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Old 01-15-2020, 02:22 PM   #121
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
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voltron seems to slowly be coming down with TDS and SJW tendencies, just like Machias seemed to be. Or at least that's how it reads to alot. and that Barkworm guy just pops in once every 8 months, for a few weeks, rules with an iron fist, and vanishes thinking he's still a part of the community when hardly anyone remembers him.
Damn, I'd already forgotten about Machias. Did she just pull up stakes and move on?
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:54 PM   #122
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Wait... is that your day job? Indoctrinating kids at schools? And you're saying you fail kids who don't agree with you?

Maybe you're being sarcastic.



I've had several conversations with people IRL that essentially go like this:

"F*** Donald Trump, amiright?"

"But why?"

"Awww, don't tell me you like Donald Trump?"

"I don't dislike him."

"But how can you?!"

"Why do you hate him?"

"Well, BECAUSE! Think about it!"

"OK. Thought about it. Still don't dislike him."

"B-b-but... (this is usually the first go to) he's a RACIST!"

"How is he a racist?"

"Um... he hates Mexicans!"

"No he doesn't. He just fixed the 'catch and release' problem. No release now, because they usually never go to their court date. And 'illegal immigrant' isn't a race."

"But c'mon, it's not like he's talking about Canadians or something... it's still MOSTLY Mexicans we're talking about! It's clearly racist!"

"No it's not. You saying that over and over again doesn't make it true."

"What about the KKK? They endorsed him!"

"He has no control over that."

"Yeah, but who is endorsing you reflects on YOU!"

"I don't think it does."

And so on, and so on. Cyclical conversations like that that ends in the hypothetical.

Conversation B would be like, "Because he's a Russian puppet! A TRAITOR!" that pretends like the Mueller Report never happened and that he hasn't already been cleared of that stuff. It's still all the rage by many. "Putin probably has pictures of him doing things to small children in Russia as leverage!" and other such conspiracy theories, still being circulated.
This is why people call them NPCs now because it's all 1 note. Like they don't have any other thought patterns other than what the news gives them like patches. I don't like Trump, I don't dislike him, I don't like the media nor any of the government and I haven't for the longest time. I can't even say any of this without sparking some kind of controversy so the best way to go about it is saying I'm a Libertarian even though I'm in the middle of it all. Liberal for animal ethical treatment (not PETA), equal rights, conservative, and Libertarian as well as even going a bit into the anarchy side of things. What's more boggling is when I speak with Aussies and the only politics I hear from them are American. Not like Trump effects anyone over there anyway. Now of course we will hear about the fires out there like how California can't seem to go a single month without some sort of fire.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:22 PM   #123
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Sometimes I don't understand there Trump is impeach FOREVER saying. If they find Trump not guilty(and they will), Its over until they impeach him again. Trump is still going to push his politics even if he is Impeach forever, so I don't see how the Dems would call this a victory. But what ever I guess.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:51 PM   #124
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Because impeachment doesn't mean guilty or certain to be ejected. It means that a president was formally accused by the House. It's a stain on the administration, since Congress found reason to investigate. To compound that, the POTUS, of all people, is supposed to set an example for the rest of the nation in terms of decorum and behavior. Being impeached suggests some failing of character.

To us, an accusation is just that. An accusation can go away. It can die. Sometimes it can follow us, but there's a solid chance we outlive it.

To politicians, it's a bigger deal. They operate in a different arena with different rules than we're used to. Politicians don't act alone. They're a part of a political party and hence, represent a "brand". When they're accused, the whole party is. When Clinton was impeached, the Democrats suffered as a whole. Clinton will be forever remembered as an impeached president. So, too will Nixon and Johnson. That's a part of their legacy.

In addition, it's a super rare event. Impeachment isn't a very well defined procedure, so we don't know exactly how it works. It was put into the Constitution with less-than-perfect detail. A lot of precedent is set and a lot of unclear or loosely defined laws are interpreted.

From that perspective, it's a huge deal. Every new law or limit that comes out of this is going to be forever attached to this event.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:13 PM   #125
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Yep. Sort of like if I was brought up on charges of shoplifting. Even if I was found innocent, the record will always state that I am a person that was accused of shoplifting.

It's just semantics, really. The left wanting their constituents to take away some tiny bit of a victory out of this after it's all put to bed. Also during the 2020 election, democratic candidates can get on the podium spouting off stuff like, "I am running against a President who was IMPEACHED, for goodness' sakes," and so on.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:22 PM   #126
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Pelosi isn't saying that for the "Left". She's doing it to cuck Trump. His ego can't handle the idea of being ridiculed. She's just rubbing his face in it.

The man is ruled by his passions. He's gotta be losing his mind over this.

I always wondered how the GOP leadership really feels about him. You've got these hardcore political masters like McConnell and Graham who, regardless of your opinion of them, are really REALLY good at getting stuff done. They're stoic. They play everything cool.

Then there's this faberge egg in Trump who cries when some teenage girl makes Time's Person of the Year instead of him. I'd imagine Graham is counting the days to the end of the administration. He made it very clear that he was not on board with this from the get go.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:49 PM   #127
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Then there's this faberge egg in Trump who cries when some teenage girl makes Time's Person of the Year instead of him.

TO BE FAIR...

A person doesn't have to be "fragile" to point out that Greta Thunberg is nothing but an aggravated and ill-informed child who's been manipulated by her "handlers" into throwing a hissy fit without much cause or provocation, and is hypocritically making millions of dollars from her "activism" when she ought to be in school getting an education, "But she CAN'T because it's like two degrees warmer out than it was 50 years ago! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIEEEEE!!!"

All I got from Trump taking a jab at her was, "GOOD, about time someone did." Back in my day kids were seen and not heard. They definitely didn't go around shouting at adults who already recycle, telling them that they're single-handedly ruining their childhood and destroying the planet. Go tell it to China, bitch, I'm over here eatin' my muffin. Maybe she'd deserve to be taken seriously if she did any of her caterwauling at the people in India and China, who collectively contribute to, like, 80% of the entire planet's pollution all by themselves, but surprise, she ain't gonna do that, because they'd collectively tell her, to her face, to go get f*cked, just like they do to anyone who tells them to get their sh*t together. Shouting at people who already agree with you to an extent, even if it's just on loose principle, and have already done their share to "help out", isn't gonna win you any friends. But then, that's the kind of thing you only learn through Actual Life Experience. Bottom line, if she's not gonna go and make her little angry faces at the Chinese government, then she needs to go away completely and button her lip.

So yeah, Trump says a lot of dumb sh*t on Twitter and elsewhere, but THAT specific incident gets a pass from me because more people SHOULD be pointing out the ridiculousness of the Greta situation, but aren't. She's done about as much to earn her "accolades" as Obama did to "earn" the Nobel Peace Prize: F*ck-All Nothin'. Nothing but words. Accolades are for people who have already achieved, not "someone who one day might achieve". Scare-mongering people for attention (and profit!) is not an "achievement".

See, if he REALLY wanted to be mean he would've uncorked on her like he did Rosie O'Donnell. But he didn't. He just gave her some good advice. Hardly a meltdown; dude didn't even say anything that wasn't true. And he was a lot nicer than I would've been, let's just put it that way.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:18 AM   #128
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Pelosi isn't saying that for the "Left". She's doing it to cuck Trump. His ego can't handle the idea of being ridiculed.
That he's gone 3 years with it and still smiling suggests otherwise. He's fine.

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The man is ruled by his passions. He's gotta be losing his mind over this.
That's the general fantasy I see by the left. "He's a wreck! He's falling apart right now! Total breakdown!" Fast forward 6 months... nope. Rinse and repeat, over and over again.

Quote:
I always wondered how the GOP leadership really feels about him. You've got these hardcore political masters like McConnell and Graham who, regardless of your opinion of them, are really REALLY good at getting stuff done. They're stoic. They play everything cool.

Then there's this faberge egg in Trump who cries when some teenage girl makes Time's Person of the Year instead of him. I'd imagine Graham is counting the days to the end of the administration. He made it very clear that he was not on board with this from the get go.
That's actually an interesting topic. They clearly REALLY hated Trump, I remember what they were saying a couple of years back. Then somewhere -- I think, I could be wrong -- in the middle of the Kavanaugh appointment and all the hullaballoo there, kind of all became united in solidarity with him and that's sort of remained through to now. Not that Graham hasn't still swatted at Trump even as recent as a week ago, when Trump said some dumb joke about someone who just died being in Hell vs. Heaven, or something.

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So yeah, Trump says a lot of dumb sh*t on Twitter and elsewhere, but THAT specific incident gets a pass from me because more people SHOULD be pointing out the ridiculousness of the Greta situation, but aren't. She's done about as much to earn her "accolades" as Obama did to "earn" the Nobel Peace Prize: F*ck-All Nothin'. Nothing but words.
Not even her own words. Wasn't her dad outed a few days ago as being the one posting to her Twitter or whatever?
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:05 AM   #129
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That he's gone 3 years with it and still smiling suggests otherwise. He's fine.



That's the general fantasy I see by the left. "He's a wreck! He's falling apart right now! Total breakdown!" Fast forward 6 months... nope. Rinse and repeat, over and over again.



That's actually an interesting topic. They clearly REALLY hated Trump, I remember what they were saying a couple of years back. Then somewhere -- I think, I could be wrong -- in the middle of the Kavanaugh appointment and all the hullaballoo there, kind of all became united in solidarity with him and that's sort of remained through to now. Not that Graham hasn't still swatted at Trump even as recent as a week ago, when Trump said some dumb joke about someone who just died being in Hell vs. Heaven, or something.



Not even her own words. Wasn't her dad outed a few days ago as being the one posting to her Twitter or whatever?
Seeing Trump talk about it on TV, its almost to him like a badge of honor.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:28 AM   #130
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Seeing Trump talk about it on TV, its almost to him like a badge of honor.
Maybe it is, to him. He's not your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:21 AM   #131
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TO BE FAIR...

A person doesn't have to be "fragile" to point out that Greta Thunberg is nothing but an aggravated and ill-informed child who's been manipulated by her "handlers" into throwing a hissy fit without much cause or provocation, and is hypocritically making millions of dollars from her "activism" when she ought to be in school getting an education, "But she CAN'T because it's like two degrees warmer out than it was 50 years ago! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIEEEEE!!!"

All I got from Trump taking a jab at her was, "GOOD, about time someone did." Back in my day kids were seen and not heard. They definitely didn't go around shouting at adults who already recycle, telling them that they're single-handedly ruining their childhood and destroying the planet. Go tell it to China, bitch, I'm over here eatin' my muffin. Maybe she'd deserve to be taken seriously if she did any of her caterwauling at the people in India and China, who collectively contribute to, like, 80% of the entire planet's pollution all by themselves, but surprise, she ain't gonna do that, because they'd collectively tell her, to her face, to go get f*cked, just like they do to anyone who tells them to get their sh*t together. Shouting at people who already agree with you to an extent, even if it's just on loose principle, and have already done their share to "help out", isn't gonna win you any friends. But then, that's the kind of thing you only learn through Actual Life Experience. Bottom line, if she's not gonna go and make her little angry faces at the Chinese government, then she needs to go away completely and button her lip.

So yeah, Trump says a lot of dumb sh*t on Twitter and elsewhere, but THAT specific incident gets a pass from me because more people SHOULD be pointing out the ridiculousness of the Greta situation, but aren't. She's done about as much to earn her "accolades" as Obama did to "earn" the Nobel Peace Prize: F*ck-All Nothin'. Nothing but words. Accolades are for people who have already achieved, not "someone who one day might achieve". Scare-mongering people for attention (and profit!) is not an "achievement".

See, if he REALLY wanted to be mean he would've uncorked on her like he did Rosie O'Donnell. But he didn't. He just gave her some good advice. Hardly a meltdown; dude didn't even say anything that wasn't true. And he was a lot nicer than I would've been, let's just put it that way.
And I'd be much more inclined to agree with you if it was anyone but President Snowflake.

Andrew said that it's a fantasy. It's not. The guy feuds on twitter like a spurned 16 year old.

I expect more from a statesman than misspelled nonsense and cheap shots and children. Comedian? Fine. Pundit? Ok.

President of the United States? Have some class. Especially if one of the biggest reasons his supports love him is his "strong man" persona.

Besides, regardless of how Greta got there? She got there. Which is more than any of us can say. If we're all going to go googly eyed over the "free market", then she apparently played it well enough to get that far ahead.

To contrast this, if I bring up the Trump inherited his wealth and position from his father, you'd find some argument to justify how that's not a big issue. So Greta got help from her father. Seems like the kettle and the pot, then.

Also, let's not kid ourselves. There's no "Left" in the United States. There's the right and then the far right. No one is suggesting any serious "leftist" ideas. Healthcare? Every developed country on Earth has that, left, right and center. Investing in green technology? That just makes economic sense from a business standpoint. Come to me when the means of production are seized and Jeff Bezos is being shot in the street.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:14 AM   #132
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Clinton will be forever remembered as an impeached president. So, too will Nixon and Johnson. That's a part of their legacy.
Nixon wasn’t impeached, he resigned before the vote. I agree with the rest of your post mind you. President Snowflake is conducting himself, especially online, in a way no president has before, and I hope, no president does again.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:43 AM   #133
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Nixon wasn’t impeached, he resigned before the vote. I agree with the rest of your post mind you. President Snowflake is conducting himself, especially online, in a way no president has before, and I hope, no president does again.
It was before the vote? I thought he resigned after but before the trial. Learn something new every day.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:50 AM   #134
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And I'd be much more inclined to agree with you if it was anyone but President Snowflake.

Andrew said that it's a fantasy. It's not. The guy feuds on twitter like a spurned 16 year old.

I expect more from a statesman than misspelled nonsense and cheap shots and children. Comedian? Fine. Pundit? Ok.

President of the United States? Have some class. Especially if one of the biggest reasons his supports love him is his "strong man" persona.

Besides, regardless of how Greta got there? She got there. Which is more than any of us can say. If we're all going to go googly eyed over the "free market", then she apparently played it well enough to get that far ahead.

To contrast this, if I bring up the Trump inherited his wealth and position from his father, you'd find some argument to justify how that's not a big issue. So Greta got help from her father. Seems like the kettle and the pot, then.
If anything, Trump and Greta should be great friends, on account of she's every bit as much a fabrication of the media as he is.

He was right to "take cheap shots" at her because...
1. All she's "accomplished" is to parrot extremely-exaggerated talking points that were forced upon her by manipulative swine who want to hide behind "a child" so nobody can criticize them, as well as posing for staged photo ops. If "TIME Person of the Year" is a real accolade - and frankly, it isn't - and it were between King Trump and Pet Rock Greta, well, at least he's Doin' Stuff. He's a mover and a shaker, for better or worse, while she's simply a macaw.

2. I can't believe it needs to be said, but this "child" insisted upon being used as a public figure, and therefore a lightning rod, and thus shouldn't be shielded or immune from criticism simply because SHE is "fragile". One one hand, people want to say that her "condition" doesn't make her any Less Than or Greater Than anyone else... BUT, nobody can call her out for saying nonsense because "she's a child and she has a condition"? That's pretty unfair. But even if she was neurotypical, she's still the one putting herself in the public eye, making herself a spectacle, and therefore, if she's going to presume to tell everyone with a straight face that they have to go back to living in caves with no electricity while she zips around on a friggin' yacht (while her "handlers" fly around in jets that puke more carbon in a day than I'll produce in my lifetime), then she can take her lumps from people like me who see fit to call bullsh*t.

Two things I was told way before I had my first match: "Don't lace 'em up if you can't take a hit", and "If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band." Someone should have explained what that meant to this "child" before she decided to become a martyr for a questionable cause.
--------------

As for Trump's behavior on Twitter and such... he's a worker, bro. An old-school carny and a master of the game. He knows the role society has cast him in and he's playing it to the hilt. Masterfully, might I add. He could spend all his time denying the stuff people say about him, and try to endear himself to people who already hate him, OR he can lean into it and play the heel to a much bigger reaction. Color me shocked that a guy who's been close personal friends with Vince McMahon for 40 years would know how to "work heel" and get themselves over to such an extent. Mark my words, he knows exactly what the reaction is gonna be before he hits "Send" or "Post" of whatever, every time. It's a game. A Reality TV "star" of all things would know exactly how to manufacture emotion and outrage; all he's doing is exposing what a bunch of marks everyone is, for thinking that he both believes every word he speaks and/or that he doesn't know exactly how people will react when he says it.

When all is said and done, by 2025 he and the Trump "brand" will be worth at least three times whatever he was worth in 2015 and he'll have a very comfortable retirement "writing" books and giving speeches, to a much higher return than before. That's all it's ever been about. This entire thing has been the largest publicity stunt in history and we get to watch it play out on the world stage. I find it both hilarious and fascinating.

His supporters AND his haters are all a bunch of marks. To anyone who considers themselves on the outside looking in, he's simply a skillful puppet master getting exactly the reaction that they want and laughing all the way to the bank while people screech and pull their hair out. It's great fun to watch! IF you're like me and don't think any of it ultimately matters, anyway.

We've essentially allowed a Pro Wrestling Manager to finagle their way into the Boss's Chair, and if that doesn't tell a person everything that's relevant about where we are as a species, then I don't know what else to say. Other than, "We've earned this, so sit back and enjoy the spectacle of it all."

Beats getting ulcers over it, at any rate.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:30 AM   #135
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He was right to "take cheap shots" at her because…
Because he wasn’t. Taking cheap shots at a child from a position of power like that is ridiculous. He’s representing the United States on the world stage. It’s not his job to poke fun at a kid. Nothing screams “I’m a weakling” than lashing out at a child.

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at least he's Doin' Stuff. He's a mover and a shaker,
No, he isn’t. Not in any way that matters. He’s up to his eyeballs in lawsuits, both private, state, and federal. Otherwise, outside of some questionable foreign policy moves, he hasn’t really been all that effective as a legislator or Commander in Chief. We have no Wall. ISIS is alive and well. There’s no solid effort to rebuild our infrastructure. North Korea is still a threat. Wages are still frozen.

The GOP in Congress, on the other hand, have been using this opportunity to push through a lot of their legislation. But Trump? The dude just assigns Kushner to problems that can never be solved.

But him? I haven’t seen any serious moves, outside of the tax cut, that have really gone towards any of his many lofty goals.

And before someone says “he was just exaggerating!” or “no one actually believed that would happen”- then don’t promise it. If a lawn care company promised to have your lawn perfectly and completely mowed in 10 seconds, not only wouldn’t you believe them-you wouldn’t hire them.

I’m paying taxes to fund the government. I want the government to do something FOR ME. It’s our money. These are OUR employees. If you’re paying someone who runs on the platform of either

1. Lying to you bald-faced

2. Insisting that the job they’ve been hired to do is not really possible (even though every other competing company has it down), but should still exist and you should still give them money. But they aren’t going to do anything, because the “government that governs least, governs best”.

Then we fire their ass. And that’s totally possible. We can fix this. We’re just too lazy to do it.

for better or worse, while she's simply a macaw.

We are talking about politicians here. Literally every single one of them say the exact same things. Word for word. Leveling this criticism at someone when comparing them to politicians doesn’t have a whole lot of punch.


Quote:
1. All she's "accomplished" is to parrot extremely-exaggerated talking points that were forced upon her by manipulative swine who want to hide behind "a child" so nobody can criticize them,
Here you say she’s being manipulated.

2. I can't believe it needs to be said, but this "child" insisted upon being used as a public figure,

Here you say she’s insisting upon doing it. Please clarify the point you’re trying to make. Being willingly manipulated is an oxymoron. A person can’t willingly do something unintentionally. Either this was her intent or it was someone else’s.

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But even if she was neurotypical, she's still the one putting herself in the public eye, making herself a spectacle,
But she’s being manipulated to do that. No?

Quote:
Two things I was told way before I had my first match: "Don't lace 'em up if you can't take a hit", and "If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band." Someone should have explained what that meant to this "child" before she decided to become a martyr for a questionable cause.
From a grown man? On twitter? Come on, man. There's a certain way to conduct yourself in public.

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and therefore, if she's going to presume to tell everyone with a straight face that they have to go back to living in caves with no electricity while she zips around on a friggin' yacht (while her "handlers" fly around in jets that puke more carbon in a day than I'll produce in my lifetime), then she can take her lumps from people like me who see fit to call bullsh*t.
Then there’s two major ways we can look at this:

1. Greta knows exactly what she’s doing. If that’s the case, she’s phenomenally successfully at what she does and, thus, deserves praise for being “self-made”. Because that’s just someone using the free market to build their success. People disagreeing with her are just part of a brilliant plan to rake in cash on the backs of manufactured outrage.

In this case, taking a cheap shot at her is poor form because she embodies everything we as a capitalist society cherish. She's a phenomenal showman and has accomplished much more than Trump at her age. She totally deserves as much, if not more than what she's already gotten. She is, at least in market terms, greater than us.

2. Greta is being manipulated into doing this by “handlers” and she doesn’t truly understand what is happening. She’s being pushed into the spotlight by greedy political and corporate machines and is no different than a mascot, at best.

In this case, taking a cheap shot at her is poor form because she’s unaware of her actions and not in control of her own life. That’s tragedy enough and shouldn't be made fun of. We wouldn't mock other children who were manipulated and abused by their elders into doing things that weren't healthy for them.


But the biggest thing that we have to look at here isn’t making fun of people. That’s fine. I don’t care if people are taking pot shots. The issue is whether or not this is proper behavior for an elected official.

I can draw up posts from this thread where someone criticizes my behavior as a moderator. So why am I, as a volunteer moderator on a small corner of the internet, being held to higher standards than the leader of the free world?

Also, please don't lose sight of my argument. The issue isn't whether or not Greta deserved the award or if it even means anything. The question is: is it proper for the President of the United States to openly attack a child over the internet for winning an award that he wanted?

I say no. He should grow up.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:22 AM   #136
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Well, that's certainly your opinion. I say anyone in the public forum is fair game and hiding behind quantifiers is a sign of cowardice. "Can't attack them because they're a child, or a female, or they have Asperger's, or they're a _______." Then WHY are they trying to engage people in a public forum? Either get your hands up or don't stand in the way of people swinging. But don't say "OW! They hit me, that's mean!" after the fact. Nobody goes into a mosh pit for the camaraderie; you expect to take a few stiff ones. Otherwise, stay home.

In her case, as in many, multiple things can be true at once. Greta is absolutely being manipulated by people who see her as a terrific human shield, which is obviously working to great effect since so many people insist that she can't be spoken poorly of for any reason at all. A bunch of people took a child whose faculties are suspect and filled her head with a bunch of Scary Nonsense so they could use her as a prop. Definitely, definitely, definitely. BUT, I also have no doubt that she believes every word of it, that we really are all gonna die in a few years because of a few plastic bags and drinking straws, and that screaming at white people who already "go green" as much as is feasible (rather than take aim at the ones doing most of the actual polluting) is the best way to deal with it. At that point, either she made the decision on her own to become a symbol OR she merely agreed to go along with it, but just because she shows agency on one aspect doesn't also mean that she wasn't manipulated. Both of those things are true at once, it's not one or the other.

Either way, when the world doesn't end in twelve years, she's probably gonna be pretty pissed off at how she wasted her entire childhood shouting at people instead of having fun, and she probably won't take it well. And I can't help but find that kinda sad. But, it's her cross to carry, at this point. Regardless of whatever junk someone put in her head, she could have chosen to stay home and play with her Barbies, but she didn't. Everything now is on her.
---------------------

As for Trump, he's got more money and fame than your or I will ever see in our combined lifetimes, and at the end of the day, that's all anyone is graded on. "Did you die as one of The Elite or did you die a poor schmuck in a pauper's grave?" Everything else is not consequential to the history books, people are ultimately judged by how big a piece of the pie they were able to carve off for themselves, regardless of whatever else happened along the way. "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins." And people only remember that you Win, not how you played the game.

Scandals are irrelevant in the Big Picture. Donald Trump will go down in history as one of the most notorious and powerful human beings of the late 20th/early 21st Century. That can't be changed. People 100 years from now will only care that he was a rich and powerful person. Nobody will care about all the mean things he said or all the bad things he did, because he achieved Elite Status. Jut like nobody cares about John Lennon beating his wife or Jimmy Page keeping a 14-year old sex slave. SHOULD we care? Maybe; probably. But we don't. We only care that these people are High Achievers and we covet their status and ability to get away with things the common rabble can't. That idolization is why we let them get away with so much. It would be NICE if the rich and powerful were also Good People, but... let's be real, that's asking for way too much.

"Proper"? I don't get into all that. I merely accept that the entire point of becoming a Rich And Powerful Person is that you get to do whatever you want with impunity. That's WHY we all chase and worship status to begin with. Trump's achieved that and he's having fun with it. Whether that's Good or Nice or Proper or Fair is a discussion for idealists, and idealists are simply a group of people I don't have a lot to say to on account of we have nothing in common at all.

Because at the end of the day, what You or I think about these people don't matter. Unless your name value has a lot of zeroes next to it, nobody cares what you think or believe. That can be incredibly frustrating, I'll grant, and perhaps the world should not work that way, but it does. In 100 years, Donald Trump will still have buildings named after him, probably more than just that, but you and I and all our bluster will be completely forgotten like we never existed. Because we weren't rich. We don't have the Status required to become a person who anyone's going to listen to or remember. That kinda sucks. But It Is What It Is.

That's why I merely throw rocks from the cheap seats and don't get emotionally invested. I understand why it bothers some people that a person like Trump who's just a carny huckster can immortalize themselves to such a degree, but that's the way the game is played.

I simply don't distinguish between "politicians" and any other celebrity. NOBODY gets into politics to make the world a better place, they do it because they want money and drugs and pussy and free parking, same as everyone else, but they're too ugly to be movie stars and they can't sing or dance, so putting on a suit and giving speeches is all that's left for them to do if they wanna be Rich and Famous. But when the cameras are off, these "leaders of the free world" are snorting horse off the asses of hookers and models just like Kid Rock is. So why look at them, ANY of them, with any more regard than they deserve? Why take ANY of this stuff seriously?

I just don't get it, and I never will. To me, politics is like Pro Wrestling For Grown-Ups. It's all a show, nobody is who they pretend to be when the camera is on, they're all friends in real life, and they're all a bunch of degenerates who'd rather jump off a roof than work a regular job. Getting mad at one of them for cutting a promo on Twitter is silly because they're simply playing a role. Falling in love with one of them for saying Nice Things is silly because that person is also playing a role. "It's all fake, kid, didn't your mom ever tell you that?"

Trump simply does the best job of blurring the lines between his gimmick and his Real-Life Persona, and that's why he's such a polarizing figure but also why he's had such great success despite objectively not being good for much. But again, that's the hustle. But given that it IS all just a work, all I ever see are people spitting sour grapes because he's a better carny than the other carnies.

But again, it pays to be emotionally detached from these kinds of things to begin with.

We'll never agree on this kinda stuff, but at the very least, you have conviction and I definitely respect that. I just personally could never get so worked up about any of it. To me, it's simple theater, and I honestly do find that the healthiest and most enjoyable way to deal with it all.

I'm gonna take a sh*t and then have a nap. But I do enjoy our chats. Stay Gold, Pony.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:47 PM   #137
turtle1237
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Well, that's certainly your opinion. I say anyone in the public forum is fair game and hiding behind quantifiers is a sign of cowardice. "Can't attack them because they're a child, or a female, or they have Asperger's, or they're a _______." Then WHY are they trying to engage people in a public forum? Either get your hands up or don't stand in the way of people swinging. But don't say "OW! They hit me, that's mean!" after the fact. Nobody goes into a mosh pit for the camaraderie; you expect to take a few stiff ones. Otherwise, stay home.

In her case, as in many, multiple things can be true at once. Greta is absolutely being manipulated by people who see her as a terrific human shield, which is obviously working to great effect since so many people insist that she can't be spoken poorly of for any reason at all. A bunch of people took a child whose faculties are suspect and filled her head with a bunch of Scary Nonsense so they could use her as a prop. Definitely, definitely, definitely. BUT, I also have no doubt that she believes every word of it, that we really are all gonna die in a few years because of a few plastic bags and drinking straws, and that screaming at white people who already "go green" as much as is feasible (rather than take aim at the ones doing most of the actual polluting) is the best way to deal with it. At that point, either she made the decision on her own to become a symbol OR she merely agreed to go along with it, but just because she shows agency on one aspect doesn't also mean that she wasn't manipulated. Both of those things are true at once, it's not one or the other.

Either way, when the world doesn't end in twelve years, she's probably gonna be pretty pissed off at how she wasted her entire childhood shouting at people instead of having fun, and she probably won't take it well. And I can't help but find that kinda sad. But, it's her cross to carry, at this point. Regardless of whatever junk someone put in her head, she could have chosen to stay home and play with her Barbies, but she didn't. Everything now is on her.
---------------------

As for Trump, he's got more money and fame than your or I will ever see in our combined lifetimes, and at the end of the day, that's all anyone is graded on. "Did you die as one of The Elite or did you die a poor schmuck in a pauper's grave?" Everything else is not consequential to the history books, people are ultimately judged by how big a piece of the pie they were able to carve off for themselves, regardless of whatever else happened along the way. "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins." And people only remember that you Win, not how you played the game.

Scandals are irrelevant in the Big Picture. Donald Trump will go down in history as one of the most notorious and powerful human beings of the late 20th/early 21st Century. That can't be changed. People 100 years from now will only care that he was a rich and powerful person. Nobody will care about all the mean things he said or all the bad things he did, because he achieved Elite Status. Jut like nobody cares about John Lennon beating his wife or Jimmy Page keeping a 14-year old sex slave. SHOULD we care? Maybe; probably. But we don't. We only care that these people are High Achievers and we covet their status and ability to get away with things the common rabble can't. That idolization is why we let them get away with so much. It would be NICE if the rich and powerful were also Good People, but... let's be real, that's asking for way too much.

"Proper"? I don't get into all that. I merely accept that the entire point of becoming a Rich And Powerful Person is that you get to do whatever you want with impunity. That's WHY we all chase and worship status to begin with. Trump's achieved that and he's having fun with it. Whether that's Good or Nice or Proper or Fair is a discussion for idealists, and idealists are simply a group of people I don't have a lot to say to on account of we have nothing in common at all.

Because at the end of the day, what You or I think about these people don't matter. Unless your name value has a lot of zeroes next to it, nobody cares what you think or believe. That can be incredibly frustrating, I'll grant, and perhaps the world should not work that way, but it does. In 100 years, Donald Trump will still have buildings named after him, probably more than just that, but you and I and all our bluster will be completely forgotten like we never existed. Because we weren't rich. We don't have the Status required to become a person who anyone's going to listen to or remember. That kinda sucks. But It Is What It Is.

That's why I merely throw rocks from the cheap seats and don't get emotionally invested. I understand why it bothers some people that a person like Trump who's just a carny huckster can immortalize themselves to such a degree, but that's the way the game is played.

I simply don't distinguish between "politicians" and any other celebrity. NOBODY gets into politics to make the world a better place, they do it because they want money and drugs and pussy and free parking, same as everyone else, but they're too ugly to be movie stars and they can't sing or dance, so putting on a suit and giving speeches is all that's left for them to do if they wanna be Rich and Famous. But when the cameras are off, these "leaders of the free world" are snorting horse off the asses of hookers and models just like Kid Rock is. So why look at them, ANY of them, with any more regard than they deserve? Why take ANY of this stuff seriously?

I just don't get it, and I never will. To me, politics is like Pro Wrestling For Grown-Ups. It's all a show, nobody is who they pretend to be when the camera is on, they're all friends in real life, and they're all a bunch of degenerates who'd rather jump off a roof than work a regular job. Getting mad at one of them for cutting a promo on Twitter is silly because they're simply playing a role. Falling in love with one of them for saying Nice Things is silly because that person is also playing a role. "It's all fake, kid, didn't your mom ever tell you that?"

Trump simply does the best job of blurring the lines between his gimmick and his Real-Life Persona, and that's why he's such a polarizing figure but also why he's had such great success despite objectively not being good for much. But again, that's the hustle. But given that it IS all just a work, all I ever see are people spitting sour grapes because he's a better carny than the other carnies.

But again, it pays to be emotionally detached from these kinds of things to begin with.

We'll never agree on this kinda stuff, but at the very least, you have conviction and I definitely respect that. I just personally could never get so worked up about any of it. To me, it's simple theater, and I honestly do find that the healthiest and most enjoyable way to deal with it all.

I'm gonna take a sh*t and then have a nap. But I do enjoy our chats. Stay Gold, Pony.
Jimmy Page had a sex slave? That's a new one on me.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:14 PM   #138
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Lori Maddox. She was a groupie he took home after a concert and she lived with him for like a year while he kept her constantly high on cocaine and f*cked her on the daily. It's amazing that it's not a much bigger story given the fact that she was 14 goddamn years old, but it was the 70s, and "That's just how those wacky rock stars live" was the prevailing attitude.

"Sex slave" is sort of a harsh term, I'll grant, but it's not too far off the mark. Even she has described what happened to her by using the word "kidnapped," and her parents weren't happy about it either, but he didn't want to let her leave and she honestly wasn't very inclined to leave anyway, on account of the fact that 14 year old girls generally love cocaine and dick, in no particular order but definitely together as much as possible.

It's worth noting that she herself was Just Fine with the situation, but as has been often pointed out, such as the Roman Polanski situation and others, a 14-year old girl legally can't consent to jack sh*t. And while it's generally accepted that rock stars don't check IDs backstage, and therefore, yes, whoever Your Favorite Rock Star is they're almost definitely a pederast either by choice or at the very least by accident... there's a huge difference between banging groupies backstage at a show and taking one home with you, then literally keeping them even after you find out that you're racking up a chain of felonies by doing so.

But that's the thing, it's not a big story because Nobody Cares. I mean, what's done is done, I'm not saying go arrest the guy right now and make him live out the rest of his life in jail. I'm just saying that when it comes to the Rich And Powerful and their sordid misdeeds, all we tend to remember is the fact that they had lots of money and got laid a lot. We throw the rest of it out because it interferes with our hero-worship.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:50 PM   #139
turtle1237
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Lori Maddox. She was a groupie he took home after a concert and she lived with him for like a year while he kept her constantly high on cocaine and f*cked her on the daily. It's amazing that it's not a much bigger story given the fact that she was 14 goddamn years old, but it was the 70s, and "That's just how those wacky rock stars live" was the prevailing attitude.

"Sex slave" is sort of a harsh term, I'll grant, but it's not too far off the mark. Even she has described what happened to her by using the word "kidnapped," and her parents weren't happy about it either, but he didn't want to let her leave and she honestly wasn't very inclined to leave anyway, on account of the fact that 14 year old girls generally love cocaine and dick, in no particular order but definitely together as much as possible.

It's worth noting that she herself was Just Fine with the situation, but as has been often pointed out, such as the Roman Polanski situation and others, a 14-year old girl legally can't consent to jack sh*t. And while it's generally accepted that rock stars don't check IDs backstage, and therefore, yes, whoever Your Favorite Rock Star is they're almost definitely a pederast either by choice or at the very least by accident... there's a huge difference between banging groupies backstage at a show and taking one home with you, then literally keeping them even after you find out that you're racking up a chain of felonies by doing so.

But that's the thing, it's not a big story because Nobody Cares. I mean, what's done is done, I'm not saying go arrest the guy right now and make him live out the rest of his life in jail. I'm just saying that when it comes to the Rich And Powerful and their sordid misdeeds, all we tend to remember is the fact that they had lots of money and got laid a lot. We throw the rest of it out because it interferes with our hero-worship.
Well the 70's were before my time lol.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:21 AM   #140
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Well, that's certainly your opinion.
And it’s a commonly accepted part of the social contract. There’s no way for a man to attack a girl and NOT look like a bully. Public opinion is going to paint the man as a jerk, more often than not.

Quote:
I say anyone in the public forum is fair game and hiding behind quantifiers is a sign of cowardice.
That was never part of my argument. I said Trump looks like a weakling for attacking a teenage girl. And not even based on anything of merit. Trump was cracking wise about not getting an accolade. One that we both agree is kind of “meh”, at the very least.

Quote:
"Can't attack them because they're a child, or a female, or they have Asperger's, or they're a _______."
Attack away! That was never my point. My point, again, is that the man didn’t have to do this. He’s the most powerful man on the planet, and he’s taking time out of his day to trash talk a kid? Get a life.

Quote:
Then WHY are they trying to engage people in a public forum? Either get your hands up or don't stand in the way of people swinging.
You don’t really believe this. You, yourself, have been attacked on these forums by assholes and expected some kind of consequences. If you disagree with the girl’s message, that’s fine. If you believe that her message, or that her giving it in public forum, automatically disqualifies her being treated with basic human decency and respect. . . then I have no idea how to reconcile the discrepancies in your views.

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Nobody goes into a mosh pit for the camaraderie;
I do. Mosh pits only work when everyone looks out for each other. Otherwise it’s just a fist orgy. Who the hell are you moshing with?

Quote:
you expect to take a few stiff ones.
True enough. But I’m not talking about incidents of chance. I’m talking about someone bigger and stronger than you deliberately taking a shot.

It’d be unwise to let a child in a mosh pit, sure. But no one would be defending a guy who saw the child and decided to cold-**** them one regardless because “hey! It’s a mosh pit and I’m way stronger than they are!”


Quote:
In her case, as in many, multiple things can be true at once. Greta is absolutely being manipulated by people who see her as a terrific human shield, which is obviously working to great effect since so many people insist that she can't be spoken poorly of for any reason at all. A bunch of people took a child whose faculties are suspect and filled her head with a bunch of Scary Nonsense so they could use her as a prop. Definitely, definitely, definitely. BUT, I also have no doubt that she believes every word of it, that we really are all gonna die in a few years because of a few plastic bags and drinking straws, and that screaming at white people who already "go green" as much as is feasible (rather than take aim at the ones doing most of the actual polluting) is the best way to deal with it. At that point, either she made the decision on her own to become a symbol OR she merely agreed to go along with it, but just because she shows agency on one aspect doesn't also mean that she wasn't manipulated. Both of those things are true at once, it's not one or the other.

Either way, when the world doesn't end in twelve years, she's probably gonna be pretty pissed off at how she wasted her entire childhood shouting at people instead of having fun, and she probably won't take it well. And I can't help but find that kinda sad. But, it's her cross to carry, at this point. Regardless of whatever junk someone put in her head, she could have chosen to stay home and play with her Barbies, but she didn't. Everything now is on her.
None of this is relevant to the image of a man mocking a child.

---------------------

Quote:
As for Trump, he's got more money and fame than your or I will ever see in our combined lifetimes, and at the end of the day, that's all anyone is graded on.
And so does Greta. But you graded her on her message and surrounding people. This argument doesn’t have legs.

Quote:
"Did you die as one of The Elite or did you die a poor schmuck in a pauper's grave?" Everything else is not consequential to the history books, people are ultimately judged by how big a piece of the pie they were able to carve off for themselves, regardless of whatever else happened along the way. "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins." And people only remember that you Win, not how you played the game.
By dismissing moral integrity as a metric, you leave a hole in your argument that I can drive a tank through.

This is why it’s so easy to say “Oh, so you think Hitler was that fantastic? We should be celebrating Stalin? How about Kim Il Sung or Mao Ze Dong?”

You need to start putting nuance in your arguments, or else I can’t respond to them meaninfully.

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Scandals are irrelevant in the Big Picture. Donald Trump will go down in history as one of the most notorious and powerful human beings of the late 20th/early 21st Century.
We don't live in the big picture. We live right now.

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That can't be changed. People 100 years from now will only care that he was a rich and powerful person.
Closing in on a century after WWII, and I can say without reservation that reputation lasts a bit longer than that.


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Nobody will care about all the mean things he said or all the bad things he did, because he achieved Elite Status.
This kind of selfish motivation is why our society is broken. Justifying actions based on the personal wealth and glory it garners is the social equivalent of cancer. This is exactly how sociopaths think.

Quote:
Jut like nobody cares about John Lennon beating his wife or Jimmy Page keeping a 14-year old sex slave.

SHOULD we care?
Yes.

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Maybe;*probably. But we don't.
I do. Even if it's just an interesting fact that the King of the Hippies was a stone cold woman beater. The question is can you separate the art from the artist? There’ve been psychological studies done on this. A lot of people care, so long as the reputation is cemented. We don’t intro to Lennon songs with “And here’s another chart topper from famous wife beater and international asshole: Johhhhhn Lennon!”

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We only care that these people are High Achievers
I don’t. And I know a few people who are more than happy to live a peaceful, low key life. I’ve been around the world and the biggest thing that struck me: we’re all the same. Save for a few outliers, everyone wants LITERALLY the same thing. Go to work, come home, not be hassled, enjoy some free time. That’s it. And the fact that we’re not all burning down Bezos’s or Koch’s home to take as much as we can get our grubby mits on is strong evidence to that.


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and we covet their status and ability to get away with things the common rabble can't.
The only reason they get away with it is because we let them. These people aren’t special. They bleed like everyone else. How many of them actually EARNED what they have by themselves? How many of them weren’t born into millions or billions?

This whole “they’re elite” notion is ********. They won the lottery. Bezos? Zuckerberg? Gates? Sure. Trump? Koch? They’re pretenders who, without what they were given, wouldn’t be able to do it again.

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That idolization is*why*we let them get away with so much. It would be NICE if the rich and powerful were also Good People, but... let's be real, that's asking for way too much.
Again, you idolize this man? Because he has a lot of money? That can’t be all you aspire to. There’s at least six things I can think of off the top of my head that are literally priceless to me. There’s no realistic or pretend number you could give that would make me consider budging.

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"Proper"? I don't get into all that. I merely accept that the entire point of becoming a Rich And Powerful Person is that you get to do whatever you want with impunity.
This philosophy is going to end poorly.

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That's WHY we all chase and worship status to begin with
.

To literally get away with murder? I just want a Nintendo switch and to pay off my mortgage, man. I don’t have a hit list.

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Trump's achieved that
No, he hasn’t. It was given to him on a silver platter.

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and he's having fun with it.
Everything you're saying completely dismantles any argument you have against any complaints against literally anyone else, so long as they have more money and status than you. If Hillary Clinton were to get a sex change, become King of America, and demand that everyone else get their junk removed for her amusement, that falls right in line with what you’re saying.

You REALLY need to dial back on the apocalyptic nihilism. I understand you have a grim view of humanity, but insisting that might makes right isn't going to pan out in the long run. Sooner or later, you're going to expect justice be done on your behalf, and you'll be upset if it doesn't come. In terms of argument, you're falling flat right out the gate.
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