Feminist Analyses

[Hannah]

I know this might be a longshot, but has anyone written/read any reviews or analyses of the new show from a feminist perspective? I'm writing one right now and would love to hear others' input. I'll probably post it here when I'm done; not sure if any of you are even into that. Would love to discuss here too! I am way fond of April in this show.

[plastroncafe]

I spend the bulk of my internet time in the corner that crosses feminism and fandom, and I haven't seen anything like that yet.

I'd very much like to!

[Berserker]

Yep, I've read this article, which name drops this very site:

http://doknowbutchie.wordpress.com/2...y-problematic/

tl;dr version: author takes issue with the show because April apparently doesn't have a personality and there are no head-strong women hero role models and so TMNT is sexist and detrimental to society blah blah blah. Load of junk.

If a feminist wants to talk about how male-oriented action shows should appeal to girls too, then I'll kindly point them to the nearest Brony fan site and tell them that My Little Pony needs more buff male stallion heroes to appeal to boys.

(Hey, remember when the Smurfs were actually a metaphor for an anti-semitic Marxist utopian dialectic?)

[Sage Ninja]

yeah...I see this sh*t going well...feminsit anything really seems to raise the hackles of most men including women (with varying degees of justification), so I predict a sh*t storm brewing...

[Katie]

I read the article.....it references a post made hwere on the same subject.....but I must have missed that post. Anyway I thought the article was bad.

Also, why we need to dissect a kids cartoon to this degree? Need more Quiltbag! April has a body!

Kids.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

yeah...I see this sh*t going well...feminsit anything really seems to raise the hackles of most men including women (with varying degees of justification), so I predict a sh*t storm brewing...

I disagree. I think the majority of this fanbase realizes TMNT has a severe shortage of female characters.

[CyberCubed]

This is why they should bring in Irma in the show as April's classmate.

[Sage Ninja]

I meant feminism in general, not as it pertains to TMNT per se.

But yeah, there is a shortage of female characters in TMNT. Personally I was never particularly bothered by it. ALot of times the introduction of a female character in a show where the cast is mostly male ushually means she is going to be the "love interest" of one of them or become a source of conflict between two or more of the male memebers. That type of thing normally gets on my nerves.

[Konchadunga]

For all that has been written about the chauvinism of male cartoons (and it's not entirely invalid), I'd argue that a lot of these shows are more progressive than girl-centric shows, in that they at least had a few strong females. Superfriends had Wonder Woman, the original feminist heroine. Transformers had Arcee. G.I. Joe had Scarlet and Lady Jaye. By contrast, a lot of stuff made for girls actually reinforces female stereotypes propped up by chauvinism, like pink stuff, tea parties, lack of conflict, etc. Other shows that have tried to be feminist sometimes prop up Mary Sues, like Kim Possible. This feminine deficiency is changing, but it left such a stamp on the past that I feel the relative stigma masculine shows get is unfair.

[Hannah]

I do not want this thread to be an argument about whether feminism is relevant or justified or whatever. I'm really not interested in dealing with that ****. I am interested in discussing the representation of female characters within the show.

Despite a questionable introduction (we first see her in a slow-mo "she's the most beautiful girl I've ever seen!" entrance) as Donatello's love interest, I think this is easily the strongest representation of April we've ever had. I can't get enough of her. She seriously kicks so much ass. The first words she says are "You can't keep us in here like this! We know our rights!" and it's just sooo much better than the screaming-at-a-sight-of-a-rat-even-though-she-lives-in-NYC April. I do think the show still maintains an alarmingly small number of lady characters (and unfortunately they've added in two female characters for Splinter's backstory just so they could be killed off to further his development) but I think this show is making some good steps towards better representation. Irma's been hinted at as a possible character, and I'm hoping April's aunt gets involved somehow.

Originally Posted by Katie

I read the article.....it references a post made hwere on the same subject.....but I must have missed that post. Anyway I thought the article was bad.

Also, why we need to dissect a kids cartoon to this degree? Need more Quiltbag! April has a body!

Kids.

Please do not post in this thread again. I want a discussion, I don't need people like you derailing it.


EDIT: I am also starting to read that post about the pilot episode. I like it so far. I think it's always important to remember that just because something is sexist or has sexist elements doesn't mean you can't still love it. It's just important to understand and identify what the problematic elements are.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, there is speculation that Karai is actually Splinter's lost daughter, Miwa, but since that hasn't been confirmed as canon yet, we can't really say for sure if it'll happen or not. Also, I like the fact that Splinter has such a backstory that makes him seem more human in some respects. You can tell he has a longing to go back to how it used to be, but he remembers that he has four sons to care for and that he can't dwell on the past as much as he'd like to.

I do agree that there haven't been a lot of female characters, but I agree that April is awesome.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Hannah

Despite a questionable introduction (we first see her in a slow-mo "she's the most beautiful girl I've ever seen!" entrance) as Donatello's love interest, I think this is easily the strongest representation of April we've ever had. I can't get enough of her. She seriously kicks so much ass. The first words she says are "You can't keep us in here like this! We know our rights!" and it's just sooo much better than the screaming-at-a-sight-of-a-rat-even-though-she-lives-in-NYC April.

Just curious, what do you think of original toon or 4kids April then? Is Nick's April a better role model than the one from the previous two cartoons?

[Oculus Orbus]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Just curious, what do you think of original toon or 4kids April then? Is Nick's April a better role model than the one from the previous two cartoons?

It is not always about wich one is a better role model per se, it's about the value and weight of the character. A show can hold feminist values and not have femenine role models, simply by giving the female characters some weight in the story. It could be done through villains just fine.

[Donatello19]

Maybe they're scared to introduce female characters because of the fans' reactions to Venus. IMO, they should bring back Mona Lisa.

[NinjaMan]

My wife and daughter don't seem to mind. They each have their own favorite turtle and seem indifferent to April

[TheSkeletonMan939]

The reason TMNT doesn't have females is because females are really just love interests on TV shows. And the idea of a giant walking turtle falling in love with a human is creepy. The Nick show tries to make it look cute, but it's pretty disturbing if you think about it.

[CyberCubed]

If they brought in Irma, Mona Lisa and Ninjara they can add female characters.

In terms of villains both Tempestra and Shreeka would be good.

[Hannah]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Just curious, what do you think of original toon or 4kids April then? Is Nick's April a better role model than the one from the previous two cartoons?

Like Oculus Orbus said, a character doesn't have to be a good role model to be a good character. But I think in this situation it is important that the character of April be a good role model for girls because of the lack of well portrayed female heroes. Especially considering that the main audience of this show is children.

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

The reason TMNT doesn't have females is because females are really just love interests on TV shows. And the idea of a giant walking turtle falling in love with a human is creepy. The Nick show tries to make it look cute, but it's pretty disturbing if you think about it.

"Females are really just love interests on TV shows." Come on. Do you really believe that? And if that were the case, why would you just accept it instead of challenging it?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Hannah

"Females are really just love interests on TV shows." Come on. Do you really believe that? And if that were the case, why would you just accept it instead of challenging it?

I don't watch much TV, but in most TV shows I've seen, be it cartoons, British dramas, or whatever, women just seem to be the love interest of the male main character.

[demonsweat]

I find nothing sexist about this show. The TMNT story is about four male mutant turtles - that's the story being told here. Any other character is going to be a supporting character and won't have as much focus. I find it strange that some people think that the amount of female characters vs. the amount of male characters in a show determines whether or not it's sexist.

April is a fine representation. She's tough and smart. Yeah she's Donnie's love interest, but he's the one head-over-heels for her, not the other way around. Her character is much more focused on things like school, or finding her dad. She was even brave enough to infiltrate a Kraang hideout by herself and deliver a wire-tapped pizza (her idea) to the Purple Dragons. And Karai is another good example. She's crafty, witty and very skilled as a ninja. Both of these characters strike me as very independent in their own ways. And isn't the leader of the Kraang rumored to be female? Or at least voiced by one. I dunno, an evil female overlord sounds pretty cool to me.

I actually do find it offensive when some people go looking for sexism in things like this. There are plenty of things out there more deserving and it really just hurts the whole feminism cause, to be honest. Nitpicking this show is missing the forest for the trees - these females aren't making sammiches for the turtles, they're fighting them and cracking wise.