow the 2012 Turtles to eventually kill Shredder and show Splinter being murdered by him... but that's pretty bold for Nick and doubtful it will happen again...
Since then, I've sometimes thought of:

Would that have been allowed if Shredder hadn't mutated into Super Shredder?
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:52 AM   #28
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Here's a question... Would Nickelodeon's "neutering" of the TMNT also happen or be the same thing (OR SIMILAR TO) if say Disney owned the TMNT? How much of the "neutering" or "handcuffing" is due to corporate branding and how much of that is due to public perception of the property? Obviously when Laird owned the TMNT 2K3 4Kids happened and, well, it was damn near a masterpiece (the first 4 seasons anyway). There's been a lot of mention, and obviously I agree, that since Nick has owned our beloved franchise that things have softened. Should this have been expected? Is it possible, going back to my OP, that we could see a turnaround... Can we get it in THEIR heads that TMNT should be ALL AGES, not specifically for young people and younger people and youngest people?
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:25 AM   #29
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On the contrary... the '87 series was a bit ahead of its time. What with the Turtle Com being like an early cell phone but with video already, April often researching info on her computer at Channel 6 as if she had internet, and Donnie sometimes using a portal device as if it were a big flat screen tv... before any of these things existed.

The only thing that really ended up a bit dated about the 2003 is the whole "cyber" thing like it's so cool in that time period and sounds a little silly now.
No not on the contrary just because a show uses future tech doesn't mean its "ahead of its time" like Leo656 said various of pieces of media have done that before, the 87 iteration wears the decade it was made from on its sleave and there are lots of things that would be consider dated and while I wouldn't consider it a bad thing(There are a lot of media I like where its a reflection of its decade) it kinda disingenuous to call Rise horribly dated just because it used meme humor twice and Leo dabs.
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Old 05-19-2020, 12:22 PM   #30
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And? It's still going to make that series show its age in not too many years. No getting around that.

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because a show uses future tech doesn't mean its "ahead of its time"
So you think the makers of shows are psychic? Like they already know what will exist someday? All shows that loosely predict things that come along later in real life are a bit ahead of the time on coming up with those things, yes. In some cases it wouldn't surprise me if some shows or whatnot even helped provide a little inspiration.
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:51 AM   #31
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Having tech and things that are commonplace now is not ahead of its time.

Ahead of its time means a show is considered innovative and radical by the standards of the time; more characteristic of a later age.

Disney's Gargoyles would be an example of ahead of its time as it explored concepts and situations that weren't commonly used in most shows. Disney Afternoon shows in the 90's were largely fluffy, and if dark concepts were introduced they'd be resolved with the bit of slapstick.


Gargoyles was one of the first TV shows that actually did tow the line on what was seen as kid-friendly and delve into the dark territory that shows such as Batman would take.

Ninja Turtles in every incarnation is more a product of its current age and the people who hold the right to it.

the 2012 series wasn't a mature show, but it was more cohesive then say rise is. The next incarnation may be more mature or it might go down the rails as far as characters.

Even if they did do a Turtle Version of something like Muppet Babies or Baby Loonytoons. Yes, you are going to get the cutesy storylines such as the "Learning to Share" episode or the "Don't be a tattletale" episode.

But if it can be presented like "Lone Rat and Cubs" had been where Splinter is a struggling parent trying to look after four baby turtles that he didn't really ask for. So while he is looking after them he is learning what it means to be a parent and figuring out how to provide for them and gradually teach them the skills they will need to know in order to survive in a world that won't accept them as they are. That could work.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:36 AM   #32
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Having tech and things that are commonplace now is not ahead of its time.

Ahead of its time means a show is considered innovative and radical by the standards of the time; more characteristic of a later age.

Disney's Gargoyles would be an example of ahead of its time as it explored concepts and situations that weren't commonly used in most shows. Disney Afternoon shows in the 90's were largely fluffy, and if dark concepts were introduced they'd be resolved with the bit of slapstick.


Gargoyles was one of the first TV shows that actually did tow the line on what was seen as kid-friendly and delve into the dark territory that shows such as Batman would take.

Ninja Turtles in every incarnation is more a product of its current age and the people who hold the right to it.

the 2012 series wasn't a mature show, but it was more cohesive then say rise is. The next incarnation may be more mature or it might go down the rails as far as characters.

Even if they did do a Turtle Version of something like Muppet Babies or Baby Loonytoons. Yes, you are going to get the cutesy storylines such as the "Learning to Share" episode or the "Don't be a tattletale" episode.

But if it can be presented like "Lone Rat and Cubs" had been where Splinter is a struggling parent trying to look after four baby turtles that he didn't really ask for. So while he is looking after them he is learning what it means to be a parent and figuring out how to provide for them and gradually teach them the skills they will need to know in order to survive in a world that won't accept them as they are. That could work.
TMNT can go in any direction. But regardless the origin remains the same.

I wish a new series went in the direction of the IDW comics. That is like the standard for how to do TMNT stories.

I would like a show centered around Mutant Town. I think it would be a fun show to do as an anthology series. You could have the Turtles be a part of it. But show us how things are like for the Mutants trying to live a normal life.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:23 AM   #33
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Having tech and things that are commonplace now is not ahead of its time.

Ahead of its time means a show is considered innovative and radical by the standards of the time; more characteristic of a later age.
Yeah, I don't think we're all on the same page (or same book for that matter) on this topic or what is being discussed.
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #34
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TMNT can go in any direction. But regardless the origin remains the same.

I wish a new series went in the direction of the IDW comics. That is like the standard for how to do TMNT stories.

I would like a show centered around Mutant Town. I think it would be a fun show to do as an anthology series. You could have the Turtles be a part of it. But show us how things are like for the Mutants trying to live a normal life.
TMNT is not Zootopia, but alright.
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:29 PM   #35
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Yeah, I don't think we're all on the same page (or same book for that matter) on this topic or what is being discussed.
Nah its the fact they you are using that phrase incorrectly especially when video communication has been in fiction for decades even before the OT turtles did it so it wasn't being "ahead of its time" but rather "following the current trend" when it comes to the appearance of future tech.

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the 2012 series wasn't a mature show, but it was more cohesive then say rise is. The next incarnation may be more mature or it might go down the rails as far as characters..
Yeah I disagree with that fact 2012 was anything but cohesive especially compared to Rise.
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:40 PM   #36
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For the love of god, just Google shows and movies that predicted future inventions. Interesting read and maybe you'll understand what the heck I was talking about.

I never said the Turtles as a show did anything first, they are but one example, and all I did was point out a few instances of them having things that to some extent relate to things WE IN REAL LIFE later had that did not exist at the time of the episodes (so no, I'm not misusing that term).... which can be a fun topic to discuss, but no, you want to make something into a fight again.


edit: A good example that kind of blew my mind a little is that the 1990 movie Darkman supposedly predicted the 3D printing of human organs and skin, which is something that is right now in the process of becoming a reality.

But back to TMNT...

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Old 05-20-2020, 01:44 PM   #37
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I'll take responsibility as I was the first one to be pedantic in this thread.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:39 PM   #38
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For the love of god, just Google shows and movies that predicted future inventions. Interesting read and maybe you'll understand what the heck I was talking about..
I know what you are talking about that still doesn't mean "ahead of its time" by that logic Rise must be ahead of its time because Donnie made portable flying devices and extra limbs.

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Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
I never said the Turtles as a show did anything first, they are but one example, and all I did was point out a few instances of them having things that to some extent relate to things WE IN REAL LIFE later had that did not exist at the time of the episodes (so no, I'm not misusing that term).... which can be a fun topic to discuss, but no, you want to make something into a fight again.
Yeah thats because at the time it was considered futuristic tech and again by that logic almost any show that has some semblance of futuristic tech is "ahead of its time".

Also this is the definition for the term which Victory Angel already stated



So lets see its NOT innovative or radical by the standards of time because lots of media was doing it before and its not that much of a characteristic of a later age because in the context of the show its considered hi tech piece of equipment that normal people don't have. That's all I have to say and if you want to take it up with anyone blame the people who actually made up the term.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:10 PM   #39
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by that logic Rise must be ahead of its time because Donnie made portable flying devices and extra limbs.
No, because you're just unnecessarily nitpicking word use (when my intended use of the term remains accurate) and either still don't get or purposely ignore what I was saying, as that 'Rise' comment is totally off the mark to the entire point.

Those inventions of 'Rise,' like any series, would only be ahead of their time once that show is in the past AND we by then have the relative equivalent of those inventions in real life. (see: more characteristic of a later age)

Simply put... shows are not ahead of their time (YET) when those inventions are only fiction... but they were when the equivalent of those inventions become real.

Maybe something in 'Rise' will be someday, but we won't know that until then. It's retroactive.

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Old 05-20-2020, 03:34 PM   #40
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You reminded me to finally get around to watching "Darkman". I don't think I've ever seen it in full!
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