IDW Limited

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Stop doing these expensive rich-collector-only limited-for-the-sake-of-it books. We are comicbooks readers, not art collectors. If I want my books signed I take them to convenctions and have them signed, if I want some original art I ask the artist for a commission. We don't need items that are limited on purpose, just for the sake of it. Put your effort in doing good affordable books for all: Ultimate collections were good enough, we don't need Ultimate Deluxe collections.
I wonder what they would do if they ever manage to have Laird doing some sketch and signs. $2000 Super Extreme Ultimate Deluxe editions?

Not sure I agree with this. I think it's kind of lame to say something is bad just because you aren't interested in it or because it's outside your budgetary scope.

You simply can't use the royal "we" in this case. Because many of us ARE art collectors. Many of us ARE interested in this level of collectible. You can't tell them they shouldn't do something simply because you, a single consumer, don't want it. The imprint has already proven itself in sales. There is a big enough market interested in this level of collectible to sustain it. So more power to them.

I also don't think that doing these books are taking many resources from the other books. That is why IDW Limited is it's own imprint with its own schedule, and it's own resources. Nate can probably speak more to this.

[FoxZerro]

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

I also don't think that doing these books are taking many resources from the other books. That is why IDW Limited is it's own imprint with its own schedule, and it's own resources.

I only said that because these books are showcasing original art from Kevin Eastman and Bobby has been saying on the IDW boards for sometime that he is waiting for Annotations and the Cover from him. Regardless of a separate inprint, Kevin Eastman is one man, and if there is more money to be made on these Ultimate Deluxe editions, which mathematically there is since 420 > 50, 350 > 50, and 125 > 50. One could easily imagine that these books would take precedence.

Originally Posted by frank_one

Stop doing these expensive rich-collector-only limited-for-the-sake-of-it books. We are comicbooks readers, not art collectors. If I want my books signed I take them to convenctions and have them signed, if I want some original art I ask the artist for a commission. We don't need items that are limited on purpose, just for the sake of it. Put your effort in doing good affordable books for all: Ultimate collections were good enough, we don't need Ultimate Deluxe collections.
I wonder what they would do if they ever manage to have Laird doing some sketch and signs. $2000 Super Extreme Ultimate Deluxe editions?

I agree, I understand that some people out there are in fact Art Collector's I myself have some pretty cool and unique prints from some of my favorite artists. Still I preferred when getting a signed comic book meant going to a signing or convention... not just buying it off the internet.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

I agree, I understand that some people out there are in fact Art Collector's I myself have some pretty cool and unique prints from some of my favorite artists. Still I preferred when getting a signed comic book meant going to a signing or convention... not just buying it off the internet.

But even then, why would any of that be cause for them to stop being produced? If you don't want them...don't buy them. Plenty of people want them, and buy them. Stopping production would not have any positive impact on the people who don't like them...but it would have a negative impact on the people who DO want them. So saying they shouldn't be made just because you don't buy them is a pretty selfish play.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

I agree, I understand that some people out there are in fact Art Collector's I myself have some pretty cool and unique prints from some of my favorite artists. Still I preferred when getting a signed comic book meant going to a signing or convention... not just buying it off the internet.

There's nothing stopping you from buying the regular edition and takin it to a convention to get signed. It's not like Kevin won't sign those simply because the Limited books exist.

[Oculus Orbus]

I'm not an art collector nor a completitionist, but I enjoy owning some original art from artists I admire and every now and then I do buy variants and such. The issues included in this volume are massively important for me, and an edition like this is something I've been wanting for many years. I honestly don't see how this hurts the other, more affordable editions of the same material. Granted this books are not for everyone, but it's not like the stories in it are restricted to only the Deluxe version.

Personally, I'm aware that I could get Eastman's art for less than that, but I'm also buying an extremely nice book, and yes, with a very limited run (wich plays a big role in the price). I would still buy it despite the number of copies printed, but I understand that the less there are, the more it costs. I remember when we paid $10 for the last issues of Mirage Vol.4 not that long ago.

Of course we don't "need" this collections, but there are people willing to buy them, and at the end of the day, publishing companies just want to make money. I think the effort put in this things is worth the money, so that's why I'm buying it, but that's just an opinion and everyone's gonna have their own.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

I only said that because these books are showcasing original art from Kevin Eastman and Bobby has been saying on the IDW boards for sometime that he is waiting for Annotations and the Cover from him. Regardless of a separate inprint, Kevin Eastman is one man, and if there is more money to be made on these Ultimate Deluxe editions, which mathematically there is since 420 > 50, 350 > 50, and 125 > 50. One could easily imagine that these books would take precedence.

The point that Kevin Eastman is only one man, I get. But either way, IDW is going to keep thinking up ways to find cool things for him to do. I'm bummed that the cover isn't ready yet, but I don't think it would necessarily be done sooner if these didn't exist. He'd probably just be working on something else.

The math part is where you lose me. There is supply AND demand. You can make a $350 book, but if you only make 10, you can't compare that to 1,000 $50 books sold. Sure, there is some monetary incentive from these publishers to put out these collectible books, but it's a little nutty to say these take precedence over their main reprint books which have way higher runs. In the end, as long as they don't replace the more affordable books for everyone, there's nothing being taken away, only added.

[Chris]

Oh man, if I'd known about these in time I would have been all over a Blue label.

Black label (Leo) is tempting, but since I'd be getting it for the art not the book I'm not sure I can justify the price (495 for the group shot in color is a bargain, 350 for 1 character's not as easy to justify to my bank balance, or my wife, this close to Christmas).

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

which mathematically there is since 420 > 50, 350 > 50, and 125 > 50.

Yeah, this is just terrible math.
The print run for the unlimited versions of a UC hardcover are unknown to me, but for the sake of argument, lets just say it's double the limited "convention" version print run (which is 500).

So lets use the $50 price point you proposed as a baseline for the unlimited (it would actually be a little less on their end since they don't sell them direct at that price...but let's not over-complicate this).

$50 x 1000 = $50,000 Retail for the Unlimited Print run

And you know what? For kicks, lets add in the "convention" print run of the same book, since all the extra work for those is production and manufacturing work. No extra work for the artist.

So another $50 x 500 = $25,000 retail

So far we have roughly $75,000 in retail for the Non-artist involved copies.

Now. Lets do some quick math for the IDW Limited versions. We aren't even going to count the added production costs of the books that are hand crafted.

Blue Label $500 x 10 = $5,000
Black Label $350 x 40 = $14,000
Red Label $325 x 125 = $40,625

So Retail for Limited is $59,625. About $15,000 LESS in retail than the regular books.

Now, there is going to be a variance due to the fact that the Unlimited books get a percentage taken from Diamond for them that the Limited books don't since they are sold Direct. But there is also a cost variance going the other way since the Limited's are much more expensive to produce and they have to pay a page rate to the artist for the extra art.

My point is that, the Limited imprint doesn't exist for IDW to make hand-over-fist money from the collector base, and they aren't fleecing people who buy them. It exists because they want to provide the service for the collectors. IDW Limited is a credibility engine for IDW, not a money maker.

Food for thought.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

Yeah, this is just terrible math.
The print run for the Unlimited versions of a UC hardcover are unknown, but for the sake of argument, lets just say it's double the limited "convention" version print run (which is 500).

So lets use the $50 price point you proposed as a baseline for the unlimited (it would actually be a little less on their end since they don't sell them direct at that price...but let's not over-complicate this).

$50 x 1000 = $50,000 Retail for the Unlimited Print run

And you know what? For kicks, lets add in the "convention" print run of the same book, since all the extra work for those is production and manufacturing work. No extra work for the artist.

So another $50 x 500 = $25,000 retail

So far we have roughly $75,000 in retail for the Non-artist involved copies.

Now. Lets do some quick math for the IDW Limited versions. We aren't even going to count the added production costs of the books that are hand crafted.

Blue Label $500 x 10 = $5,000
Black Label $350 x 40 = $14,000
Red Label $325 x 125 = $40,625

So Retail for Limited is $59,625. About $15,000 LESS in retail than the regular books.

Now, there is going to be a variance due to the fact that the Unlimited books get a percentage taken from Diamond for them that the Limited books don't since they are sold Direct. But there is also a cost variance going the other way since the Limited's are much more expensive to produce and they have to pay a page rate to the artist for the extra art.

My point is that, the Limited imprint doesn't exist for IDW to make hand-over-fist money from the collector base, and they aren't fleecing people who buy them. It exists because they want to provide the service for the collectors. IDW Limited is a credibility engine for IDW, not a money maker.

Food for thought.

I agree with your thinking that it is more cost beneficial for idw to make the normal hardcovers, but saying that all these books sell for 50 isn't very accurate. I bet a ton of people that get these get them from amazon where they are about 28 dollars. Regardless of this, there are so many factors that change, (could the print run be higher? how much extra work does it really take to make these hand printed editions? How much are they paying Kevin for all that extra drawing he has to do?) That I do think the normal hardcovers are a bigger money maker for them.

BUT, I'm sure Idw knows there will be people like us that will double dip and buy both

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by HotJuicyBurgers

I agree with your thinking that it is more cost beneficial for idw to make the normal hardcovers, but saying that all these books sell for 50 isn't very accurate. I bet a ton of people that get these get them from amazon where they are about 28 dollars. Regardless of this, there are so many factors that change, (could the print run be higher? how much extra work does it really take to make these hand printed editions? How much are they paying Kevin for all that extra drawing he has to do?) That I do think the normal hardcovers are a bigger money maker for them.

BUT, I'm sure Idw knows there will be people like us that will double dip and buy both

Yeah i was going off the MSRP since thats what the other guy was going off of. But even so, If EVERY copy sold for $28, thats 28,000 + $25,000 (every copy of the convention versions DO sell for $50 since they are directly sold). So the lowball is $53,000. Again, that would be assuming every person that bought the book did so through Amazon.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

Yeah i was going off the MSRP since thats what the other guy was going off of. But even so, If EVERY copy sold for $28, thats 28,000 + $25,000 (every copy of the convention versions DO sell for $50 since they are directly sold). So the lowball is $53,000. Again, that would be assuming every person that bought the book did so through Amazon.

Which I'm sure isn't the case at all

I'm actually a bit curious as to how many people like original art here? I know that owning a piece of published art is on of the coolest things on the planet(at least for me anyways), but I'm less inclined to pony up my cash for things that are unpublished. They way I see it, for these books, I would only be in it for the art since to me, I own that book already. And to me, it doesn't make too much sense.

[Oculus Orbus]

Originally Posted by HotJuicyBurgers

Which I'm sure isn't the case at all

I'm actually a bit curious as to how many people like original art here? I know that owning a piece of published art is on of the coolest things on the planet(at least for me anyways), but I'm less inclined to pony up my cash for things that are unpublished. They way I see it, for these books, I would only be in it for the art since to me, I own that book already. And to me, it doesn't make too much sense.

I don't feel like I own that book already, despite having a good bunch of different collections of those issues. To me, specially when it comes to this kind of fine editions, the book as an object acquires a lot of value. I love high end quality books just for what they are. Said so, I wouldn't be buying it if I didn't like its content.

I wish they had worked out something different for the cover to make it stand out better from the regular Ultimate Collection, similar to what they did with Change Is Constant (wich looks a lot better, more stylish), but still, the book, with the tray case (slipcase in the Red Label ones), portfolio and all is gonna look beautiful.

[natecm]

Originally Posted by Oculus Orbus

I don't feel like I own that book already, despite having a good bunch of different collections of those issues. To me, specially when it comes to this kind of fine editions, the book as an object acquires a lot of value. I love high end quality books just for what they are. Said so, I wouldn't be buying it if I didn't like its content.

I wish they had worked out something different for the cover to make it stand out better from the regular Ultimate Collection, similar to what they did with Change Is Constant (wich looks a lot better, more stylish), but still, the book, with the tray case (slipcase in the Red Label ones), portfolio and all is gonna look beautiful.

Maybe check out the product vid to see the cover a little closer, it's really nice (in my opinion). We all love this book, it's awesome. Wait til you hold it. The cover's uncoated, combined with UV gloss. Hmm...better add that to the site description now.

Glad you like the Change Is Constant cover though

[Oculus Orbus]

I checked the videos, and they really look awesome indeed, I can't wait for them to ship. I've got a doubt, though. What kind of paper did Kevin use for the original art? It looks kind of shiny and not very sturdy in the videos.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Originally Posted by Oculus Orbus

I checked the videos, and they really look awesome indeed, I can't wait for them to ship. I've got a doubt, though. What kind of paper did Kevin use for the original art? It looks kind of shiny and not very sturdy in the videos.

Toilet paper from Kevin's personal collection

[Oculus Orbus]

Originally Posted by HotJuicyBurgers

Toilet paper from Kevin's personal collection

Hey, I didn't know you were so extremely funny! What an incredible joke!

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by Oculus Orbus

I checked the videos, and they really look awesome indeed, I can't wait for them to ship. I've got a doubt, though. What kind of paper did Kevin use for the original art? It looks kind of shiny and not very sturdy in the videos.

I would be willing to bet that the art used for the demo video is a color copy.

[natecm]

Originally Posted by Oculus Orbus

I checked the videos, and they really look awesome indeed, I can't wait for them to ship. I've got a doubt, though. What kind of paper did Kevin use for the original art? It looks kind of shiny and not very sturdy in the videos.

Nice catch! That's a high-res scan. Didn't want to run the risk of hurting the art during the shoot. The illustration is on very sturdy 250-gsm sketch paper.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by natecm

Nice catch! That's a high-res scan. Didn't want to run the risk of hurting the art during the shoot. The illustration is on very sturdy 250-gsm sketch paper.

Hah! I win!

[Oculus Orbus]

Originally Posted by natecm

Nice catch! That's a high-res scan. Didn't want to run the risk of hurting the art during the shoot. The illustration is on very sturdy 250-gsm sketch paper.

Great, I'm very excited!