129 preview and discussion

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I felt the same way you did when I first read those comics some years ago, but...meh. I've been very forgiving especially given that was one of the few things I didn't like in the TMNT Adventures run. I still really like Ninjara, mostly because I tend to not hold bad writing against characters. If I did, I'd hate most DC and Marvel heroes by now...

Yeah. I mean, I still like her as a character and I wish the book had stayed around long enough to resolve that whole situation better. I just still bristle whenever I read that arc because it just didn't sit right and still doesn't.

In my fic universe, I had her just flat-out cheat on him so there's less ambiguity to the whole thing, and they both accept that mutually it wasn't working out for multiple reasons and that such an incident was probably inevitable. She still comes off as a bit of a strumpet but in my head it made the entire break-up seem more justified from both sides.

It probably makes more sense if one reads it. Nyah nyah, nobody who's not on The List is ever gonna.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I was never a huge fan of Ninjara, but I didn't exactly hate her. She was just an overall boring character. She starts as a villain, abruptly switches to being a good guy and then Raph's girlfriend, and then proceeds to just kinda hang around for the next 50 issues or so. I never felt like she added all that much to the dynamic and they never did anything very interesting with her. And then, of course, there's the aforementioned break up story, one of the few times where she gets focus, and it has her acting completely out of character out of nowhere. Not to mention that Mokoshan is kind of a creep who immediately starts hitting on an underage girl immediately after his wife dies. That story was kind of a mess.

[Leo656]

I think her characterization suffered from the writers feeling "forced" to include her in the first place.

I mean, to my knowledge they never came out and publicly admitted that's where she came from or why she was included. But I mean, they were printing letters from parents and girls whining about how they needed to "get a girl mutant in there", and then shortly afterwards they introduce Ninjara and make her a prominent character. I don't believe in coincidence; on some level, I believe she was created to alleviate some of that pressure.

The problem being, I'm not sure if at any point they put a whole ton of thought into her personality, backstory, or purpose. Her origins are rather vague and glossed over, and as you pointed out, her face turn after originally showing up as a villain seemed a bit too quick and easy. It was easy to settle her into the "girlfriend" role, and that was a comfortable spot to keep her in, keeping her around and active without overshadowing the main cast, but yeah, as her own fully-formed character she was never really as fleshed out as she could have been.

I feel like she was created in a rush to try and deflect criticisms about the book/franchise being too male-dominated, and then once she was established they had to use her, but that they never really got around to figuring her out.

The Furrlough story could have done some of that heavy lifting, but unfortunately that got cut short and amounted to just a whole lot more What Could Have Been.

I do like her, but I admit that probably has a lot to do with potential rather than actual presentation.

[Zog The Magnificent]

You gotta love that a comic from 25 years ago is generating a more interesting and thoghtful conversation than the current comic has been able to in the last two and half years.

[Leo656]

Ninjara was hotter than Jennika, is why.

In all seriousness, it probably has a lot to do with nostalgia, "simpler times", us being more jaded now, etc. etc. I mean, I'm forever more apt to re-read the old stuff versus the new stuff but on some level it's inarguably because it's what I grew up with and thus have more connection with. Nothing a person reads or experiences at 35+ is ever going to affect them the same way as something they read when they were 10, that's just how things work and how people are wired.

...I mean, I do also think that book was just plain written better, too. But I admit there are other variables.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Leo656

They were presented as straight. Not "progressive" enough in these modern times. It's not enough to have a prominent female character. It means nothing unless she licks beaver. Straight women only count as 5/8s Female anymore.

There's rules to these things, man. Try and keep up.

When did you become such a whiny piss-baby?

[Leo656]

I've never changed, Sailor Scout. If at one point you found me amusing and now you don't, that's entirely on you. If anything, I've mellowed with age. I almost never joke about murdering hookers and hiding them in my crawlspace anymore, for example; that used to be a staple of the whole bit. I phased it out when fewer people were willing to play along; it's not funny if the person making the joke is the only one laughing, after all. Plus I've got better material to work with nowadays.

Anyways. I could just as well ask you when you became such a White Knight fanboy loyalist who buys anything with a TMNT sticker on it and openly hates his own penis. But I haven't, because I am a nice guy.

And even noted Leftist Bill Maher just this week pointed out how even gay men aren't "hip" enough to be leading the Gay Pride Parade this year, because "just being gay" isn't trendy enough anymore. Likewise, "just being a woman" isn't enough to check off the "Representation Box" anymore. A straight white woman may as well be another dude; they have to be non-white and/or LGBTQ+ or else they don't count as "representation". That's how it works. I don't make the rules, so don't @ me for reporting what anyone with two eyes and a working brain can see. April doesn't count as "female representation" because April is a Straight White Female Character and that's "too boring" for the pink hairs to rally behind.

I don't make the rules, Nancy. Observe & Report with a wink and a nudge, that's what I do. Don't like it? Make like the BayTurtles apologists did and create a private group so you can all congregate in your safe space and titter about what an asshole I am. I lived through that Then, I assure you it won't bother me Now.

Also? Campbell's not gonna sleep with you for White Knighting, in case you had any doubts about that. So you needn't be quite so militant in defense of their work. It's rather off-putting if I'm being completely honest, but I'm also pretty sure you aren't even their type.

Anything else you wanna get off your chest while we're here? I'd love an excuse to stop being polite but I don't think you've quite earned the heavy artillery yet, and I do still remember a time when we got along. But I mean, it can indeed get all kinds'a crazy up in here if you want. Why you and your one-sentence posts full of monosyllabic vocabulary would WANT that to happen, I have no idea. But I've noticed you've had a bug up your ass about me for quite some time - ever since I came out saying I don't like Campbell's work, oddly enough - and this is at least the third time you've "come at me" for it. Seems rather dumb to me to get so personal about a difference of opinion over a bad writer's bad stories, but if that's how you wanna play, then fine, we can play.

Engage at your own peril, my son.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ninjara was hotter than Jennika, is why.

In all seriousness, it probably has a lot to do with nostalgia, "simpler times", us being more jaded now, etc. etc.

Jennika wishes she was a great character like Ninjara.

And I will outright say that the reason TMNT Adventures generates more conversation than IDW is because it's better. Period. Flaws and all, it was made from more of a place of passion for the franchise than IDW, or at the very least, the rules they followed helped give off that illusion. I've been re-reading old issues of Justice League International recently, and I was in awe of how much more fun they are than the gutter trash DC puts out nowadays. It's not just nostalgia, they're legitimately more entertaining and fun because they didn't rely on shock value (aka "who's dying horrifically this week") and virtue signaling (aka "let's make (x) gay this week!"). The industry's mind is boggled as to why comics are failing, hell, even some fans are too. It's super obvious to me, the reason, that is.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Jennika wishes she had a great rack like Ninjara.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.n...9A&oe=62925FDD

Okay, you got me, Leo. You little scamp.

[Leo656]

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

https://c.tenor.com/OtMg7erxD-4AAAAC/cmpunk-punk.gif

CM PUNK Frog!

[ChosenOne]

Ninjara showed more personality and charisma in her first appearance alone than Jennika in her entire existence so far.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

CM PUNK Frog!

Admittedly very clever, even I didn't think of that one.

Have a cookie of your choice, you've earned it.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Ninjara showed more personality and charisma in her first appearance alone than Jennika in her entire existence so far.

True dat.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Admittedly very clever, even I didn't think of that one.

Have a cookie of your choice, you've earned it.

Is this cookie going to be a digital tracer or is it chocolate chip and gooey?


Ninjara I felt was too present and a hanger on for much of her run. The Future Shark Trilogy and The Saga of Sarneth she was just there. Despite that she did have a personality show at times. Jennika went out with Casey Jones once which somewhow means a 'relationship' and Jennika embodies the sudden exploration of the writer. Seeing her in the image homaging the first film, she just seems so out of place.

I am in again for The Armaggedon Game mini-series and two part prelude. Getting this, Last Ronin, and Forever War in the same year makes up in a way for what is being thrust upon us.

[Leo656]

I SAID it was your choice of cookie.

Now it's a Trefoil because I said so.

[Cloudrunner]

lol I mean technically speaking Alopex is the Ninjara replacement, not Jennika. And whether or not she's hotter depends on whether or not your a tits man or an ass/thigh man (that's me, baby! Alopex 100%). Though it seems both had their issues in writing. I feel like Alopex had a better introduction and conversion to the good side than Ninjara, but Ninjara had a better post-good guy stint than Alopex, who feels like she progressively lost all the cool bits from her character as time went on.

The only thing Jennika replaced was all of Alopex's potential plot points.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Cloudrunner

lol I mean technically speaking Alopex is the Ninjara replacement, not Jennika. And whether or not she's hotter depends on whether or not your a tits man or an ass/thigh man (that's me, baby! Alopex 100%). Though it seems both had their issues in writing. I feel like Alopex had a better introduction and conversion to the good side than Ninjara, but Ninjara had a better post-good guy stint than Alopex, who feels like she progressively lost all the cool bits from her character as time went on.

The only thing Jennika replaced was all of Alopex's potential plot points.

But Jennika hijacked Alopex's character and role in every way, right down to the similar assassin background and redemption story, and Alopex is pretty much an expy of Ninjara, so in a way Jennika can be directly (and unfavorably) compared to Ninjara.

[Cloudrunner]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

But Jennika hijacked Alopex's character and role in every way, right down to the similar assassin background and redemption story, and Alopex is pretty much an expy of Ninjara, so in a way Jennika can be directly (and unfavorably) compared to Ninjara.

Fair enough, Jennika is a third tier ripoff. At least Alopex will always have that time she effortlessly whooped her ass. Though I'm sure modern day Alopex would lose to her, since they pretty much removed every bit of fighting edge from her.