Alternate 1989: TMNT failed

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Imagine it's an alternate 1989. The MWS series has failed, and got cancelled in December 1988 after just two seasons. The 1988 action figures also failed, and the Archie comics were cancelled in September 1989 after completing adaption of "The Incredible Shrinking Turtles". Forget major international marketing beyond the borders of the USA. And of course, no 1990 film is recorded. The screenplay may exist, but left rottening for years somewhere in an attic.

It's Thursday 23 November 1989, Thanksgiving Day in the USA, and tomorrow is Black Friday. Christmas approaches. But most children in this timeline don't want TMNT toys for Christmas gifts. (they aren't easy to find anymore, as production ceased in early-1989)

So, how do you think.

1). What would happen to the TMNT franchise during the upcoming years?
2). Do you think any more major attempts would be done to market the TMNT for a younger audience?
3). What other franchises, and kind of franchises would be popular instead during the upcoming years?

[CyberCubed]

So you're saying if the show only had 18 episodes? Then it would have been nothing more than one of those other obscure 80's or 90's cartoons that got canceled quickly, and only remembered by a small handful of people.

The comics would have continued to 1995/1996 as usual. I don't think the Image deal would have happened as TMNT wouldn't have been viewed as a popular IP, and then that would be it until Mirage tried again.

We probably would have never gotten any other cartoons either, as if it didn't prove successful in the 80's when it was new they likely wouldn't have tried again. Likewise there would be no 1990 movie either, as the movie rights would have never been sold if TMNT wasn't a successful cartoon.

[Prowler]

Actually... I believe TMNT would have gotten some cult following even if it had been cancelled two seasons in. Let's not forget the internet has made it easier for people to find hidden gems from the past and other rare obscure stuff. I'm sure someone would have eventually found out about the 1987 Turtles cartoon and make it known to some younger people.

Tons of shows out there weren't the most popular around but have gotten a cult following. Nothing would stop TMNT from getting one either. And I bet its action figures would be worth A TON these days... if they aren't already.

And btw, the season 2 finale had a very final episode vibe to it. In fact, when I finished this episode as a kid I assumed that was the final one since the Technodrome sunk into lava at the end. It's like the writers and producers knew this could possibly be the final episode.

[oldmanwinters]

I think Eastman and Laird would have still gone their separate ways eventually as their creative visions developed. They wouldn't have been quite as distracted with the marketing side of the franchise, but they probably would have made a few more issues cooperatively while still letting their friends do issues. I'm not sure City at War would have happened as it did, as it felt like a self-conscious effort by E&L to do a no-nonsense approach to the characters, perhaps in some way acknowledging how zany the franchise's reputation had become without directly referencing it. Return to New York might have happened, but I expect even that story might have had a bit more humor and levity to it too.

[CyberCubed]

You also have to realize no other company probably would have taken the risk on TMNT, look at how other shows like Bucky O'Hare failed in the same time period.

TMNT would have likely just remained an indie comic for as long as Pete/Kevin wanted it to.

[Prowler]

Tbh OP's question doesn't make much sense. I mean, if the first two seasons had been the same as they were in this scenario and Playmates had made the toyline as well... then how could this fail? Is this some hypothetical scenario where kids who originally got hooked to the FW cartoon from episode 1 on actually didn't in some kind of parallel universe?

It'd make more sense if you asked what if some other studio had taken care of the cartoon series and some other company had done the toyline.

[Spike Spiegel]

Does this scenario mean no 1990 movie?

That would make a huge difference.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

Does this scenario mean no 1990 movie?

That would make a huge difference.

Yes. I forgot that, but added it now.

[ZariusTwo]

On one hand, I would'nt have gotten my favorite seasons (3, 7, 8, 10)
On the other hand, no Next Mutation

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The funny thing is that no one would have suspected the FW toon to be incomplete since season 2 ends on a very final note, with Shredder and Krang supposedly killed by the lava.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

The funny thing is that no one would have suspected the FW toon to be incomplete since season 2 ends on a very final note, with Shredder and Krang supposedly killed by the lava.

Yeah, there is a real sense of finality to it. I had kinda forgotten there was no indication at the end of Return of the Technodrome that anybody inside might have survived. Shows today are so addicted to cliffhanger endings that they could never get away with a sense of closure like that nowadays.

[biganimefan]

Wow...what a dark, depressing AU! lol, j/k...somewhat. Turtles really was a huge lifeline for me back then.

But I think Mirage would have continued it's original series until it did in reality. Or it could have ended a few years earlier(like maybe by the time City at War would have come out). I think though that Turtles could have been tried again in the video format. Either live action or animated. BUT, I do think that if it were animated, we'd get something a lot closer to the Mirage origin. Say in this AU, cartoons aren't viewed largely as "just for kids" and we get something that makes serious use of the words "Teenage. Mutant. Ninja. Turtles." We might have gotten something fairly serious animated wise, or even live action.

[Spike Spiegel]

Perhaps there would have been a grittier reboot after Batman: The Animated Series hit the scene in '92. Definitely after Gargoyles...

Maybe something like the 1990 film would have existed regardless? Who's to say that those first two seasons wouldn't get a lot of syndicated reruns?

[ABrown]

What still surprises me is that the original cartoon was still active from seasons 8-10. Action cartoons just typically do NOT last that long. Five seasons for an action cartoon is a very good run, no matter what year, but not very many make it past that.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by ABrown

What still surprises me is that the original cartoon was still active from seasons 8-10. Action cartoons just typically do NOT last that long. Five seasons for an action cartoon is a very good run, no matter what year, but not very many make it past that.

I was not surprised it was a long cartoon since, at some point, TMNT were the hottest thing on the planet. But to make it close to 200 episodes was ineed impressive.

There were about 3-4 instances where I feared the FW series would be over:

- Return of the Technodrome: The Technodrome sunk into lava with Krang and Shredder in it. I didn't expect them to survive. Hell, even the battle between Splinter and Shredder had that feel to it. A very Star Wars-like feel.

- The Big Blow Out: I mean... a 3 parter episode finale for a massive season? It felt like it was gonna be the end.

- Shredder Triumphant: Immediately the title of this episode caught my attention and I knew something big was gonna happen. Shredder and Krang finally outsmarted the Turtles for a while and it honestly felt like the Turtles were in danger at the hands of Shredder for the first time in ages. Hence why this episode felt like it could be the dead last episode of the series.

- Turtle Trek: Well the Turtles destroy the Technodrome yet again... maybe this time it'd be the end?

...oddly enough, I didn't expect Divide and Conquer to be the finale. When the episode ended, I expected Shredder and Krang to return for a few episodes for the Turtles to finally beat them for good, since it wasn't clear Shredder and Krang had been defeated when they returned in that 3 part episode in season 10. So when the next day I turned on the tv at the usual channel and usual time... and Turtle Tracks was on I was a bit disappointed heh

So yeah, I was a bit surprised and happy it got close to 200 episodes. Being a kid watching one new episode everyday was quite fun and it entertained me for about 6 months and a half or so.

But I was WAY more surprised over the 2k3 series longevity. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect it to reach 157 episodes or whatever that number was. Hell, not even 100 did I expect it to make. I honestly thought season 2 or season 3 would be the last season. Especially as I've heard that season 3 was gonna basically be the final battle with Ch'rell. It's funny how a show that wasn't as big as the other tow cartoons and is somewhat forgotten these days was able to get 7 seasons and about 3 changes or so. Ninja Tribunal, Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers. And a second Fast Forward season was planned even. It felt like this series was never going away, as it filled in my entire teenage years.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

During the upcoming years, I guess.

No Biker Mice from Mars

No (western) Power Rangers

No Extreme Dinosaurs

No Street Sharks

Maybe no 1990's Batman?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Well, it's my understanding that the movie-deal was separate from the cartoon/toy deal, and came from the comic's popularity rather than the cartoon's. So, we'd probably still get the movie (though, who's to say the movie would lead to anything if the cartoon and toys already flopped).

Mirage TMNT would have probably been fine, probably doing better since there would be no "guest-era" to chase off some of it's readers and there would be less indie-comics fans denouncing E&L as "sell-outs" and turning their backs on TMNT. The Palladium RPG would proabably be going strong too for the same reason.

Good points though that "City at War" might not have happened, and thet E&L might have still grown apart after awhile. Here's a question, do you think their comic careers would have stayed mostly turtle-related or do you think they'd have gone on to do lots of other unrelated comic projects if TMNT hadn't become such a big deal?

So, much like if the cartoon/toy deal never happened. My guess is that Mirage would have kept up it's popularity as a comic book, and today would be known as a cult comic series like Bone, or Cerebus, or Sandman. Known to comic fans, and respectably successful, but not a household name that made it's creators millions. The difference here is that it probably wouldn't have gotten any film or TV adaptations in the future because that was already attempted and failed.

Unless of course, a Mirage fan in the TV or Film industries attributed the cartoon's failure to it's departure from the source material...

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

During the upcoming years, I guess.

*No Biker Mice from Mars
*No (western) Power Rangers
*No Extreme Dinosaurs
*No Street Sharks
*Maybe no 1990's Batman?

We'd probably still get '90s Batman and Power Rangers, but definitely no Street Sharks or Battle-Toads(which would be the "silver lining" to this).

[CyberCubed]

The 1990 movie only happened due to the popularity of the cartoon. Don't kid yourself, the movie deal would have never happened if TMNT wasn't a huge phenomenon and fad among kids at the time. You also have to realize 1989-1990 was also around the height of Turtlemania in U.S.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The 1990 movie only happened due to the popularity of the cartoon. Don't kid yourself, the movie deal would have never happened if TMNT wasn't a huge phenomenon and fad among kids at the time. You also have to realize 1989-1990 was also around the height of Turtlemania in U.S.

This. Also, in some countries the FW series didn't start airing until 1990 or so... around the time the movie came out.

The comics were never popular to the point of getting a movie. If they were popular then more than 1% of the world's population would know of them, certainly... Hell, I don't think even 1% of the world's population has heard of the Mirage comics, let alone read them.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

Power Rangers.

Do you really belive we would get western Power Rangers? It felt they tried to ride the TMNT wave of successes.