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Old 02-18-2005, 08:03 PM   #21
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Or you could get on Yahoo and we can talk about the days of old...
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Old 02-18-2005, 09:24 PM   #22
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Or you could get back on topic! Hmph...some mods you two are.
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Old 02-18-2005, 10:18 PM   #23
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I don't care if it's cancelled now. I got my answer to the "Great Klingon Mystery" that's been causing me to pull my hair out for years. I know in reality it was a matter of budget and current makeup technology, but I really wanted an in-show explanation.
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Old 02-19-2005, 01:22 PM   #24
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Yeah, but still. I'm done with American TV. Star Trek was the only thing holding me on.
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Old 02-19-2005, 01:33 PM   #25
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I don't care if it's cancelled now. I got my answer to the "Great Klingon Mystery" that's been causing me to pull my hair out for years. I know in reality it was a matter of budget and current makeup technology, but I really wanted an in-show explanation.
Now THAT was the most respectful thing given to Star Trek in years, taking the time to acknowledge a budget flop as a legit occurence is something Enterprise should have done more frequently
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:18 PM   #26
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Just got through re-watching all of season 1. Maybe it's because of me dealing with STD seasons 1 and 2 and... let's just say, eh, "large parts" of STP, but I really had a whole different viewing experience this time around. I mean, I never hated ENT but I seem to recall really not being crazy about season 1 and 2.

Some really interesting moral dilemmas at times. In one, on a planet with two races, Archer has to decide if he saves the more advanced one that's dying out... or do nothing and let them die in order to allow the less advanced race a chance to thrive. It's interesting.

They definitely pushed things way too fast at the start of the season. After the third episode or so, it already feels like they've been in space forever and used to everything.

The Suliban storyline and the Temporal Cold War that Paramount forced them to do is interesting at times, but other times it feels just that... forced. Like almost at the end of the season, they finally make it to Risa (which they'd been talking about going for 2-3 episodes) and Archer's story is just Suliban, Suliban, Suliban. When all I really wanted to see in it is the crew letting their hair down and having fun. There's a little bit of that... but just for Hoshi. For everyone else, all bad. Like Trip and Malcolm meet 2 girls and it ends up they're dudes who just rob them.

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Old 03-04-2020, 03:14 PM   #27
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Some really interesting moral dilemmas at times. In one, on a planet with two races, Archer has to decide if he saves the more advanced one that's dying out... or do nothing and let them die in order to allow the less advanced race a chance to thrive. It's interesting.

The Suliban storyline and the Temporal Cold War that Paramount forced them to do is interesting at times, but other times it feels just that... forced. Like almost at the end of the season, they finally make it to Risa (which they'd been talking about going for 2-3 episodes) and Archer's story is just Suliban, Suliban, Suliban.
Was that the Phlox dilemma episode? That's a good one.

I personally really enjoyed the Suliban / Temporal Cold War story arcs, and wish they hadn't been dropped by the wayside eventually. Still no conclusion as to who Future Guy was. (Though theories abound...)

For me, the best parts of Enterprise are the Andorians and the Vulcans (and Tellarites). Great stuff.
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Old 03-05-2020, 12:31 AM   #28
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Watching things like Voyager and Enterprise now in a completely different context you definitely appreciate them more than when they were first airing.

Voyager seemed to figure out the show it was supposed to be midway through season 3 and really became the best version of itself in Season 4 onwards.

Problem is it coincided with the television landscape significantly shifting towards less cutsey episodic tv towards more serious arc driven shows. The writing of Voyager even in it's new found imperial phase seemed stodgy and out of date by comparison.

There's also the fact that the best of Voyager rarely stacked up against the best of TNG. It often felt you were watching the same show but with better fx and lesser writing. Fans begged Berman and Braga to fix these problems to do arcs and trust your audience to follow, give your characters other than Seven and the Doctor growth, exploit the show's unique points like The Maquis more than one obligatory episode a year. Berman and Braga just seemed to dismiss these valid complaints as Trekkie nitpicking and the relationship between them and the fans became toxic.

Enterprise made some baby steps into addressing some of these issues but frankly it was too little too late.


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Was that the Phlox dilemma episode? That's a good one.

I personally really enjoyed the Suliban / Temporal Cold War story arcs, and wish they hadn't been dropped by the wayside eventually. Still no conclusion as to who Future Guy was. (Though theories abound...)

For me, the best parts of Enterprise are the Andorians and the Vulcans (and Tellarites). Great stuff.
Dear Doctor is a good one. Not sure I agree with the outcome. Even if Phlox was right that the evolving Menk were to become the dominant species on the planet why did they think that saving the then more evolved but dying Valakians would impede that or that they would even want to?

Had this been a Voyager episode we would have likely found out that the Valakians were bad guys exploiting the poor Menk and so justify the decision they should die off. The fact that you can actually debate the ending to Dear Doctor is to it's credit.

Wasn't a huge fan of the Temporal Cold War episodes other than the one the Tholians. It was clear they no real plan and didn't know we're they were going with it. It was no suprise to learn years later they had no idea who Future Guy was.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:29 PM   #29
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Holy mother of necroposts!

I have nothing else to say, since I haven't watched anything Star Trek, except for JJ movies and an old movie about "Viger".

Maybe I should.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:41 PM   #30
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Was that the Phlox dilemma episode? That's a good one.
Yeah! Where he makes the cure but doesn't want Archer to hand it over.

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I personally really enjoyed the Suliban / Temporal Cold War story arcs, and wish they hadn't been dropped by the wayside eventually. Still no conclusion as to who Future Guy was. (Though theories abound...)
If it was up to me, I'd put STD to some good and wrap that up somehow. They can even get back James Horan, who played him. A very nice guy, btw, who played a badass on Highlander.

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Watching things like Voyager and Enterprise now in a completely different context you definitely appreciate them more than when they were first airing.
Absolutely. And especially after such a drought of any "real" Trek for so long.

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There's also the fact that the best of Voyager rarely stacked up against the best of TNG.
The best of VOY rarely stacked up against even some of the middle of the road episodes of TNG. But it was never BAD, IMHO, it just kept an even keel of "OK."

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It often felt you were watching the same show but with better fx and lesser writing. Fans begged Berman and Braga to fix these problems to do arcs and trust your audience to follow, give your characters other than Seven and the Doctor growth, exploit the show's unique points like The Maquis more than one obligatory episode a year. Berman and Braga just seemed to dismiss these valid complaints as Trekkie nitpicking and the relationship between them and the fans became toxic.
Huh. I'd never heard that or I've forgotten that.

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Enterprise made some baby steps into addressing some of these issues but frankly it was too little too late.
I think the biggest "problem" with ENT, is that it was in too much of a hurry to dive right into telling exactly the same kinds of stories as VOY and TNG. Like you could almost take any script from ENT season 1 (or 2, if memory serves), swap in the various TNG or VOY characters and it'd be about the same. Which I guess is true of even "Dear Doctor," I guess (like, replace Phlox with the Doctor and Archer with Janeway... it could be the same episode), but I don't mind because it's so good.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if 90% of the scripts for season 1 and 2 were rejected and repurposed scripts from TNG and VOY, pulled out of the drawer.

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Dear Doctor is a good one. Not sure I agree with the outcome. Even if Phlox was right that the evolving Menk were to become the dominant species on the planet why did they think that saving the then more evolved but dying Valakians would impede that or that they would even want to?
They said the Valakians would somehow keep the Menk suppressed and prevent them from flourishing.

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I have nothing else to say, since I haven't watched anything Star Trek, except for JJ movies and an old movie about "Viger".

Maybe I should.
You've got a lot to watch.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:57 PM   #31
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Holy mother of necroposts!

I have nothing else to say, since I haven't watched anything Star Trek, except for JJ movies and an old movie about "Viger".

Maybe I should.
I avoided Enterprise like the plague when it was new. Always felt like it was a step back and unnecessary.

Then I went back and watched it on Netflix years later during a sci-fi dry spell. Easily one of my favorite Treks and the crew easily becomes one of the most likeable crews....

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Old 03-06-2020, 05:19 AM   #32
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I think the biggest "problem" with ENT, is that it was in too much of a hurry to dive right into telling exactly the same kinds of stories as VOY and TNG. Like you could almost take any script from ENT season 1 (or 2, if memory serves), swap in the various TNG or VOY characters and it'd be about the same. Which I guess is true of even "Dear Doctor," I guess (like, replace Phlox with the Doctor and Archer with Janeway... it could be the same episode), but I don't mind because it's so good.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if 90% of the scripts for season 1 and 2 were rejected and repurposed scripts from TNG and VOY, pulled out of the drawer.
Enterprise seemed to be more of a prequel to the 24th century series than the original Star Trek which makes sense as Braga never really cared for the original series. Allusions to holograms and holographic environments, the Klingons looking and acting like their 24th century counterparts, Fherengi and Borg showing up (although Regeneration was suprinsingly one of the good ones). I even think the Temporal Cold War was a backdoor for possible guest appearances from the 24th century. Deana Troi: Temporal Agent.

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They said the Valakians would somehow keep the Menk suppressed and prevent them from flourishing
Phlox compared it to Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens existing on Earth at the same time which was a poor comparison. Both the Menk and Valakians were more evolved than civilised early man. The idea that one would have to die off for the other to thrive seems dodgy.

The implication seemed to be that if the Valakians were still around as the Menk evolved they'd try and suppress them. This doesn't square with Phlox pointing out earlier in the episode that the Menk were not oppressed and were treated ex as well as they wanted. There's no reason to think the Valakians would necessarily try and oppress the Menk. Even if they did they'd likely fight for their civil rights much the same way oppressed minorities on Earth did.

So yeah I was Team Archer on this one until he did his last minute change of heart.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:51 AM   #33
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You've got a lot to watch.
This is the reason, I most likely will never watch it.
I can't even finish last two seasons of Stargate Atlantis, which I've started watching back in 2014.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:32 PM   #34
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This is the reason, I most likely will never watch it.
I can't even finish last two seasons of Stargate Atlantis, which I've started watching back in 2014.
Atlantis was all right... though not much of an ending. Not as frustrating with how Stargate Universe was left.

About halfway into season 2 of Enterprise again. Yeah, I can see it kind of coming off the rails a bit. The episode where Malcolm forgets his communicator on the planet... that was pretty bad. And why couldn't they just lock onto it and transport it away, exactly? The one where T'Pol plays the part of her grandmother in a 1950s episode with Vulcans settling on Earth was decent.
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Old 03-16-2020, 12:38 AM   #35
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More good stuff in season 2! I really dug the episode where Archer ends up sent to Rura Penthe by the Klingons. "The Crossing" was pretty creepy, too, with the giant ship that swallows Enterprise and the energy being replacing the crew. The Enemy Mine sort of episode with Trip on the planet slowly getting hotter was sound. "Cogenitor" with the third gender and Trip being super curious about it probably hasn't aged super well, at least in the eyes of many.

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Old 03-16-2020, 08:06 AM   #36
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More good stuff in season 2! I really dug the episode where Archer ends up sent to Rura Penthe by the Klingons. "The Crossing" was pretty creepy, too, with the giant ship that swallows Enterprise and the energy being replacing the crew. The Enemy Mine sort of episode with Trip on the planet slowly getting hotter was sound. "Cogenitor" with the third gender and Trip being super curious about it probably hasn't aged super well, at least in the eyes of many.
That Congenitor episode was really similar to the TNG episode where Riker falls in love with a monogender alien or something like that... and it (sorry, don't know appropriate pronouns here) gets sent to conversion therapy at the end of the episode.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:45 PM   #37
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That Congenitor episode was really similar to the TNG episode where Riker falls in love with a monogender alien or something like that... and it (sorry, don't know appropriate pronouns here) gets sent to conversion therapy at the end of the episode.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Definitely similar!

Ah, I'm back into season 3. This time around, I'm getting big "Attack of the Clones" vibes with those Xindi meetings. Like with the meetings between the Trade Federation, the Geonosians and all that. I do like the vibe of them being really pissed off and heading into the Expanse with Marines, as a change of pace. They definitely made T'Pol the main player in the "we better sex up the show a bit!" push. Just hit the "everyone goes down to the planet in the Expanse and transforms into cavemen-like aliens"... eh, I get what they were going for but it's a little embarassing.

Also, what's with them continuously saying "more power to the hull plating!" "We just brought hull plating back online!" "Forward hull plating is off-line!" That's... eh, what? It's like writers were writing "shields" and then they had to correct it on set or something. Or it's the dusting off old, unused TNG or VOY scripts thing.

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Old 03-21-2020, 04:29 PM   #38
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Saw "Twilight" in season 3. Great episode. Archer gets some kind of trans-phasic eels in his brain from a distortion that takes away his short term memory... then 12 years later after the Xindi destroy Earth Phlox realizes if he can neutralize the eels, Archer will go back in time and change history. It's really well done. Also fun that the human settlement is Ceti Alpha V.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:28 AM   #39
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Finished season 3. An amazing season! My faith in my memory of it is restored... but oh man, what a terrible season finale. This I had forgotten entirely. When they get their spectacular defeat of the Xindi weapon... suddenly they're in an alternate WWII? All I wanted to see was them welcomed home with bells. Kind of like the series finale of VOY.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:54 AM   #40
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Damnit, I keep looking at this thread thinking it's STD that has been cancelled...
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