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Old 08-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #21
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I like how open-minded Kevin Eastman has been over the years. As someone else has said he seems like a much more fun-loving person than Peter Laird.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:13 AM   #22
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Kevin seems more loose and open, although some would say too open. I think it stems from the fact that he just seems like a really nice guy. Going by the various video interviews I’ve seen with him over the years, he just comes across as someone who is too nice for his own good. I think that’s part of the problem, he’s just too nice to say “I don’t like it”.

Peter is basically the exact opposite. Out of two, I would much rather work with Kevin. Peter seems far too rigid for his own good. An immovable object. The vast majority of comments he has for things that he’s not directly involved with pertaining to TMNT seem to be either outright negative, or incredibly guarded. His comments can sometimes come across as being very bitter, too. I’m not convinced he doesn’t regret selling off the rights. He comes across as a saner and slightly more passive version of Alan Moore.

In a way, I’m actually shocked that they created one of the most influential franchises ever between them. They just seem like completely different human beings. I guess their differences balanced each other out.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #23
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While I'd love to comment, I'd more or less be reposting the words of Old Man Winters.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:32 AM   #24
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For the record, I don't believe Kevin Eastman has ever publically voiced any dislike for any incarnation (or even any aspect therein) of TMNT ever, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:36 AM   #25
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For the record, I don't believe Kevin Eastman has ever publically voiced any dislike for any incarnation (or even any aspect therein) of TMNT ever, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form.
I'm pretty sure I remember an interview where he stated he didn't like Secret of the Ooze.

But yeah, you're not far off.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:57 AM   #26
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I'm pretty sure I remember an interview where he stated he didn't like Secret of the Ooze.
I know he said that in a recent episode of Cowabunga Corner.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #27
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Kevin, to me, has always seemed like a guy who can't believe he fell ass-backwards into millions of dollars. It's as though he came up with this idea on a lark and never dreamt it would turn into something as huge as what it became. He went along for the ride and enjoyed it. Laird, on the other hand, seems like a guy who wanted to be an illustrator and never got that chance, and who spent many years making concessions and compromises almost to the point of becoming embittered.

I think their personalities are far different from one another, and that's probably why the few things they DID do together were so fantastic. But it's also why they quit working together. Sometimes when you're full of passion and pushing up against something, you produce your best work. When you're comfortable and don't have to worry, and everything kind of goes your way, the work suffers, I think.

I don't blame Eastman for embracing anything and everything Turtle-related (though I thought and still think Venus was a stupid idea). I'd probably do the same thing if a producer wanted to turn my self-published property into a teevee show. But I'd also want creative control to an extent... So I can see both sides of it.
I think that's a pretty good point that I hadn't really considered when I made my earlier post. I think that analysis makes a lot of sense, considering what we've read of Peter's thoughts on whether or not he'd "do the whole thing again."
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #28
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You can kinda sorta get where Laird is coming from since he had a hand in creating the original TMNT and saw them turned into kiddyfare. I mean this is the equivalent of that Family Guy episode where Brian had a serious dramatic screenplay, had a chance to have it on TV, but the execs turned it into a raunchy comedy with James Woods.

This is kind of the reason why Stan Sakai chooses to not have Usagi have his own show on any other media. He doesn't want his character to be kiddyfied or made 'cool for the kids' or whatever. Eastman embraces the Turtlemania, Peter regrets selling out.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:21 PM   #29
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Peter is basically the exact opposite. Out of two, I would much rather work with Kevin. Peter seems far too rigid for his own good. An immovable object. The vast majority of comments he has for things that heís not directly involved with pertaining to TMNT seem to be either outright negative, or incredibly guarded. His comments can sometimes come across as being very bitter, too. Iím not convinced he doesnít regret selling off the rights. He comes across as a saner and slightly more passive version of Alan Moore.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Alan Moore here.

But in case my words earlier came off like I don't like Laird - that's not it. I'm indebted to both him and Eastman equally for creating a franchise that I love in a plethora of forms, that I continue to love to this day. And as different as they seem, that could have been why Turtles worked, is that two completely different mindset people created it.

But between the two, I'd definitely be much happier meeting Eastman at a convention or something somewhere. As others have said, he seems to be a much happier person overall.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:21 PM   #30
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You can kinda sorta get where Laird is coming from since he had a hand in creating the original TMNT and saw them turned into kiddyfare. I mean this is the equivalent of that Family Guy episode where Brian had a serious dramatic screenplay, had a chance to have it on TV, but the execs turned it into a raunchy comedy with James Woods.

This is kind of the reason why Stan Sakai chooses to not have Usagi have his own show on any other media. He doesn't want his character to be kiddyfied or made 'cool for the kids' or whatever. Eastman embraces the Turtlemania, Peter regrets selling out.
All I know is, if someone wanted to offer me the kind of deal with my self-published property that the Turtles ended up with, I'd take it in a heartbeat!
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #31
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For the record, I don't believe Kevin Eastman has ever publically voiced any dislike for any incarnation (or even any aspect therein) of TMNT ever, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form.
Exactly...there has to be some sort of order, a line must be drawn...okay, maybe "must" is a strong word, but I'm personally of that mindset; which is why I would take Laird's TMNT anyday over Eastman's. BodyCount was horrendous. I suppose I'm also slightly biased because I'm not the biggest Casey Jones fan, and I like Raphael but he'd probably be my least favorite Turtle. Eastman has, throughout the years, put these two characters in the spotlight and I find it redundant. Peter clearly favors Donatello and (arguably) Fugitoid, yet you never see these two take so much spotlight as the duo of Raph & Casey.

I don't dislike Eastman, how could I? Yet his vast and seemingly endless openness to any sort of recreated or rehased TMNT media is alarming as a die-hard fan of this franchise.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:13 AM   #32
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I also think it bears mentioning that Eastman's had lots and lots of trials and tribulations of his own within "The Industry" at a variety of companies. I think as such, he has a certain understanding and acceptance that you need to let go of your death grip on "your" property if you're ever going to make money on it. I think Laird is/was an "artist" and Eastman is/was a "businessman". That's probably WHY they complemented each other so well, and why Pete's always the "No" guy (over-protective of "his" sacred IP), and Kevin's always the "Yes Man" (anything for $$$).

I think it gets a little annoying when Kev jumps on every TMNT idea and says it's amazing (especially the awful ones), but Laird's stuff hasn't always been brilliant, either. We GET it, buddy, you really, REALLY like Jack Kirby. A lot of people in comics do, they just don't feel the need to remind everyone every 5 minutes. I mean, Grant Morrison does, but he's allowed because... y'know... people actually read his stuff.

Just to hop on that for a second, since we all know Pete is a huge Kirby fanatic, WHY exactly do some Mirage TMNT fans get so bent out of shape when sci-fi stuff comes into the property? If anything, the Kirby sci-fi influence was not only ALWAYS part of the TMNT DNA, in my opinion it's even more ingrained into it than the so-called "realistic Japanese ninja" stuff that's allegedly so important. Sorry to go off-topic, just a random thought.

Long story short, I think Eastman comes across as a shameless shill because he understands that comics/toys/cartoons/films are a commercial medium, the name of the game is MONEY, and a little (or a LOT of) compromise is essential. Pete, I honestly think, had greater aspirations than TMNT and is resentful he didn't get there, probably because this "silly TMNT thing" took over his life. I think he's ashamed that "all" he'll ever be known for is TMNT, while Kevin simply counted the zeroes and said "That's life".
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:54 AM   #33
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I'm pretty sure I remember an interview where he stated he didn't like Secret of the Ooze.
Probably because of the toned down/practically nonexistent violence.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:33 AM   #34
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I would have agreed Laird was both painfully dictatorial and artistically-sound at the beginning seasons of the 2003 series, but some of the later stuff really makes me wonder what happened. The last three seasons positively reek of selling out, and make me think maybe Laird defeated himself. That's rather ironic; the whole time that the Fred Wolf series was running on and being unfaithful to the Mirage series, Laid didn't lose any steam in pushing the latter, but once he tried to do a "faithful-to-Mirage" cartoon series, it ended up making him hate the entire franchise, and doom the Mirage series by selling it. At some point, maybe hate consumed him.

If I had to pick sides, objectively, I'd say my own creative mindset is probably closer to Peter Laird's, but nothing whatsoever will justify his extreme rudeness to me. I don't think I've seen a single positive review of any media on his blog.

Eastman is a harder personality to understand in some ways. Perhaps he never stopped seeing TMNT as a joke, which is how he intended it, and so for him, it's nothing to get hot and bothered about, but that makes me wonder why he went from ignoring this series for a decade to becoming obsessed. Perhaps he is deliberately capitalizing on an anti-Laird, liberal backlash. Part of me wonders if he and Laird call each other up and scream obscenities at each other--or don't talk, for fear things will go that way.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:26 AM   #35
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How was Laird rude to you?
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #36
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Sorry; when I said "to me," I meant "in my opinion."
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:52 AM   #37
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To me Kevin seems like he's more in line with most of us, a dude who genuinely loves comics, and wasn't doing it to set out to be rich, but wanted to just make a living doing something he loved & enjoyed, comics. I think that's a dream a lot of us really have at heart, at least I know I do, and the fact that his creation took off, was so surreal, he didn't let the money change him, he was still the same fun loving dude who wanted to just enjoy the ride & create just like always, some of it went great, other parts not so much, but he was still having fun with it & never lost site of why he did it, because he loved it. It really seemed like he has told the stories he wanted to tell & taken the criticism well. Peter seems to be the complete opposite, taking everything very seriously. It seems to me that Peter took everything so seriously, and tried so hard to prevent HIS vision of what TMNT should be, pure (you can't blame him for wanting that) that it burned him out. It's hard to keep a co-created property flowing in the same direction when the co-creators have such different visions, and while on the outside looking in, it certainly seems like Eastman was probably more flexible than Laird.

Honestly now, by reading the Annotations in the Ultimate Collection, Peter is so bitter, that for a lack of a better term, he seems like a jerk. From the outside we'll never know exactly what problems and friction arose while they were collaborating and who was to blame, but Peter has very little good things to say in the Annotations about some of Kevin's decisions in some of the issues. I'm sure he has his reasons for feeling that way & its probably justified, but for us, who can only read what he writes on the subject, and not know the actual circumstances, it leaves him standing there like the villain.

His comments & criticism of the IDW series, which has been pretty much loved by most, certainly don't help his case either.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:48 PM   #38
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I'm pretty sure I remember an interview where he stated he didn't like Secret of the Ooze.

But yeah, you're not far off.
I heard him say the OT skewed younger and younger as it went on at the Boston Comic Con last year.

Interesting to note Laird once said on his blog that he actually liked the music in COOTS.
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It was definitely not a kid's book.
That was the thing that always mystified me about the turn the franchise took when Eastman and Laird licensed the cartoon and the parallel comic book published by the same outfit that gave us Archie. The turtles' original origin story? The whole thing hinges on a for-Christ's-sake rape-murder!!!!
from here.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:53 PM   #39
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Someone Mentioned Eastman like the Venus De Milo character. Wonder what his reaction to Mona Lisa was.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:02 PM   #40
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What is that supposed to mean exactly?
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