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Old 03-24-2020, 03:24 PM   #21
CyberCubed
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It's satisfying endings for them. It's not like any villain would be literally killed off in the show. It's the best ending they could get for an old cartoon.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:31 PM   #22
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Why anyone expected "closure" in the Fred Wolf cartoon character "arcs" is fvcking beyond me.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:35 PM   #23
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Why anyone expected "closure" in the Fred Wolf cartoon character "arcs" is fvcking beyond me.
Because the show takes itself semi-seriously?
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The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:03 PM   #24
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As long as we're adding characters who never saw closure, I will add Mona Lisa. She had one episode, and was implied to be working (possibly with Donatello's help) on a way to reverse her mutation at the end of it. But nothing was ever said or shown about her again.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:17 PM   #25
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Because the show takes itself semi-seriously?
Because fans took the show more seriously than it was meant to. If you actually think about how characters are treated, there shouldn't be much of a reason to care.

Fred Wolf characters largely exist in the "bubble stories" that come with the episodic format. Their arcs are more or intended to begin and end in the same episode, with a "I think we haven't seen the last of X!" added at times to signal a possible but not required return. Expecting characters to get "closure", or even come back, in such a show is rather odd because their arcs were usually over in whatever episode they last appeared in (or were at least meant to be regardless of how unsatisfying it might have seemed like). If the show had an actual ongoing narrative (and trapping the Technodrome in a new place every season finale does not count as progress), then it would make sense to be bothered that characters did not come back, like in the Nickelodeon cartoon where the Mutagen Man was promised a return that never happened.

There are of course characters who did appear a lot more, and in that regard I'm somewhat more sympathetic. Characters like Burne, Vernon, Irma, Bebop and Rocksteady were major characters and the fact that their last appearences were not treated as special in any way is off. In such cases I will agree that it is off that they just went away without any indication that they would and without explaination for what happened to them. Shredder and Krang also just sort of go away but to me it seemed they were saved for a potential season 11, just in case they got one and felt like returning to the status quo, not really the same thing as dropping them. The reason I think it might have been considered easy to drop Bebop, Rocksteady and the Channel 6 crew, might have been because those characters were designed to serve a function in the dynamic, a dynamic that was altered and no longer had a place for them. Not that they were all that interesting characters to begin with, but it's where I can see it both being reasonable on the creative side and annoying for the audience.

Then you have characters like Baxter Stockman who fall somewhere in between. They're not frequent enough to be consider major characters but their appearences are not exactly insignifigant either, that's where it gets weird and the cracks show. The Baxter example itself shows how poorly handled a character can get if they're neither a one off or one of the main stars. Basically every episode to feature him after he turns into a fly begins and ends with him being trapped in a different dimension, and the last two episodes to feature him doesn't even keep that straight. Baxter Stockman's treatment works more like a demonstration of why the writing of the show sucks, more than it does as a character arc or status quo.

To sum up, There are three basic reasons you shouldn't really care:
  • Characters who appeared in less than five episodes were meant conclude their arc in whatever episode ended up being the last.
  • Major characters were only meant to be around until they stopped having a purpose.
  • Minor characters could just end up being a demonstration of how the writers failed to keep things straight.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:35 PM   #26
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Because the show takes itself semi-seriously?
Sure it did.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:40 PM   #27
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Since your awesome CKD let's just agree to disagree on that. We both agree that Rise does not so let's go with that.

Were there any characters in the 2003 cartoon that did not get a proper closure aside from leaving Darius Dunn free? I like to think that Tom saw this and decided to use Darius as fodder to build Splinter's Foot to bring him to justice.
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Old 03-24-2020, 05:03 PM   #28
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There are of course characters who did appear a lot more, and in that regard I'm somewhat more sympathetic. Characters like Burne, Vernon, Irma, Bebop and Rocksteady were major characters and the fact that their last appearences were not treated as special in any way is off. In such cases I will agree that it is off that they just went away without any indication that they would and without explaination for what happened to them. Shredder and Krang also just sort of go away but to me it seemed they were saved for a potential season 11, just in case they got one and felt like returning to the status quo, not really the same thing as dropping them. The reason I think it might have been considered easy to drop Bebop, Rocksteady and the Channel 6 crew, might have been because those characters were designed to serve a function in the dynamic, a dynamic that was altered and no longer had a place for them. Not that they were all that interesting characters to begin with, but it's where I can see it both being reasonable on the creative side and annoying for the audience.[/LIST]
Funnily enough, the non-endings of Shredder, Krang, Irma, Burne, Vernon, Bebop and Rocksteady didn't bother me at all, since as you said, there was no place for their dynamic in the Red Sky seasons as opposed to the turtles, April and Splinter who were central characters so they still got one last hurrah in the final episode.

With that being said, I thought that all the above listed characters (barring Burne) who weren't fully wrapped up in the Red Sky seasons, were given a fair ending in the last episode of season 7, which was the last season that revolved around them:

1. Shredder and Krang's last appearance in season 7 has them finally stripped from the technodrome, something which they had for the rest of the show prior.

2. Bebop and Rocksteady are effectively the same as Shredder and Krang, but as the henchmen, prove their loyalty by the end when they rescue their bosses from capture.

3. Irma showed off her badassery in full form in 'Shredder Triumphant', proving herself to be a useful ally to the turtles.

4. Vernon ran away in the end, which is to expected of him because he is a coward.

5. Admittedly, Burne just faded away into nothingness during 'Shredder Triumphant', but he did get a pretty conclusive, albeit bitter change of character in the following episode when he declares that he will do everything in his power to give the turtles a bad name (not to mention, he lost the Channel Six building too).
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The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 03-24-2020, 05:09 PM   #29
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Funnily enough, the non-endings of Shredder, Krang, Irma, Burne, Vernon, Bebop and Rocksteady didn't bother me at all, since as you said, there was no place for their dynamic in the Red Sky seasons as opposed to the turtles, April and Splinter who were central characters so they still got one last hurrah in the final episode.

With that being said, I thought that all the above listed characters (barring Burne) who weren't fully wrapped up in the Red Sky seasons, were given a fair ending in the last episode of season 7, which was the last season that revolved around them:

1. Shredder and Krang's last appearance in season 7 has them finally stripped from the technodrome, something which they had for the rest of the show prior.

2. Bebop and Rocksteady are effectively the same as Shredder and Krang, but as the henchmen, prove their loyalty by the end when they rescue their bosses from capture.

3. Irma showed off her badassery in full form in 'Shredder Triumphant', proving herself to be a useful ally to the turtles.

4. Vernon ran away in the end, which is to expected of him because he is a coward.

5. Admittedly, Burne just faded away into nothingness during 'Shredder Triumphant', but he did get a pretty conclusive, albeit bitter change of character in the following episode when he declares that he will do everything in his power to give the turtles a bad name (not to mention, he lost his business too, so I guess that could also be considered his resolution?)
That is why I like the copy and paste job of the last scene of Divide and Conquer pasted at the end of the Turtles To The Second Power. Also, this is why I felt that Burne should have been used by Dregg. It was like the storyarc was forgotten. Also, it would have been a perfect reason for April to walk away from Channel Six and become freelance.
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:01 AM   #30
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True, the plot to make Pulverizer into Mutagen Man was planned out, but after he was mutated it was forgotten about. April's father was cured. It would seem that it would have happened at the same time. Unlike the latter I think of a real-life reason I cannot think of a reason for this one.
Yeah, it's sad we didn't see the conclusion of that. It seemed they were certainly taking Donnie's character towards a plotline or outcome. After all, Splinter had warned Donnie that by making the conscious decision of training the Pulverizer at all he would be responsible for whatever happened to him as a result. Even if he wasn't teaching him anymore that responsibility just doesn't go away.

As you said, Mutagen man was planned out as it was mentioned by the staff that he would be a reoccurring character. I guess I blame the staff-change between season 1 and 2 for why it never played out.


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I found it interesting that the Turtles would leave Cody there without protection and Darius not incarnated due to it being all but said that Darius had his sister and brother-in-law killed to get the Jones fortune for himself. It is perhaps a side effect of cutting off the Fastforward direction when it did since more episodes were planned like Space Usagi and Triceraton Shredder.
There was actually some plotlines from Season 2 of "Fast Forward" that were released by were never completed.
One of the episodes that had Darius Dunn and the Dark Turtles was called "Turtles Turtles Everyware"

Tired of the constant failures of the Dark Turtles he created, Darius Dunn decides it’s time to build a better mousetrap - - or gang of henchmen, if you will. Turning his technological know how to the task, Dunn creates the TechTurtles…and what better way to give them a test run than sending them after the now obsolete Dark Turtles? Reeling from the high tech onslaught of the TechTurtles and desperate to survive, the Dark Turtles have no choice but to turn to their enemies, the Turtles, for help. In the heat of battle, the Ninja Turtles teach the Dark Turtles what honor and sacrifice is truly about. After this battle, things will never be the same.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:44 AM   #31
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Yeah, it's sad we didn't see the conclusion of that. It seemed they were certainly taking Donnie's character towards a plotline or outcome. After all, Splinter had warned Donnie that by making the conscious decision of training the Pulverizer at all he would be responsible for whatever happened to him as a result. Even if he wasn't teaching him anymore that responsibility just doesn't go away.

As you said, Mutagen man was planned out as it was mentioned by the staff that he would be a reoccurring character. I guess I blame the staff-change between season 1 and 2 for why it never played out.




There was actually some plotlines from Season 2 of "Fast Forward" that were released by were never completed.
One of the episodes that had Darius Dunn and the Dark Turtles was called "Turtles Turtles Everyware"

Tired of the constant failures of the Dark Turtles he created, Darius Dunn decides it’s time to build a better mousetrap - - or gang of henchmen, if you will. Turning his technological know how to the task, Dunn creates the TechTurtles…and what better way to give them a test run than sending them after the now obsolete Dark Turtles? Reeling from the high tech onslaught of the TechTurtles and desperate to survive, the Dark Turtles have no choice but to turn to their enemies, the Turtles, for help. In the heat of battle, the Ninja Turtles teach the Dark Turtles what honor and sacrifice is truly about. After this battle, things will never be the same.
In other words this would be when he gets jailed and the Dark Turtles reform and maybe take up residence with Cody? I don't remember that script of the set. Thanks.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:36 AM   #32
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Baxter definitely needed a resolution. The irony is he almost did in his last episode but the TMNT quite out of character stopped that from happening. Obviously Bebop and Rocksteady are the other two.

I don't think Leatherhead got a resolution in the 80's cartoon although I could be wrong.
It wasn't really out of character. Baxter needed the Retromutagen gun to finally return to being human and the Turtles needed it to restore everyone Baxter had turned into insects. The Turtles would've let him become human under better circumstances. The same thing happened later in Doomquest when they had to sacrifice the Vortex Crystal and the fact that their unstable mutations would destroy them. Saving the Earth was more important.

If Baxter had successfully returned to whatever dimension he was headed to, they would never find him in there and everyone would be trapped in their new forms. Another scenario is that Baxter got returned to normal, regained his smarts and zapped the Turtles like Shredder had been about to a minute before.

Leatherhead never got a resolution. He disappeared into the night with the other rogues and was never seen again. At least the Rat King got one more chance.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:41 AM   #33
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There are other characters who did not get any closure in the 2k12 series. Such as Snakeweed or Spider Bytez. We don't know what happened to them ever since.

Also Pigeon Pete. We don't know what happened to him either.
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:07 PM   #34
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Guess it's probably how some stories are meant to end, as open-ended. Major plots and stories end, but the characters always live on to fight another day.

It's shown in the futures of the 1987 and also the 2003 shows though, the turtles helped make the technologically-convenient futures clean and crime-free, all criminals locked up and/or reformed.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:52 PM   #35
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^ That's correct. TMNT's future was unknown at the time since Night of the Rogues was in Season 7; the last to have an hour block. Also why Shredder Triumphant ended the way it did.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:57 AM   #36
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Why anyone expected "closure" in the Fred Wolf cartoon character "arcs" is fvcking beyond me.
Why anyone would make such a nonsense comment is beyond me.

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Because fans took the show more seriously than it was meant to. If you actually think about how characters are treated, there shouldn't be much of a reason to care.
Ten seasons and we're not supposed to care for reoccurring characters? Huh?

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The former caught in limbo after the TMNT act out of character and the henchmutants just wondering around Dimension X is not satisfying for characters that became such a big part of the show and to Laird's chagrin, the franchise.
I agree completely.

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It wasn't really out of character. Baxter needed the Retromutagen gun to finally return to being human and the Turtles needed it to restore everyone Baxter had turned into insects. The Turtles would've let him become human under better circumstances.
My comment is they destroyed the gun and then kicked him into the portal before he could transform back. A bit much.

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With that being said, I thought that all the above listed characters (barring Burne) who weren't fully wrapped up in the Red Sky seasons, were given a fair ending in the last episode of season 7, which was the last season that revolved around them:
I suppose if they wanted to phase out every supporting character from the original era of the show they should of given everybody closure at the end of Season 7 and then started afresh with Season 8 instead of having characters drip over into the season.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:41 AM   #37
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Yeaaaahh but this is 100% a crossover film. For "appearing" I mean as real characters that are part of the series storyline. The movie versions are probably out from the events of the 4Kids adaptation and rmeain only during the plot of the movie.

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Kojima is a humanoid warthog as Gen is a humanoid rhinoceros who briefly donned Rocksteady's clothes.
Mindblow...
I thought that Kojima was just a Usagi Yojimbo character, not a specific character only made up for the reference.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:05 AM   #38
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Regarding the frogs, it was hard to give them closure since Atila and Rasputin never had speaking roles during the CBS run. Mondo Gecko got his closure in his first episode and just appeared in Dirk Savage just because. Or maybe the writers knew what was coming and had to quickly pad things out.
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:13 AM   #39
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Regarding the frogs, it was hard to give them closure since Atila and Rasputin never had speaking roles during the CBS run. Mondo Gecko got his closure in his first episode and just appeared in Dirk Savage just because. Or maybe the writers knew what was coming and had to quickly pad things out.
I think in the case of the Punk Frogs they should of had a final episode where they were being targeted and the TMNT had to help them.
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:34 AM   #40
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They did, though; with Leatherhead in Season 3. Dirk Savage and even their origin episode had that subplot too.
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