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Old 12-19-2019, 01:22 PM   #41
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Old 12-19-2019, 01:41 PM   #42
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Nah, he couldn't dodge that and didn't. More like he leans forward toward it...
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:43 PM   #43
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As for the case, Trump already committed enough crimes to have anyone else arrested. He misused campaign funds. He invited foreign interference in elections. Regardless of how you feel about these, Trump is attached enough to go to trial. The GOP is protecting him. Hence no witnesses and the strict rules on what can be discussed. But his hand picked ambassador and his hand picked former lawyer already presented enough to go to trial.

Innocent until guilty still standing, it isn't unbelievable that he finds himself being impeached. Even before his Presidency, he couldn't go a year without being sued up to his eyeballs.

If you support the man, that's your business and you're free to your beliefs. The cold, hard facts suggest that a deeper investigation is warranted.
Here's my thing:

A lot of that is probably true. BUT. Even if so, it's still just a case of Trump doing what EVERY. SINGLE. ELECTED OFFICIAL. DOES. And the fact that he's being attacked for it because the stuff HE says on Twitter is more "mean" than what The OTHER Guys say on Twitter.

"He lied." So what?

"He misused money." So what?

"He broke the law." So what?

"He doesn't mean one word of his promises, he's only in it for himself." SO. WHAT?!

Richard Nixon was impeached and run out of office for doing what every single elected official does. Bill Clinton was impeached for doing what every single elected official does, right down to using his office as a way to get some ass. Do I like it? HELL NO I don't like it! That man is a violent serial rapist who probably f*cked little girls (Epstein Connection), but people love him because he can play the saxophone and has a charming "Aw Shucks!" Southern-style charm about him. Drives me f*cking nuts. But even if I don't like it, I have no choice but to accept that even IF he raped those women, even IF he's a pederast, even IF he's a liar and a thief, and EVEN IF his wife is all of that or worse... They're NO different from anyone else in that game.

You can NOT be a goddamn f*cking POLITICIAN and a human being at the same time. It simply isn't possible. I really, REALLY wish more people could see through all the smoke and mirrors, all the bullsh*t, and realize that even IF Trump is the monster he's painted as being, there is not ONE f*cking person in the game who's any better, and most are probably worse. Why demonize someone at a time when the economy is booming and unemployment is at record-lows, when more of the "underprivileged" minorities have actual jobs than at any point in our history, all because "He's stupid, mean, dishonest, and says dumb things"? Things are going great for more than half of the people in the country; MOST people don't care about bathrooms or "kids in cages", they care about getting up every day and going to a JOB. They care that their kids have a JOB. That is ALL anyone cares about at the end of the day, all they SHOULD care about, really, and on that end things are moving in a good direction. Most of that probably has nothing to do with Trump, sure, but even as a figurehead he represents stability. I'm friends with a lot of small business owners who nearly lost their shirt under Obama, but now they've doubled their business in less than 4 years under Trump. I have friends who are DOCTORS, who have all the compassion in the world for people but are PRAYING TO GOD Bernie or Warren don't win in 2020, because "People are going to be waiting six months for a specialist, and nobody's going to get their medicine because government insurance companies REFUSE to pay the doctors already, it's going to be complete anarchy if they have their way, and people are going to die."

These reasonable, rational, perfectly-normal people hope Trump stays in office forever, because he's good for business, no matter what shady sh*t he's done. That's called "Being A Realist".

And that's ALL that matters. Business. Not feelings. Certainly not "honesty and transparency". Business. "Do people have more money than they did ten years ago today?" "Yes." "Okay. Then let it ride. Let. It. Ride."

Because I don't know how to break it to those on the Hard Left: There AIN'T no f*cking good guys. Bernie Sanders preaches Free Sh*t and "Tax The Evil Rich" while he buys his sixth giant mansion. Obama talks about the dangers of climate change while he buys a $20 million palace on Martha's Vineyard, seemingly not caring that it's going to be washed away in a few months if his pet rock Greta is to be believed. Nobody stops to think about how it's far more likely that these people just want to stick their hands deeper into your pockets, and make you even more dependent on THEM.

So yeah, it ain't about Trump. I'm under no illusion that he's a Saint. He's NOT. He's a liar and a con artist. Sure. I don't vote, EVER, but I definitely didn't vote for him. Nor will I next year. But that's because I wouldn't vote for ANYONE, for the simple fact that I will never, EVER sign my name to a liar, a thief, or a con artist. And that covers EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN, every single JUDGE, at least 9/10s of the cops and all the f*cking lawyers. You can't be Picky/Choosy with this sh*t; "It's okay if Warren is a liar because she tells me Pretty Lies. It's okay if Bernie is a con artist because he's promising me Free College." No, bullsh*t, STOP IT, people. STOP pretending it's okay to back ONE group of lying thieves over ANOTHER group of lying thieves, just because one of them tells you what you want to hear.

Trump? Liar and a thief. Sure.
Bernie? Liar and a thief.
Warren? Liar and a thief.
Hillary? Liar and a thief.
Obama? Liar and a thief, gave a ton of guns to Mexican drug cartels which were then used to murder women and children. "Oopsie."
Bill? Liar and a thief, and a rapist, and a pederast, and a racist, and a... "BUT HE PLAYS THE SAX-O-MA-PHONE!"

It's a joke. A JOKE. STOP being MARKS, for f*ck's sake.

All of this Impeachment sh*t... ALL OF IT... is because ONE group of cons got out-conned by someone who knows how to play the Con Game BETTER than they do, and they don't like it. It's got NOTHING to do with them being "innocent", or even decent people. They're not. They just don't like being beaten by such an obvious phony. I mean, I get it; you spend 30-40 years mastering the political con game hustle, only to be out-hustled by a f*cking Reality TV star who couldn't hack it selling steaks? I'd be pissed too! But this diaper rash sh*t doesn't help anything.

Sour Grapes, that's all it is. They want us distracted, so we don't notice the shady sh*t that the so-called "Good Guys" are trying to slip under our noses. "Orange Man Bad. Pay no attention to what WE'RE up to; have you seen this guy's Twitter?!" Come on. I'm a f*cking wrestler; Con Games, sleight of hand, misdirection and lies don't work on you once you've achieved Zen Master status at it. "You can't work a Worker."

If anyone TRULY believes that anyone - ANYONE - who makes a living by putting on a suit and giving f*cking speeches every day, and who winds up with $100 million in the bank after a few years on a civil servant's salary, TRULY gives a sh*t about you, or me, or anyone besides themselves... Grow Up. Get Over It. They don't care. You HAVE to sell your soul to even get halfway as far as these people have, just to be invited to The Game. They aren't even the 1%, they're the .0001%, the ones who have all the money AND the power, and they ain't afraid to use it. But they're never gonna use it to help YOU, no matter whether they're Red or Blue. That sh*t's an act.

Blows my f*cking MIND that people can't all see this by now.

BUT HEY... "I'm not telling you anything... that you don't already KNOW."
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:18 PM   #44
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You have any evidence for those claims?

Perfection isnt demanded here. And I hear you on the frustration, but there are bigger things at play.

If you're willing to accept that these guys are crap across the board, there's a solid case to be made. The difference is that they're much more deft at it. They also understand that the nation needs to exist for them to derive power.

Trump is willing to do this out in the open. Someone pointed out that grandstanding is his strength. It's not. It's his weakness. It looks great during a campaign, but he can't turn it off. When it comes time to actually do the job, Trump fails.

No other candidate in recent memory was as bad at the job. And that's not in some "save the world, hippie liberal" sense. That's in any sense. He has no idea how the military functions. He has no idea how diplomacy works. And it shows painfully every time he steps out of one of his rallies.

So who cares? Well, a lot of people do. If you don't care about the way our country functions at all, then you're more than welcome to blow this off. And I can understand if you're that disillusioned with the whole thing. But at some point the behavior gets so bad that something needs to be done.

It's like if you're buddy **** himself at a party, punched you in the face, then started choking your dog. At what point would you ask that guy to leave? Or at least tell him to reel it in?
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:45 PM   #45
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"Evidence"? As in, just like, every single bit of human history? Has there EVER been a political figure in any office, in any country, who wasn't either Full-Blown Evil or just plain shady, and eventually exposed as such? By your own logic, how many Ceasars and Hitlers and Nixons and Trumps can humanity suffer before we collectively realize that no human being who openly seeks power is in any way fit to wield it?

At one point, each and every one of them said, "I want to be a Politician. I want to spend my life controlling people while exempting myself from the rules I set for them to live by." That means they are Bad People, period.

My name ain't Google, anything I accuse people of is a button press away. I had to do the work in reading all this stuff on my own time over the years, and nobody handed it to me, so other people can do the same, if they choose. Or they can choose not to, but all that tells me is that they're afraid of what they might learn about their "heroes".

The fact is, I don't care. Because I don't think humanity is worth saving, I think we already peaked a long time ago, I think we're incapable of saving ourselves, and I think it's better that we resign ourselves to our fate and live out the last few hundred years we probably have left on this Earth in peace and quiet rather than yelling at each other about sh*t we can't actually control. In less than 500 years, some lunatic is gonna set off a nuke, and everything we've built in the last couple hundred thousand years is gonna be nothing but ash. It won't be tomorrow, but it will be Eventually, sooner than anyone thinks. I'm fine with that. Let the Radioactive Squirrels usurp our position the same way we usurped the dinosaurs. Circle Of Life, c'est la vie. I'm not so arrogant to think that anything we've done, or will do, actually means anything. It doesn't matter. We're all just killing time.

So let's just have FUN instead of getting worked up over these con artists in suits who lie to our faces while pocketing our hard-earned cash. "I wanna leave a better world for my kids!" Once your kids get hooked on blow in college their lives are already gonna be f*cked no matter who the President is, so don't worry about it. "But the ice caps are gonna melt!" You'll be dead by then, and so will I. It's meaningless to worry about it, it's beyond anyone's control. To think otherwise implies that we DESERVE to survive indefinitely as a species, and... we don't. We simply DON'T.

We're all gonna die. Might as well Die Laughing.

I do love you though, bro. I'm just the most jaded guy in the room, just calling it like I see it. No other point of view makes sense to me at all. But I can't fake it.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:01 PM   #46
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Then why make a point about this at all? If every single one of them deserve to be removed, then why not just shrug it off the one time the political apparatus actually holds one of its own accountable?

As for evidence, yes. And not all of human history. Just some. If you're going to make the claim, you can't just say something and hold it up as proof. That's why none of these politicoa get locked up. Because they're at least smart enough to hide it.

And that's why Trump is getting thrown under the bus. He's bringing his little league skills against the best in the world. Where they hide things a thousand times over, making it literally impossible to litigate, Trump comes out and brags about it.

If we're going to o be ruled by sociopathic overlords, at least give us cool ones who do James Bond type ****. This is just embarrassing for everyone involved.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:50 PM   #47
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Because people whining incessantly and even taking up arms (figuratively OR literally) against their fellow man over some stuff they can't control is one of my biggest pet peeves. I hate the music of The Grateful Dead more, but not by much.

Again, the Impeachment Show is sour grapes from a bunch of carnies who got out-carnie'd by someone they didn't even ask to sit at the table. He just invited himself in and went home with all the marbles, and they don't like it. AND he's exposing their own hypocrisy along the way, which they hate. Like I said, I'd be pissed too, but they're the ones presenting themselves as the Good Guys fighting nobly and valiantly against this pompadoured super-villain, and asking people to support them in that, when that's not even a little bit of what's happening.

I'm fine with Bad Guys being Bad Guys. I'm fine with Bad Guys who do nothing at all to hide that they're Bad Guys. I'd rather have someone spit in my face than stab me in the back.

I have a real problem with Bad Guys pretending to be Good Guys so people will vote for them and give them lots of money. I have a zero-tolerance policy on that kinda sh*t. People fall for it every day and it gets on my goddamn nerves. Go play air hockey or something, Jesus. Buy a monkey and teach it to do drywall, I'unno. There's a thousand better uses of a person's limited time on Earth than to get all worked up about this kinda stuff. Picking sides and protesting and yelling and screaming and blocking traffic. Fistfights at Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's stuuuuupid. People need to get ooooover it.

Plus, the guy that lives downstairs from me is 24/7 drunk off his ass and screaming at the TV about how he's gonna shoot Trump, THEN every Republican in Washington, THEN everyone with a MAGA hat, etc. etc. etc. Rational people with rational minds! He tells the cops, "I'm gonna shoot Trump!" and they just go "Oh, you!" and tell him to relax. Then he gets to go back to terrorizing the neighborhood. If he'd said that kinda thing about Obama, he'd be in jail for Life Plus Twenty and I wouldn't have to listen to his dumb ass. Society needs to do a better job of enforcing the standards they swear they're fighting so hard for.

People get THAT kinda worked up about stuff that is essentially just Cartoons For Grown-Ups. I HAVE to point out how f*cking stupid and annoying that is. It ain't no way to live. Shaking one's fist in impotent rage? Might as well try and punch out the ocean.

OR, a person could just go play video games, have a beer, and realize that in a hundred years, nobody's gonna care.

I pay attention because Society forces me to pay attention. Therefore, I point out that it's all stupid nonsense because my conscience forces me to do so.

I am not arrogant or near-sighted enough to think that my political opinions are going to change the world. A lot of people do think that. They believe in Good Guys, they think their votes matter, they think arguing with their relatives over turkey and stuffing and having the cops get called over this stuff is gonna "Save The World". They're wrong, and they're suffering because of it, and I'd spare them that pain if they'd let me.

THAT is why I say anything.
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Old 12-20-2019, 08:14 AM   #48
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There is far more at stake here than that.

If you're upset about people turning on each other, that falls into the same category as politicians being dirt bags. This is what we do. I could drop a dozen buzz words that would set off half the board.

If the issue is that people are getting out of hand, we're a little late to the party. If it's focused solely on impeachment, then we still are. This kind of partisanship was mentioned by George Washington. We were warned by Eisenhower that divisive forces were worki g within his own party to rip the country apart along ideological lines.

By the way, this isn't even an issue yet. This is an agreement by the House to investigate Trump. This does not mean he is guilty. It means that his conduct has raised enough suspicion to start looking into it more deeply.

Investigate. This isn't a unilateral removal from office. This isn't execution carried out by militant bolshevik operatives. It's a heavy political admonition because someone is apparently not following the rules.

If people are willing to kill each other over this, then that's a separate problem. I'm not here to kill people who disagree with me. No one else here seems to want to kill me. This is exactly what the system is supposed to foster: civil discussion and peaceful transfer of power.

It's not happy or fun, but it's the best we've got.
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:39 AM   #49
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So basically while the house voted to impeach Trump, he isn't even impeached yet. That doesn't happen until the articles are transmitted to the senate, which they haven't done and seem reluctant to do so.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...-for-democrats

Impeachment is a process, not a vote.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:42 PM   #50
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Impeachment is a process, not a vote.
Pelosi knows this. And she knows that this was a show for the diminished Democratic party to appeal to "feelers" and people who respond more readily to empty context and signaling over information.

"Orange man bad, they are impeaching him" is a strong context for anyone on the spectrum who responds to heuristics. It's the same argument that the office manger who wants to fire someone uses when they say "well I don't think person xyz "would have, if".

It's an attempt at bottom of the barrel voter-aggregation. And it is completely empty of integrity.

It's awful that a section of the country is so far gone and out of integrity that they flow with the charade. But it's great that so many people recognize the truth and are walking away from this process and not in support of it.

Even the leftist representatives can't hide their lack of integrity - Talisha Rashib making a video saying that she's "On [her] way to impeach President Trump" as she smiles, marches down the hall like Brittany Spears in the Baby, One More Time video. Without a shred of thought about a greater good, or where her actions take things. Smiling on video like the unsure girl in High School who got vengeance on a guy who rejected her earlier and never got over it. That's the leftist leadership right there. On camera for anyone not previously intuitive enough to see it.

The conversations with the remaining remnants will only get harder however because as people continue to leave the current zeitgeist of the Democratic party behind we will be left only with the worst of the worst - the hangers on. Left behind in their soggy cave of hate, like a creature from a Tolkien novel.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:43 PM   #51
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So basically while the house voted to impeach Trump, he isn't even impeached yet. That doesn't happen until the articles are transmitted to the senate, which they haven't done and seem reluctant to do so.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...-for-democrats

Impeachment is a process, not a vote.
Hah, funny thing about that word "forever." It does need to actually begin at some point!
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:06 PM   #52
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So basically while the house voted to impeach Trump, he isn't even impeached yet. That doesn't happen until the articles are transmitted to the senate, which they haven't done and seem reluctant to do so.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...-for-democrats

Impeachment is a process, not a vote.
No, he's impeached. It's the decision to investigate. The Senate's job now is to determine if Trump should be removed. They have to discuss the process by which the impeachment will be carried out.

The term itself is pretty confusing. And since this is literally the third time in history that we've seen it happen, it's not really a certain and planned process.

The big thing now is Pelosi and McConnell coming to an agreement over the terms of the trial. If and when that happens we'll proceed with whether or not Trump will be removed from office. That's proba ly not going to happen, though. It's exceedingly difficult to remove a president from office.

But he has been impeached. It's a fancy way of saying he was charged with a crime. Like if someone was arrested for robbing a bank. Just because he hasnt gone to trial doesn't mean he hasn't been formally accused.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:11 PM   #53
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No, he's impeached. It's the decision to investigate. The Senate's job now is to determine if Trump should be removed.
No, not yet. The senate can't do anything right now -- they have to receive the articles from the house, which the house isn't giving over. The house voted "yes" to impeach but they're not completing the process to actually impeach him.

It'd be, like, if I went and bought a bunch of stocking stuffers for my kid but then never actually bothered to put them in any stockings.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:18 PM   #54
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It'd be, like, if I went and bought a bunch of stocking stuffers for my kid but then never actually bothered to put them in any stockings.
Dare I ask if that's something you actually have done?
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:50 PM   #55
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The left wants a victory so bad that they want to claim the "he's impeached" win at all costs. It sounds so serious and victorious!

The truth at this stage of the game is that being "impeached" is more akin to having neighbors that don't like you so their power play is submit a formal complaint that your slightly discolored siding violates the association rules of house color in the community. They basically drew their line in the sand so that the association now has to review you. It's nonsense, but it's the kind of technical nonsense that could result in problems.

That's what haters do. Their hate results in being "out to get you". They don't really give a crap about your siding color. They just hate and hate until they can latch onto the first thing to damage a person.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:09 PM   #56
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This is turning into Alice in Wonderland almost every day lol. But we replace off with there head with impeach, and punishment first and trial later.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:13 PM   #57
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Dare I ask if that's something you actually have done?
No, but I've been on the receiving (or lack of receiving) end of it once, I seem to remember.

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The left wants a victory so bad that they want to claim the "he's impeached" win at all costs. It sounds so serious and victorious!

The truth at this stage of the game is that being "impeached" is more akin to having neighbors that don't like you so their power play is submit a formal complaint that your slightly discolored siding violates the association rules of house color in the community. They basically drew their line in the sand so that the association now has to review you. It's nonsense, but it's the kind of technical nonsense that could result in problems.

That's what haters do. Their hate results in being "out to get you". They don't really give a crap about your siding color. They just hate and hate until they can latch onto the first thing to damage a person.
Pretty spot-on.
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Old 12-23-2019, 11:47 AM   #58
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No, it isn't. It's pretty far off the mark. Trump continuously breaks the law. His own associates have attested to this and turned over evidence supporting it. Mueller stated that, we're Trump not the president, there'd be enough to indict.

What blows my mind though? People are so deadset on defending the guy. If he goes, nothing changes. Things would even get better for the GOP. They still stay in power albeit with a slight blemish. Pence gets the office, and he's a much more effective and appealing candidate to the GOP base. We certainly wouldn't be laughing ourselves silly over childish outbursts about windmill cancer or hamberder smorgasbords. Or rolling our eyes every time he "falls in love" with a dictator of a hostile foreign power. Or every time the world laughs at him.

I'd imagine Pence' s administration would at least have the work ethic to send representatives to our embassies and consulates around the world. He'd be much more deft at maneuvering through Congress and more formidable against Pelosi and Schumer,which isn't difficult but something Trump can't seem to handle.

We're deciding the leader of the free world here. Let's get someone a little better than this bozo. We can all scream and whine about "all politicians are the same", but this one is an absolute **** show. Get some damn standards and some self respect.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:15 PM   #59
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Yeah, it seems to me that largely the people rallying behind the -- as yet, incomplete -- impeachment proceedings acknowledge (deep down) that the "evidence" is not really much ado about anything... but at the same time they have this sense of, "But I KNOW he's done other illegal things, probably, and just really needs to go because he's awful so if this Ukraine business can help remove him then I'm backing that horse 200%!" Same as the "Trump is going to jail in 2 months for tax stuff!" thing, same as the "It's Mueller Time!" thing.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:21 PM   #60
FredWolfLeonardo
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Trump will persevere through all this, and go onto win 2020.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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