Splinter as a rat or as Hamato Yoshi?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Well, that certainly adds a whole new level of irony to my TMNT concept...I'm not sure if it was accidental or not, but actually could be a good thing to address within a TMNT storyline, with how much more humiliating the mutation would be for Yoshi.

Lol, I'd say it's best left forgotten.

I'm sure it was coincidental and Wise/Wolf didn't even think about it.

It is funny to think about the OT having Splinter and Yoshi being two different characters. They coulda just had him incarcerated for his attempted murder instead of killing him.

[Donnie]

I am always partial to the first film's storyline.

[Dork of 1987]

Both? I'm only familiar with Splinter's origins in the first Mirage comic and OT (so far). Both are trying to do something different, Mirage out to create over the top drama and OT to create backstory for a living character, so I've never compared or weighed the two.

[Walkabout]

I'm fine with Splinter actually being Hamato Yoshi, but I guess I'll say I prefer him being the pet rat.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I preferred rat long before I learned of the penchant of the US using rodents to dehumanize the Japanese in their WWII propaganda.

Now I really prefer it.

... I'm going to use that argument in the future.

[Shellington]

Both work well.

I prefer the rat origin myself, I find it more endearing that Splinter would remember how kind and brave his master was and would pick that up from him, and pass it on to his Turtles.

[ticktack]

Leave to fans to wander and bring theories about Splinter during the show. That would be crazy. I had a theory that Splinter in Nick version had Yoshi's memory so that's why he says "I remember I had a daughter, Saki and I being rivals, ....".
I also suggested that Karai isn't Splinter's daughter or she isn't Miwa,
> she can join the turtles (for variety) without being Miwa or
> being Miwa but still has her aims and for-wathever-reason stay with shredder, maybe just for breaking the expectations.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Who taught rat-Splinter reading?

Splinter starting as a rat picks up a book or comic when naming the turtles...

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, as I also mentioned, he had to be able to teach the Turtles how to read and write. Get Donnie started on math somewhere. And all that other human stuff/ways/education they were raised with. Not even just tv could do it, because what would a rat care about having a tv, let alone know how to set that up.

(Although the thought of Turtle tots also growing up with the likes of Sesame Street is adorable. Not to mention it could look to them like mutant-seeming animal characters, such as Big Bird, depicted able to freely exist among humans.)


Not that I'm opposed to the rat story and respect that it was the original concept. The human version just fits better for me, and, as already mentioned and agree, just seems all the more tragic and deep.


So the score is currently 17 to 17? I swear, if it ends tied... lol But that would be fitting.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Who taught rat-Splinter reading?

Who said anyone ever did?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

I prefer Splinter as Hamato Yoshi, even only because I thought being his pet rat wasn't very streamlined. Why should Shredder care that Yoshi's pet hates him? It's inconsequential to him. Yoshi as the rat would make things more personal to Shredder.

He doesn't care...until the rat sends his Ninja Turtle sons to kill him.

Anyway, I'm fine with it either way, but if I have to choose, I prefer him to be a rat from the start. I don't like the mutagen turning humans into animals, and I like the Splinter who misses his beloved master more than the Splinter that misses being human.

Also, a pet rat mastering ninjutsu and the mutagen "knowing" which animal to turn you into are both equally absurd, so one doesn't really make more "sense" than the other. But, I do give the 4kids show credit for bringing in the Ancient One as the one who really trained Splinter, to cover that loose end.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm pleasently surprised at how many people like Splinter originally being a rat. Based off what Id heard from many tmnt fans before, I expected the poll to be heavily in favour of Splinter as a human.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I will concede, the rat-turned mutant splinter in these worlds is an amazing creature, far more amazing than the turtles themselves. This super-rodent puts all other martial arts masters to shame, making them all look bad by the magnitude of what he has accomplished.

Think about it; he became a complete Ninja master by simply remember some movements he copied when a normal rat, somehow taught himself to read, write, and speak both English and Japanese fluently, taught himself history, eastern philosophy, and art to the level of having a college degree, crafted or was able to steal Ninja weapons of fine enough quality for the turtles to wield, educated Donatello to the point he could self -teach himself advanced engineering, and taught himself the parenting skills to raise and feed four mutated turtles by himself.

Oh, and let's not forget this is a splinter who, based solely on what we see in mirage and the movies, is an expert level ninja master, who may have trained rigorously in the martial arts, but actually fought few, if any, actual opponents during the years he raised the turtles in solitude. I wouldn't be surprised if the TMNT probably have more actual fights under their belts than their master by the end of the first few months of their careers. Heck, from the first movie it could be inferred that the 'fight' with the Shredder on the rooftop was Splinter's first battle ever, no wonder he just stepped out of the way, and simply tossed Shredder over the side of the building!

At least the four kids series covered this hole up, by having the Ancient One to possibly give him more training, educate him, and he actually did fight in the battle nexus tournament during the years the TMNT grew up. And yes, I understand the vague reference he wasn't an ordinary rat even before he mutated, but that does not account for the full-fledged education of a season martial arts master and sensei, just from mimicking Hamato Yoshi's moves from a cage. I'm not bashing or criticizing the rat origin, just taking note of how amazing Splinter is in the universes where he isn't Hamato Yoshi in some form, or has the Ancient one and Ninja tribunal around to teach him to be one of the greatest martial artists in the world.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Well, that certainly adds a whole new level of irony to my TMNT concept...I'm not sure if it was accidental or not, but actually could be a good thing to address within a TMNT storyline, with how much more humiliating the mutation would be for Yoshi.

I can see Shredder saying 'now you'll become the rat you really are' as he mutates him.

Gotta love ol OT Shredder, just dumping random ooze on Yoshi not knowing what it is or what it does but hoping it would kill him.

[pferreira]

I only chose Hamato Yoshi as turning into the rat because it gave him a character goal for the Fred Wolf series. A shame then by Splinter No More they got rid of that. But I think it gives Ninja Turtles an interesting goal to push towards.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Who said anyone ever did?

He named the turtles from a Renaissance art book.

[John Pannozzi]

I think I like him being a rat.

As silly as it is to say, pre-mutation Splinter is quite cute. And I tend to agree with Andrew Modeen that the way Mutagen worked in the OT was ill-conceived.

[Chris]

If I had to chose I'd probably go with his original origin account a rat but U think both work and open up interesting story opportunities so I'm good with whichever works best for each incarnation.

[Logan]

Rat. I just have qualms with him mimicking martial arts in pre-mutated form. I'd prefer that part be scrubbed from the origin or at least retconned in some way.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by John Pannozzi

And I tend to agree with Andrew Modeen that the way Mutagen worked in the OT was ill-conceived.

But it was the way of mutating him, Bebop and Rocksteady like that.