Do you find there is a war on negativity?

[Katie]

Isn't it kind of cynical to think that most people who liked a "bad" movie (in your opinion) and say they liked it are doing so just to save a franchise? Or that they should be brushed off because they aren't as sophisticated as the ones that share your opinion...or they don't know "the business" like you do?

I think the discussion of movies has gotten out of control on the internet. There is a bit of a hive mind and if for whatever reason you happen to be someone who enjoyed a movie that the internet didn't, you get called a sheep ( I don't get this because...aren't the sheep the ones who all have the same view?) or an idiot or whatever else to the point that some people stop sharing their true thoughts and join the hive or just stop talking about what they like all together.

And that's bad because then the perception that " what we think is right must be right" grows because its all you see.

Its sad really.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Katie

Isn't it kind of cynical to think that most people who liked a "bad" movie (in your opinion) and say they liked it are doing so just to save a franchise? Or that they should be brushed off because they aren't as sophisticated as the ones that share your opinion...or they don't know "the business" like you do?

I think the discussion of movies has gotten out of control on the internet. There is a bit of a hive mind and if for whatever reason you happen to be someone who enjoyed a movie that the internet didn't, you get called a sheep ( I don't get this because...aren't the sheep the ones who all have the same view?) or an idiot or whatever else to the point that some people stop sharing their true thoughts and join the hive or just stop talking about what they like all together.

And that's bad because then the perception that " what we think is right must be right" grows because its all you see.

Its sad really.

Its sad that folks liked OOTS just because Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome were (sort of) in it... and can't see it for how horribly written it was on a whole.

Do I like some terribly flawed films, sure I do. But do I run around telling other people they aren't "true fans" because the film in reality does suck but they should support it regardless? No.

The big issue I see today is that if you point out flaws on something, its seen as "bad". Knowing your flaws, and trying to make better on it is usually a damn good thing to do...

So if OOTS had a better storyline and the Turtles were four and half feet tall or so, then it could have been awesome. But a two hour love note to the cartoon, which I've recently been trying to watch again, not so much. Lets have better writing, stories that make a bit more sense and some good old fashioned comic book logic and someone who actually likes the franchise...

[Katie]

Its fine to have a negative opinion of a movie. Its not ok to bash someone else for their different opinion no matter what the reason.

I wasn't even talking about any specific movie but since you brought up the recent turtles movies, thats a perfect example. Look at the craziness it caused here.

Same with the Marvel movies vs the DC movies.

Its not bad if you liked the turtles movies. Its also not bad if you liked Batman vs. Superman. Its not bad if you hated them. People like movies or don't like movies for a variety of reasons. None which are "right" or "wrong". What I don't like seeing is the elitist attitude that some people on the internet have about movies and put down people who liked this movie or that movie or don't like the darling movie.

I think people get too wrapped up in their fandoms and what they want to see and forget that other people may have other ideas or be open to liberties with these fictional characters.

I think its a shame that people are attacked on the internet because they have a different opinion on something as silly as a movie.

Who says your version is the "better / best" of the character? Some of these characters have been around for nearly a hundred years. Haven't they changed in that time? Don't you think that during those changes people bitched about the changes? But guess what? The properties survived and changed some more and thats ok.

[Vegita-San]

but you also have the positive people doing the exact same thing, usually with the hive mind mentioned earlier, so they can stand out louder against the 'negative' people.


I usually don't mind if you like something, even as something as pointless as PD turtles. it's how you present it that i have the problem with.

and i find most of the positive people tend to be not only combative, but personally insulting. like you insult their long dead mother.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

but you also have the positive people doing the exact same thing, usually with the hive mind mentioned earlier, so they can stand out louder against the 'negative' people.


I usually don't mind if you like something, even as something as pointless as PD turtles. it's how you present it that i have the problem with.

and i find most of the positive people tend to be not only combative, but personally insulting. like you insult their long dead mother.

Yeah, this exactly. I even got booted from a TMNT FB group from some "positive" people simply because I didn't like the PD Turtles flicks. I do love the Turtles and I had high hopes for the movies. The second one was a little better than the first as it was FUN for the most part, but it still had serious issues from a writing/storyline standpoint.

Man of Steel & BvS are also examples of movies I wanted to do well but also be well written and I think the actors are great for the most part but I just hate them both so much.

Marvel movies are easier for me since I'm not really a fan of Marvels characters beyond Spiderman.

Its when either side just comes out and hates on the fans, each other, because they like or dislike something thats the issue.

Tell a better story and leave the personal attacks home in your moms basement (directed at no one, just figureatively speaking).

[IndigoErth]

The extremes of both sides bug me, esp the whole PD TMNT thing... And they legitimately good films? Not really. But acting like it's the Jesus of Turtle films (as some were doing before 2014 came out), or on the flip side as if they (or at least 2016) have no redeeming qualities (often claimed by those who have chosen to never see it)... both ridiculous.

How are we to ever get decent films again if people are not equally welcome to point out what was good (or at least improved on) and what sucked, so film makers can get a realistic idea of what is working. (Because like it or not, these big films are prob going to be handed to people who know little about the material.) Just acting like a brainwashed cult member who willingly loves anything or an inconsolable child who hates everything and refuses to even bother looking for something likeable, helps no one. (But if film makers refuse to even consider the public opinion for guidance then they're on their own.)

[Vegita-San]

i personally don't see why people don't give something, even if they don't agree with it, at LEAST a chance to be viewed.

In some cases, like DC films, where you've been burned twice before and don't want to be burned a third time if it looks like more of the same, i can see that stand point, but at least give it a chance. even if you think you'll hate it. at least then you can trash it properly if you want

that's what i did with the PD turtle films, and to me, they HAVE no redeeming quality, because they where made by people who don't understand the franchise and where doing it just to make a quick buck.

at least next mutation tried to have a little heart and fun, however misguided it was. PD turtles was just mindless....at least to me.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

The extremes of both sides bug me, esp the whole PD TMNT thing... And they legitimately good films? Not really. But acting like it's the Jesus of Turtle films (as some were doing before 2014 came out), or on the flip side as if they (or at least 2016) have no redeeming qualities (often claimed by those who have chosen to never see it)... both ridiculous.

How are we to ever get decent films again if people are not equally welcome to point out what was good (or at least improved on) and what sucked, so film makers can get a realistic idea of what is working. (Because like it or not, these big films are prob going to be handed to people who know little about the material.) Just acting like a brainwashed cult member who willingly loves anything or an inconsolable child who hates everything and refuses to even bother looking for something likeable, helps no one. (But if film makers refuse to even consider the public opinion for guidance then they're on their own.)

That's the thing, I saw both (free passes) and tried to give them both the benefit of the doubt... But story wise, they are god-awful movies... Yes two fixed some things from the first... Now some folks reading that will hate on it saying I'm hating on the films. Criticism is NOT a bad thing... Also, I agree with you saying people who didn't see them are terrible. Can you tell the movies suck just from trailers, sure but you can't tell how bad they suck from just the trailers... Superman Returns for example, seemed like it was going to be awesome, and as a Supes fan who was in the local paper in 2006 on the day the movie came out, it was disappointing to see how horrible that film turned out...

Returns was too stalkerish.
MOS was too alien. BvS was horrid. DC is rushing.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

i personally don't see why people don't give something, even if they don't agree with it, at LEAST a chance to be viewed.

In some cases, like DC films, where you've been burned twice before and don't want to be burned a third time if it looks like more of the same, i can see that stand point, but at least give it a chance. even if you think you'll hate it. at least then you can trash it properly if you want

that's what i did with the PD turtle films, and to me, they HAVE no redeeming quality, because they where made by people who don't understand the franchise and where doing it just to make a quick buck.

at least next mutation tried to have a little heart and fun, however misguided it was. PD turtles was just mindless....at least to me.

I don't think you even need to give a franchise 3 shots... Give the filmmakers three chances maybe... Lol.

[plastroncafe]

No. There isn't a war on negativity.

There should be a war on s#itposting.
The two are not the same thing.

[DisKosh]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

"Feminism starting to invade"? What's that even supposed to mean. There is a "no girls allowed" sign? Esp on everything fun. Why. In my perspective, the whole concept of redoing things like Ghostbusters isn't dumb because it was women put into the roles... its dumb because women can't get cool/fun original films like that in the first place. Films that aren't a "chick flick," and that men are going to like just as much because it's is a good, fun film, not because someone's boobs were put on display. (I did like the variety between the women, in terms of personalities, in that Ghostbusters.)

I haven't seen anything Ghostbusters related so I can't comment on that but yes, I also hate the way it's rare to see an action/sci-fi/fantasy film about women in which they're not sexualised in anyway. Women are people and I'm glad we're starting to see that. Hopefully in future it won't be a big deal to see a film with a female main character for all audiences.

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Its sad that folks liked OOTS just because Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome were (sort of) in it... and can't see it for how horribly written it was on a whole.

You see, I wasn't particularly excited about the elements of the 80's cartoon (aside from Stockman) but I still enjoyed it. It's not a masterpiece but it's fun and there were some scenes I genuinely liked e.g. the scene where Mikey goes to the Halloween parade and that scene later where some a$$hole calls them monsters.
The themes they touched on didn't get as much development as I would have liked but it did give a glimpse of what I want to see from a turtles movie.

Also, Mikey is adorable and I find Raph kind of hot. Does that make it good? Hell no! But the movie makes me a little nostalgic and happy and sometimes that's all I need from a movie.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by DisKosh

Hopefully in future it won't be a big deal to see a film with a female main character for all audiences.

.

It hasn't been that way since princess leia in star wars. but when the head of lucas film says 'the male audience no longer matters', or some such argument that she said in an interview a while back, you're going to undo all that progress by being combative. and forcing the issue, just to get movies out there, regardless of if the movie is any good or not doesn't help either.
then people are going to say 'female lead movies stink'..cause no one is taking the time to do it properly and naturally.


Oh, and PD Mikey was the one making boner jokes to april. i personally found that disgusting..and nothing like mikey at all.. but...that's just me ;o).

[IndigoErth]

At least Mikey pretty much cut that out in the second film. Other than the whole "Are you two like a thing?" question. To which I appreciate his brother's reactions, like they're tired of it too. lol (Figure for them that would have gone on for two more years behind the scenes... lol)

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

It hasn't been that way since princess leia in star wars.

Yeah, the whole chained up bikini prisoner Leia thing kind of ruins by ability to ever see it that way.

[DisKosh]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

It hasn't been that way since princess leia in star wars.

The film focuses more on Luke than her, now that's not really a problem, actually the fact that many action/sci-fi films focus on the male character isn't a big deal when you look at each movie individually. However, films that treat female leads in the same way are few and far between.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Oh, and PD Mikey was the one making boner jokes to april. i personally found that disgusting..and nothing like mikey at all.. but...that's just me ;o).

Yeah, I found that creepy, especially in the first one. He's creepy and I'm like 'Nooo! You're meant to be cute and innocent!'

When I said I liked some of his scenes, they were not what I was referring to.

[Coola Yagami]

The thing is, the BayTMNT films were horrible from the get-go, the direction, the design, the bizzare changes, just the idea that originally the Turtles were going to be aliens and Shredder was going to be a random white dude in a bladed transformer iron man suit. Just no.

Yet many people ate it up, I assume blinded by their own nostalgia or just desperately happy to have some sort of new TMNT film on screen, even if it's probably the worst possible way you could have gone with the concept. I honestly don't understand the blind devotion. It's like you're at some TMNT club and there's a bouncer going around taking away anyone's official TMNT fan club card if you don't say you love the BayTMNT films. Just because the movie is new and shiny and is (was) in theaters now as opposed to back in the Vanilla Ice 90's, admitting that it sucks doesn't all of a sudden turn you into a traitor to the fanbase. It's like fans happily embracing Fant4Stic just for the simple fact that Doctor Doom is back in another live action movie regardless of how crappy the actual movie was. And then people saying they're not true Marvel fans for hating the movie.

Out of the Shadows did NOT capture the spirit of the old cartoon. You can't just cram characters and say it's just like the old cartoon. You might as well say the first movie captured the spirit of Mirage because Karai was in it. I think the movie bombed because it just wasn't good, and the people that remember the cartoon fondly and don't keep up with anyone TMNT related went to see the movie hoping to remember the good old days, but then realized the movie did it all wrong.

I'd say Bebop and Rocksteady were pretty spot on, but we were still stuck with a messed up Krang, lame Shredder, Megan Fox O'Neil, Bay Turtles and NotCasey. The Turtles didn't even fight Bebop and Rocksteady all that much other than being slammed around and dodging the cannon shots and the whole ordeal with the waterfall. Then they get defeated by the lamest version of Casey Jones ever??? Leo does more martial arts in his practice poses in the lair than any time in actual battle. No thanks. Glad there won't be a part 3.

[Cure]

Uuuuuugh. Can this not become ANOTHER thread to bash those movies? Jesus.

[DisKosh]

Okay, people don't like them. That's fine, you're all entitled to your opinions but just because we enjoy them doesn't mean we're blinded by nostalgia, in fact, outside of the theme tune, I don't actually remember watching it as a kid.

[ProactiveMan]

War on negativity?!... are we looking at the same internet? If anything I see a celebration of negativity; an entire economy built around negativity. Look at YouTube - every other video features someone ripping something to shreds for the amusement of others, and with any luck, fat stack of Google dollars.

Old media is the same; just a bunch of psychopaths having one way conversations, and either shouting or laughing derisively at people for the edification of their rage-addicted patrons.

If you're noticing a backlash against negativity, it may be from people who have had a gut-full of it. There is so much negativity around, that your contribution may be the straw that broke the camel's back. It's OK to dislike things, but once you've made that clear it's time to ask yourself if you have anything else to contribute to the conversation. If you're just reaffirming your dislike, then maybe find something more constructive to do.

Something also worth considering is that when people appear outwardly positive, and perhaps overly positive, they may be keeping their more negative opinions to themselves for various reasons. Maybe they don't think they're worth adding to the conversation, or maybe they don't want to throw a wet blanket over other people's fun. Maybe they detest the things you like, but they're too polite to bring it up.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

there are more than enough people like him to replace him. it really helps keep the peace when you get called a hypocrite, for example ;o)








yep. or the people that feel misguided in supporting something, because they think it's for the good of the franchise.
andthen take it as a personal insult if you dare to dislike it, even in an intelligent way.

Yeah, I mean I can't say everytime i've written that i don't like something that its been super well thought out but two things I try not to do is just hate for the sake of hating it and attacking someone else for their love of it unless provoked. Haha I do sometimes however joke about it with the folks who constantly just post "but I love it! Its so amazing!" without saying why... If I have to list off reasons why something is bad for it to matter, same applies for liking it...

[Prowler]

I didn't like the Bay Turtle stuff at all. But I never talk about it. What I'd say about them millions of people have said it already. No point beating a dead over. Besides, I'd rather pretend those movies never even existed in the first place.