Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by federal judge

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Am I the only one here who has actually been on the benefitting side of it? People like me and Mr D, who would be paying 800$ a WEEK OUT OF POCKET without it, for treatments that are literally keeping him alive. And that is JUST for the dialysis itself. That's more than my entire paycheck! But thankfully, he has his ACA aid. (This includes medications- his ACA insurance and Medicare/SSDI pay for almost everything. Our OoP expense for meds are usually 1-2$ per prescription.) My job, in contrast, offers only a plan that has a 6,000$ deductible, most of which is out of pocket, before it even pays anything. I turned it down. BUT! I don't even make enough in a year to have ever been "taxed" for not having it. (This loophole for low-income families was ALWAYS there, so I don't get the hate that people have for it, unless they make over the "lower limit" income to avoid the tax penulty. It is 24,000$/yr, btw.)

I think the ACA has helped many people, but I feel like we can do better. As I said before we should do away with the penalty entirely and make it a tax credit instead. My friend could not afford health care coverage, but did not qualify for assistance or medicaid and is about to get hit with the penalty unless he some how finds coverage soon.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Nobody denies life-saving care though. My father almost died a dozen times and had I don't know how many heart surgeries. He used to open his hospital bills just to show me and laugh, before throwing them in the trash.

If a person is in life-threatening condition, they still have to treat you. They just HOPE to get paid "something", but a huge number of people simply don't pay their medical bills. That's partly why everything costs so much on paper; they have to make up the difference somewhere. Nobody that I'm aware of gets denied life-saving care, and my family is full of broke, sick, and dying people.

Now, what actually happens is, you just ruin your credit. And if a person can't afford health insurance, their credit is probably already pretty bad anyway. But you can still get care if it's that serious.

I absolutely don't think it's a "good" way to get through life, but the idea that "People die from not being able to pay medical bills" simply isn't true.

In any case, I hope things get better for you both.

In theory, this is true, but that is for hospital care, not clinic visits for on-going treatments for "pre-existing conditions". Those, they most certainly can stop giving, if they don't see payments. They simply stop scheduling your treatments, and let nature take its inevitable course. Since the treatments are entirely voluntary and up to the patient to find a way to get to, they can do that. In other words, "if you can't get to your treatments or pay for them, we don't have to keep scheduling you for them". It sucks, but we've seen a number of patients who just went broke and stopped going on their own because they could no longer afford them. And they only last a few months after stopping. But the clinic has no obligation to continue them if they can't pay. (Though they have social workers who try to find ways to help with funding or insurance issues, but no guarantees there.) It may be different by state, but here, at least, hospitals HAVE to take you, but voluntary treatment centers don't neccessarily have to treat people with no funds.

[Leo656]

Is the E.R. equipped for this? Again, that's not ideal, I'm just spitballing possible solutions.

My Dad's diabetes wasn't as serious as your husband's, but he did have fairly serious heart disease alongside of it (as mentioned). I know he had MediCare and his monthly Social Security/Disability check was about $1200. I'unno how he actually paid for his insulin and all his other stuff, but he got it. And whenever he had need of anything else, he just went to the E.R. and laughed off the bill. Since he knew he'd be dead soon anyway. He was a character.

So I don't know, just trying to throw out ideas. Both he and my aunt were "dying" of serious disease (hers was advanced Emphysema) for 20-odd years before they finally kicked off. Both had very little money and nobody to help them out. But they managed to get everything they needed, somehow. if I knew more, I'd definitely toss it out there, I just don't have that information, because... y'know... I don't have a Ouija Board.

I'd love to say it's because "NJ is more awesome than Texas". but even though that's undeniably true, I'm not sure that's the reason for the disparity.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Sadly, nope. Dialysis requires full admittance, ergo, moved out of er and into ICU, which they can and do eventually check you out of- after recommending a treatment clinic, of course. Now, it CAN be done at-home, for an insane amount of money for the machine, not to mention rewiring and minor home renovation costs to accomodate it (also, no pets, apparently the home has to be kept "sterile")- but the easiest and "cheapest" route is still in-clinic care, which has nurses, constant medical supervision and secondary treatment in case of emergencies (ie, heart attack, blood sugar issues, etc) attached. Far better than trying to do it yourself at home.

And even then, patients can literally die in the waiting room while waiting to be called back to get hooked up (it's anywhere from three to five hours with two basketball-gauge needles in one's arm or chest, for those curious). It happened to a guy here a few weeks ago. They were calling patients back, and when it was his turn, he didn't wake up. He had diedwhile sitting in the waiting room napping, and no one even noticed until they couldn't wake him. A couple have even died while hooked up. In any case, most ERs don't have a machine, you have to actually be admitted to the hospital iteself for that, due to the time required.

[Candy Kappa]

Three days ago my partner who have diabetes, had a serious hypoglycaemia episode that was like a seizure. First time in our 10 year relationship I've experienced that, so I called an ambulance and got help from the ambulance personnel when they arrived.

The idea of getting billed by an emergency like that is absurd.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Three days ago my partner who have diabetes, had a serious hypoglycaemia episode that was like a seizure. First time in our 10 year relationship I've experienced that, so I called an ambulance and got help from the ambulance personnel when they arrived.

The idea of getting billed by an emergency like that is absurd.

I wouldn't say it's "absurd," but it shouldn't be a crazy cost, either. Emergency medical professionals aren't working for the Church.

[Candy Kappa]

it is absurd. You pay taxes for a reason.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yikes! I've dealt with a few of those. Once was even so bad he was completely unconscious and unresponsive. Usually I can get some soda or something sugary down him without resorting to the paramedics, but let's just say they know his name by now. We usually don't go to the er, just get his blood sugar back up to normal levels while they are there, but yeah, the bills for such "visits" are ridiculous.

[Leo656]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I highly doubt that taxpayer dollars come anywhere close to matching the overhead, not in the medical industry or anywhere.

Everybody'd have to be taxed over 50% of their income and we're absolutely not doing that. Taxation is already theft by design ("I did not agree to give you any of my hard-earned money; you just tell me I have to give it to you or else you'll lock me up. Why not just use a gun and make the whole thing honest, at least?"); asking people to throw in more than they already do isn't realistic.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

it is absurd. You pay taxes for a reason.

But hospital workers and ambulance companies don't work for the government.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I highly doubt that taxpayer dollars come anywhere close to matching the overhead, not in the medical industry or anywhere.

Everybody'd have to be taxed over 50% of their income and we're absolutely not doing that. Taxation is already theft by design ("I did not agree to give you any of my hard-earned money; you just tell me I have to give it to you or else you'll lock me up. Why not just use a gun and make the whole thing honest, at least?"); asking people to throw in more than they already do isn't realistic.

It's here in Norway, and no one pays 50% in tax. The person that pays that much in tax is a student that didn't file for a tax card, so that they'd get the overpaid amount of money back for summer vacation. I did that once, 'twas awesome and went to Disneyland.

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society, and enjoying societies goods.

I wasn't billed for the ambulance, my mom didn't have to file for bankruptcy when my appendix tried to kill me and my grandma didn't have to think about cancer treatment bills after my late grandpa. A healthcare system should be built on safety and quality not revenue and profits

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But hospital workers and ambulance companies don't work for the government.

That's pretty f*cked up

[Leo656]

I don't think what works for 5 million people works the same for 325 million people.

I mean, maybe. I just know that when I teach a group class, for example, it's a totally different class if there's 5 people vs. 25 people. Some things just don't work universally, because not all things are equal.

I notice a lot of people from other countries who say, "The U.S needs to just do ____. Like us!" fail to factor in that things like total population are totally different, along with many other things.

What's good for the goose is generally NOT good for the gander, as it were. Otherwise this would all be a lot easier.

And while I agree that taxes are a necessary evil, it's still theft on its face. Anytime someone demands that you give them something, and you did not explicitly offer it, that's at the very least coercion. But that's a whole other debate. I agree that we need them, but I am very much against them being any higher than they already are. Some of us are already in a, "I can't afford to make more money or they're just gonna take more and I'll actually bring home less than I do now" situation. People shouldn't be "afraid" of getting a raise or working more hours, but it can cripple your paycheck, depending on where you fall in.

Sh*t's complicated.
-----------

Yeah, my buddy is an EMT, they don't get paid very well. Partly why so many of them burn out and get suicidal; the compensation they receive is in no way comparable to the life-saving work that they do.

It shouldn't be that way, but... well, if you notice, in life, whenever anyone says "I got into the ______ business because I want to help people," the flipside of that is, they're gonna struggle to pay their bills. That's why everyone wants to be in the NFL or NBA but nobody wants to be a teacher.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't think what works for 5 million people works the same for 325 million people.

Norway isn't the only country with a normal healthcare system.

But I guess baby steps would be for the US to stop being the Pharmaceutical lobby's bitch and actually do something about it instead of dismantling what little healthcare there is. *shrug*

[Leo656]

Well, we put ourselves in a bad spot by painting ourselves into the corner we're in, where pharmaceuticals are the only thing we produce anymore. Most everything else, we import. Thus, pharmaceuticals are going to remain a high-profit business.

It was incredibly short-sighted to outsource all the manufacturing jobs overseas, and it didn't happen overnight, but it is what it is, now. Drugs is what we make, drugs is what we sell, and drugs is what we're gonna make people pay through the nose for.

The flipside of not wanting to pay $75 for a T-shirt. Life sucks, cryin' don't help.

[Candy Kappa]

A in-US made t-shirt would cost $75, yikes.

[Leo656]

Probably. Especially if it was sold at a Rolling Stones concert.

[Candy Kappa]

Some people are willing to pay for that just because the shirt have a small crocodile for a logo.

Which is also absurd

[Andrew NDB]

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Norway isn't the only country with a normal healthcare system.

But I guess baby steps would be for the US to stop being the Pharmaceutical lobby's bitch and actually do something about it instead of dismantling what little healthcare there is. *shrug*

Now this I'm in full agreement with you. Stop subsidizing the health insurance companies. Open the companies back up to the private sector encourage competition and the prices will drop. Premiums and deductibles went sky high after Obamacare was passed.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

Premiums and deductibles went sky high after Obamacare was passed.

Yep. My premium went way up, the deductible increased about 500%, and the actual quality of my coverage went down. I really appreciated that, thank you.