Could Peter's bitterness toward Fred Wolf be about more than just content?

[Jester]

If not hate he at the very least felt it was a poor interpretation of the characters. Tons of his 4Kids Production blogs speak of the FW series, and not in glowing terms, either.

He may not have hated it, but he sure as shell didn't love it either.

[ToTheNines]

Great interview. Very sad though.

The fact that it started out as just two friends putting everything they had into a quirky black and white comic book and less than 10 years later they were too busy to even sit down and go back to that is depressing.

I'd love for Peter to be interviewed like this. While I can see where all the stress came from, one has to wonder what kept him on board after Kevin left and what kind of crazy stories he had from the 4kids/Volume 4 era.

[ToTheNines]

Also, I can't believe how fu*king insane that legal stuff was! Fred Wolf sues them for money because they made TMNT popular by "putting them in the sewer" and "giving April a jumpsuit"... and then some sh*thead from Howdy Doody sues them for something Fred Wolf can actually be credited for?

Then the homeless guy and his outerspace Presidents... you gotta laugh at that one.

[Samhain]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Also, I can't believe how fu*king insane that legal stuff was! Fred Wolf sues them for money because they made TMNT popular by "putting them in the sewer" and "giving April a jumpsuit"... and then some sh*thead from Howdy Doody sues them for something Fred Wolf can actually be credited for?

Then the homeless guy and his outerspace Presidents... you gotta laugh at that one.

Yeah, it certainly changes the way I view Peter as a person. All that crap would certainly take it's toll on a person. I think all Peter wanted to do was make his comic. Which I can respect.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Samhain

Yeah, it certainly changes the way I view Peter as a person. All that crap would certainly take it's toll on a person. I think all Peter wanted to do was make his comic. Which I can respect.

I certainly agree, but it's puzzling to think what was so bad in 2008-09 that made him sell the property compared to the craziness going on the late 80's into the 90's (which only drove Kevin away).

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. What a stunning interview. It really clears up a lot of things and why Pete felt the way he did. I don't think he likes the FW series at all, and this may be why. It certainly makes sense when you read the interview.

[Samhain]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I certainly agree, but it's puzzling to think what was so bad in 2008-09 that made him sell the property compared to the craziness going on the late 80's into the 90's (which only drove Kevin away).

I think that it just got to be a bit numbing for him. After all these years,after all the craziness. He was just burnt out from all the crap. All he wanted really was to be an accomplished illustrator, and figures when things settle down for him his heart just wasn't in it anymore.

I do agree maybe he should have left around the time Kevin left. It seems that all these years away from the turtles did Kevin well. Though, Kevin has a different relationship with the turtles. I think Pete takes things a lot more personal than Kevin does and I feel that the turtles were his ''babies''. I'm not sure if that has to do with Peter being older than Kevin or what. Ultimately, I think Peter Laird wanted to do what Stan Sakai has been doing all these years.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Samhain

Ultimately, I think Peter Laird wanted to do what Stan Sakai has been doing all these years.

On that note, I've come to wonder if being close friends with Laird and knowing about all the horror and furstration trying to mass market the TUrtles was, if THAT'S been a factor in Sakai never actively marketing Usagi Yojimbo outside of minimal merchandise and guest appearances in the TMNT's cartoons and toylines.

I imagine if I saw my best friend getting sued 50 times a week and having his entire life consumed by a franchise he's been losing control over by degrees, that I'd certainly hesitate to try and do what he was doing.


To look at the other side of the coin, we also have to remember that despite the heavy burdens that Eastman and Laird got swept up in, that it was all ultimately their decision to let things get as big as they did. They could have chosen not to market in countries like Russia or whatever Middle Eastern nation that "Shady" guy made trouble for them in, but they wanted the money and the saturation and invited these new troubles upon themselves. I sympathize with the predicament they got trapped in, but I can't ignore that it was a predicament they created for themselves.

Still, to counter my own point, I wonder how much of it was a "Pandora's Box" sort of situation. Once the fad became an ever increasing merchandising phenomenon that they simply lost control of how far and how fast it spread and with everyone and their mother sueing them, they had no choice but to let it grow just to make more money to fight those legal battles.

Clearly, this whole thing was more complicated than any of us ever imagined. In a way, I can understand Laird's "my way or the highway" attitude when he did Volume 4 a lot better. 20 years of dealing with everybody telling him what to do, this was his chance to take back the original incarnation of the Turtles and do things his way and not even the fans were going to interfere with it.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

On that note, I've come to wonder if being close friends with Laird and knowing about all the horror and furstration trying to mass market the TUrtles was, if THAT'S been a factor in Sakai never actively marketing Usagi Yojimbo outside of minimal merchandise and guest appearances in the TMNT's cartoons and toylines.

I imagine if I saw my best friend getting sued 50 times a week and having his entire life consumed by a franchise he's been losing control over by degrees, that I'd certainly hesitate to try and do what he was doing.

Makes you wonder if the failure of the Space Usagi series was very much a dodged bullet for Stan.

EDIT: Heck, it was even produced by Fred Wolf....yikes.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Also, I can't believe how fu*king insane that legal stuff was! Fred Wolf sues them for money because they made TMNT popular by "putting them in the sewer" and "giving April a jumpsuit"... and then some sh*thead from Howdy Doody sues them for something Fred Wolf can actually be credited for?

Then the homeless guy and his outerspace Presidents... you gotta laugh at that one.

At the risk of pissing a lot of people off here, the laws regarding sueing someone are ridiculous in the US. You can literally charge anyone for anything, anyone remember that Spin City episode where Paul gets sued for getting shot in the head? As I understand you could actually do that over there. It's insane.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Hermano Dyvas

At the risk of pissing a lot of people off here, the laws regarding sueing someone are ridiculous in the US. You can literally charge anyone for anything, anyone remember that Spin City episode where Paul gets sued for getting shot in the head? As I understand you could actually do that over there. It's insane.

That's the unfortunate truth. You CAN sue anybody for anything in the United States. Though the case can be thrown out by a judge early on if it is deemed transparently frivilous or ridiculous, it still has to go through a certain amount of due process and beurocracy which still costs quite a bit of money. So someone can sue you for anything they want no matter how insane and you still have to spend your own money defending yourself with legal representation.

You can, of course, counter sue and try and reclaim your losses, but that also costs money and there's no guarantee you'll win and get what you spent back, so you could wind up even deeper in the hole.

It's not a pleasant system.

I wish the US could adopt Britain's "loser pays" system; the loser of any given lawsuit is financially responsible for ALL legal fees, including themselves and the winner. It helps to discourage a LOT of frivilous and ridiculous suits from ever being filed, though on the downside, it also discourages many sincere suits from being filed againt large corporate entities as plaintiffs fear they could get stiffed with a bankruptingly huge legal bill if they lose their suit.

Still, it's a more ideal system than the insanity we have here in the US.

[Mayhem]

Yeah... although there has been a rise of "no win, no fee" attorneys here in the last ten years, which to a degree allow less well off people a chance of being able to raise a case. Of course the case has to be seen to have a chance of winning in the first place, otherwise it wouldn't be taken on...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Reading TMNT comics (Archie and UK Hero Turtles) and watching the 1987 cartoon (just read the old cartoon closing credits), I always knew that Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird was the name of those who created TMNT. I always knew it was a comic book first back in 1984, then a cartoon in 1987 (and of course, I thought Archie was the original).

[Leo656]

I don't think anything was "so bad" in 2008 that Pete had to sell, I think it was Nick came along and hit the magic number. The Eastman interview was what, 1998? In it he says he and Laird had already long ago decided to just sell the whole thing off if the right offer came along. Clearly, nobody made the right offer until Nick did, simple as that.

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by Samhain

I think that it just got to be a bit numbing for him. After all these years,after all the craziness. He was just burnt out from all the crap. All he wanted really was to be an accomplished illustrator, and figures when things settle down for him his heart just wasn't in it anymore.

I do agree maybe he should have left around the time Kevin left. It seems that all these years away from the turtles did Kevin well. Though, Kevin has a different relationship with the turtles. I think Pete takes things a lot more personal than Kevin does and I feel that the turtles were his ''babies''. I'm not sure if that has to do with Peter being older than Kevin or what. Ultimately, I think Peter Laird wanted to do what Stan Sakai has been doing all these years.

If he had, I'm not sure that would have been good for us as fans. Sure, Peter would have gotten some air, so to speak, and the '87 series probably would have gone down the same way. We probably would have seen a revival around the same time as the 2003 series, but I highly doubt we would have gotten anything near as well thought out and properly produced as that cartoon.

[Jephael]

It really is sad what corporate greed does to people. I have a cool idea for a TV series that I'd like to produce someday but the more I hear of these legal issues people keep having I'm very hesitant to share my ideas with the world.

[plastroncafe]

The US Legal system isn't justice, it's poker. Many times things don't even reach a judge because one side may have more money than the other...and they'll drag it out until the other side goes bust.

Trying to adopt a "loser pays" scenario doesn't change that. If Nick or "The Mouse" has more money to toss at lawyers then they're going to win. So then you've got the little guy having to come up with the money to pay the big guy for his big guy lawyers. That alone would keep people from filing suit in the first place.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Great interview. Very sad though.

The fact that it started out as just two friends putting everything they had into a quirky black and white comic book and less than 10 years later they were too busy to even sit down and go back to that is depressing.

Or that in the end it drove two good friends apart.

For all the great the Turtles provided millions of us these last couple decades, the inner machinations sure do provide a somber look into the realities of "making it big".

[Konchadunga]

As a great political thinker (rumored to have been Bismark, though this is suspect) once said, Politics are like sausage. Tastes great, but you don't want to see it made. OK; so this is business, but how much difference is there these days?

[Fugitoid Jones]

Although this interview has helped me to sympathize with Peter a little bit more and respect his opinions on things, it doesn't change the fact that there are still things about him that kinda irks me sometimes and come across as rude to me. His backhanded compliments on the fan-made remix of issue 1, for instance, really kinda bothered me. "This was good, but I would have rather it been like this..." style of remarks from his review of the fan-made tribute was like if a child showed a parent a drawing they had made, and the parent was like "That's great kid, too bad it ain't perfect."