Study shows most Cis People Won't Date Trans People.

[Redeemer]

Op I would take that article with a grain of salt. I did not see a link to the actual study which makes me question the internal validity of the study and 95 people is a very, very small sample size to pull from.

[plastroncafe]

There's a link in the text, but the journal is behind a paywall.
If you want to read it I can get your a .pdf.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I kind of assumed we had to be talking post-op, because yeah... pre-op is certainly going to be an issue with the majority.

Even post-op. I think most dudes would like to f*** literally an inverted penis even less than a hairy butthole.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Even post-op. I think most dudes would like to f*** literally an inverted penis even less than a hairy butthole.

Are you this disgusting when you talk to Sophie Campbell, or are you just gunning to close this thread?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

or are you just gunning to close this thread?

This thread was doomed to the fiery pits of hell before you even thought of it.

[Cure]

I am a cis man who will date only cis women. Sue me.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

Are you this disgusting when you talk to Sophie Campbell, or are you just gunning to close this thread?

What? I am just saying what most dudes would (or wouldn't) do. This is a fact supported by data. Will this change in 5, 10, 20 years? Maybe. Probably. There are many dudes right now more than willing and eager to have sex with pre-op and post-op transsexuals as they would with genetic women and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor do I think in any way their man card should be revoked if they do... I'm just pointing out that this is a comparatively and statistically very small number, as well as the brutally honest reasons as to why this is right now.

And then there's the whole having kids thing. While genetic women that can't have kids or women who think they can have kids, marry, and it turns out they can't is very much a real thing, and sad for all parties... beyond "sowing your oats" days for dudes (i.e., let's have a lot of sex without commitment) or dudes who (probably very wisely) have determined kids or more kids aren't for them... this is a huge deal. It's a completely understandable deal breaker. With a transexual woman... you know from the gate that is impossible. We can talk about "Well, what about adoption, you insensitive assclown??" and that's probably a viable alternative for a small percentage of dudes... but most just want to have their own kids. And I don't think that's strange or in any way weird, certainly not a thing that should be shunned. Conversely, I think it is weird that there is a movement to make that seem weird. Beyond the societal level, even on a genetic, our ingrained purpose to exist is to procreate. It's there. It's always going to be there.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

...

Thanks for finally taking the topic seriously. That's all I wanted.

I think most of the arguments really come down to feeling anything beyond hetero relationships are "morally wrong". I also think, this generation is heavily invested in changing that perception. Yeah, in a few years, I can see people being far more open.

I know there's a lot of defense from folks who have the same point of view as Sumac, or Fredwolfleonardo; they have moral issues with the idea that they can't unlearn. I get that, but i think it's something that can be unlearned.

Not to say that people should change their personal preferences, only that, this knee jerk reaction to the topic is clearly defensive and fear based. It shouldn't be.

There's too much unhappiness in the world already.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

Thanks for finally taking the topic seriously. That's all I wanted.

I think most of the arguments really come down to feeling anything beyond hetero relationships are "morally wrong". I also think, this generation is heavily invested in changing that perception. Yeah, in a few years, I can see people being far more open.

I know there's a lot of defense from folks who have the same point of view as Sumac, or Fredwolfleonardo; they have moral issues with the idea that they can't unlearn. I get that, but i think it's something that can be unlearned.

Not to say that people should change their personal preferences, only that, this knee jerk reaction to the topic is clearly defensive and fear based. It shouldn't be.

There's too much unhappiness in the world already.

I can appreciate that. Your initial post seemed fueled with vitriol... even outrage. You began with "what does your born gender have to do with anything" and my points were... "a lot." For a variety of reasons, almost all of them completely understandable.

Everything I've ever stood for is people can and should do whatever they want as long as it isn't hurting anybody else. A hundredfold to the contrary if it's hurting a child. Beyond that? Hey, have fun. Not going to judge or belittle beyond disagreements on facts (the recent deal about "my truth" vs. your truth vs.... the actual truth) or when movements make dudes like me seem the bad guy for understanding simple truths in the day to day.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

I think most of the arguments really come down to feeling anything beyond hetero relationships are "morally wrong". I also think, this generation is heavily invested in changing that perception. Yeah, in a few years, I can see people being far more open.

I don't see any relationships as morally wrong. I think that most people don't care about morality, but more about practicality and healthiness of the relationships.

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

I know there's a lot of defense from folks who have the same point of view as Sumac, or Fredwolfleonardo; they have moral issues with the idea that they can't unlearn. I get that, but i think it's something that can be unlearned.

I won't unlearn that, because, my issues with this topic has nothing to do with morality.
If you carefully read my posts, than you could figure it out.

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

Not to say that people should change their personal preferences, only that, this knee jerk reaction to the topic is clearly defensive and fear based. It shouldn't be.

There's too much unhappiness in the world already.

Yes, it's defensive, because, it's coercion for sex, no, it has nothing to do with fear, because, there is nothing to fear.

And you bring even more unhappiness by denying people their sexual preferences. Good work!!

[plastroncafe]

If there's one thing the work of Kinsey has taught us, it's that most people are dishonest when answering survey questions regarding their sexual habits. the only way he got people to open up about it was to have a very rigorous anonymizing technique for Gathering data.

It's how culturally and religiously conservative States like Utah can consume more pornography than any other state in the Union.

There are many self-identified cis heterosexual men out there who seek the company of trans woman sex workers, regardless of whether or not those women have sought out gender confirmation bottom surgery.

It takes all kinds to make a world.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

Are you this disgusting when you talk to Sophie Campbell, or are you just gunning to close this thread?

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

This thread was doomed to the fiery pits of hell before you even thought of it.

Oh, I’ve gotten reports all right, but thus far the discussion has remained mostly civil, in spite of some “inciting” posts. I like this topic, it’s doing what a controversial topic *should* do: allow everyone to express and explain their viewpoint, regardless of how polarizing some views are.

That was the whole point of the Volcanic Asteroid, yet we all saw what happened there.

If it gets personal or derails, then it’s off to the Disintegrator.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by Venom

Oh, I’ve gotten reports all right, but thus far the discussion has remained mostly covil, in spite of some “inciting” posts. I like this topic, it’s doing ehat a controversial topic *should* do: allow everyone express and explain their viewpoint, regardless of how polarizing some views are.

That was the whole point of the Volcanic Asteroid, yet we all saw what happened there.

If it gets personal or derails, then it’s off to the Disintegrator.

Thanks for giving it a chance. I think some discussions can get heated - but maybe that's how you get to a mutual respect and understanding.

I was irritated by the comment that Trans means mental illness, it's an ignorant thing to say - and I can't respect that opinion, but I won't pursue an argument, as it seems a bit bait-ish.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

There are many self-identified cis heterosexual men out there who seek the company of trans woman sex workers, regardless of whether or not those women have sought out gender confirmation bottom surgery.

If someone needs a "bottom confirmation surgery to be a "woman"", than it is not a woman.
Also, I hardly can imagine men en masse seeking company of trans women, when they can just date normal women.

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

I was irritated by the comment that Trans means mental illness, it's an ignorant thing to say - and I can't respect that opinion, but I won't pursue an argument, as it seems a bit bait-ish.

"I am feeling like a woman", "I am feeling like a Napoleon", "I am feeling like a president of the universe".

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

There's a link in the text, but the journal is behind a paywall.
If you want to read it I can get your a .pdf.

Yeah sure, I am wondering if the article tried to slant the results a certain way. I just want to look at the pretty numbers

[Leonardo_thebest]

It would be awesome if you could send me .pdf as well Plastron.
Thank you.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Yeah sure, I am wondering if the article tried to slant the results a certain way. I just want to look at the pretty numbers

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

It would be awesome if you could send me .pdf as well Plastron.
Thank you.

Sure thing!
Keep your eyes peeled on your email inboxes, and let me know if that didn't work.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'd like a look at that, too, if it's not too much trouble. I do fully understand Andrew's point here, and agree with it for the most part. I also would like to say that his "if it doesn't hurt anyone, do what you want" attitude is to be applauded, as it is very much what I believe as a Wiccan as well. In fact it's the prime tenet.

That said, I think that the ingrained desire to gravitate toward the genetic opposite gender IS a huge part of the reason for those stats, but at the same time, social norms are changing, so those numbers might change in a decade or two once the stigma of being trans begins to disappear, much like the stigma of being gay or bi has been doing. Nature is NOT black and white, as some might naievely believe, and there are literally hundreds of permutations of what is "normal" within any given species. And there is a thing called evolution which tends to alter those species norms over time. It's why certain moths changed colors over time to adapt to changes in the environment brought about by humans, even within the last two centuries.

As hard as it is for some to grasp, being genetically one or the other is NOT the only option. It is simply the most common denomiinator in the equation.

[snake]

Most "trans people" really don't look convincing enough to make a straight person want to date them.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Sumac

If someone needs a "bottom confirmation surgery to be a "woman"", then it is not a woman.

What's interesting to me lately is that lot of articles and stuff I'm seeing coming out, "sexual reassignment surgery"/"SRS" has almost entirely been removed from popular vernacular anywhere on the internet. It's just not said anymore. It's suddenly now, "Bottom Confirmation Surgery." For motivations that seem pretty obvious.

Liberals are doing their "we need to control the language" thing. Divorced from science.