The "Rocky" thread

[Andrew NDB]

What are your best memories from the movies? How would you rate them now?

It's funny, I did my big rewatchathon a couple weeks ago in prep for Creed II, of which my daughter saw part 1 (Rocky 1, not Creed 1) with us. She loved it. So now one a day, give or take, the days that I've had her since, we've been trudging through them together (for me, again) one by one.

My 11 year old daughter's perspective:

* Rocky 3 is the best one, because she really wanted to see Clubber getting smashed to ribbons. Because she believes he killed Mickey.

* Drago is super scary. And now she knows what steroids are.

* Tommy Gunn is the best Rocky villain/opponent over Drago or Lang or Apollo because he got between Rocky and his son. I had to respect this opinion and it gives new perspective into Rocky V.

* She loved all of the training montages. But she says the training montage in "Rocky Balboa" is hands down the best because of the dog, "Punchy."

[Leo656]

WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?!?!

Jesus, do I love Rocky movies. If they're on, we watch. House rule.

I could never rate them, although some are obviously far "better" than others. But I think each of them have moments that make them "must-watch". I'd never tell anyone to skip a Rocky flick. Although - and I'm really sorry about this - but I still haven't seen either "Creed". I forget what happened with the first one, as to why we didn't go see it, but I keep forgetting to pick up the Blu-ray. I've just been too busy to go to the movies recently, so I missed the second one.

I think the first one is probably the best "movie", as in, a person who doesn't care about Rocky or boxing can probably still enjoy the story. And unlike all the sequels it has no epic backstory to rely on or be familiar with; less "baggage" and more straightforward. The whole thing carries so many universal themes, that whenever a person tells me "I hate Rocky", it generally signals to me that I have nothing to ever discuss with that person. What's not to like?

Full disclosure, Rocky III was the first one I ever watched, because of the scene with Hulk Hogan. It's obviously a sentimental favorite, and it has a good message, but it's ultimately kinda weak in spots, particularly the fact that Rocky beat Clubber Lang so thoroughly in the final bout, it made the earlier one seem like a total fluke, even knowing that Rocky was all messed up beforehand. The whole Rise/Fall/Rise theme is a consistent one with Rocky, but the final fight didn't feel thoroughly satisfying, to me. I like to see my heroes struggle a bit more before finally "hulking up". The whole movie was that struggle, granted, but it really felt like Clubber got nothing in on him the second time. I'unno.

This series is one in which I can fully admit to and agree with much of the criticism, but still enjoy the films. Like yeah, Rocky IV is more of an extended music video than a "movie", but those montage scenes are THE BEST. And I, personally, will take "No Easy Way Out" over "Eye of the Tiger", every day. And Rocky V was a "downer", and Sly's son couldn't act, and the whole movie's really uncomfortable to watch, BUT, it was a necessary part of the story all the same. And that street fight with Tommy Gunn was quite satisfying.

One of the greatest and most satisfying happenings of my life, was the universal praise for "Rocky Balboa". When that film was announced, NOBODY I knew except me was excited for it. "Isn't he like 60? Who's he gonna fight this time?" and so on. Then the movie came out, it was amazing, and all of those same people did a complete 180. It was glorious. I feel like it has perhaps the strongest moral of any Rocky movie since the first, as well. I mean, at heart, the entire series has been about doing what you're driven to do, f*ck what other people say, etc., and I feel like it really tied the saga together nicely. A bit sad and poignant, but ultimately triumphant.

Favorite moments? Oh, Jesus. I can't. I mean, they exist, obviously. But which to select? SO many. Too many. Rocky's "AT LEAST YOU HAD A PRIME!" tirade against Mick. Rocky and Apollo in the hospital; "Did you give me your best...?" "...........Yeah." The brawl with Thunderlips. Mickey's death, and Rocky's anguished wail of "WE STILL GOT MORE TO DO!" I gotta stop, man; I'll be here all f*cking day.

I'll say this: At the risk of once again being called an "arrogant prick" or whatever, the Rocky series really is a good barometer for whether or not I can get along with someone. I know people who just plain can't stand Rocky, or never watched any of them, and generally they end up being a tough person to deal with. Not BECAUSE of that, obviously, it's just a sign. The reason I'm most commonly given is, "I hate boxing", but I don't get that. I generally hate boxing, myself, but I f*cking love Rocky. I feel like the story could just as easily be about a race car driver or a baseball player and hit all the same notes, really; but it's the fact that satisfaction is delivered via repeated punches to the face that sets it apart. But dismissing it as a series of "boxing movies" does them a huge disservice.

Great series, man. I feel like this is the thing you and I have most in common.

[Prowler]

I've only seen the very first Rocky movie so far. I found it to be a good movie. I definitely enjoyed it. Will someday watch the other Rocky films, but some people have told me that most of hem are not so good except IV which is supposed to be the best one, so I guess that's why I lost some motivation to watch the rest.But ofc, I can't know that until I watch them myself, so I probably shouldn't listen to them, then.

I think Rocky is the type of character and movie series that most people can relate to somewhat, since the protagonist is an underdog type of character and thus more easily relatable than those perfect heroes who seem superior to nearly everyone they face.

[Leo656]

Those people who told you that are completely full of sh*t. If anything, most people consider Part IV to be near the bottom of the pile, although it's certainly better than its reputation. On the whole, though, it's more like "They're all pretty good, but there's maybe two that are less good, and one that's definitely less than the others, but might not be terrible depending on who you ask." That's Part V, by the way, which I maintain is at least a decent "almost-ending" of the saga, but many people argue is completely worthless. I think those people are small-minded, but it's definitely the popular opinion.

Maybe this is another one of those regional things. Between their opinions on wrestling, gaming consoles, and Rocky movies, you've got me thinking that most people in Portugal aren't as sharp as you are.

You can get the entire series on disc for like $20, brother. You'll never have a better weekend in your life, unless it somehow starts raining hookers.

[cammy85]

Rocky V was definitely a weak point; but by that time, Rocky had sustained severe brain damage and wasn't the same throughout that movie. Sure, he was able to train Tommy and even have the street fight; but that was pretty dangerous. To make things worse, Rocky was just fine in Rocky Balboa as well as able to give his son the speech about the importance of being able to take life's hits. Isn't brain damage supposed to be permanent?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Those people who told you that are completely full of sh*t. If anything, most people consider Part IV to be near the bottom of the pile, although it's certainly better than its reputation. On the whole, though, it's more like "They're all pretty good, but there's maybe two that are less good, and one that's definitely less than the others, but might not be terrible depending on who you ask." That's Part V, by the way, which I maintain is at least a decent "almost-ending" of the saga, but many people argue is completely worthless. I think those people are small-minded, but it's definitely the popular opinion.

Maybe this is another one of those regional things. Between their opinions on wrestling, gaming consoles, and Rocky movies, you've got me thinking that most people in Portugal aren't as sharp as you are.

You can get the entire series on disc for like $20, brother. You'll never have a better weekend in your life, unless it somehow starts raining hookers.

Actually I haven't asked Portuguese people about Rocky. But other European friends of mine from various places such as Finland and Poland. Could just have been their particular opinions. But feel free to think Europeans are just weird, then

I'll get on to other Rocky movies one day, but I'm a bit lazy when it comes to cinema for some reason. I oughta fix this bad habit of mine.

IV is the one with Hogan, isn't it? I'm gonna guess it's your favourite thing about the movie

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by cammy85

Rocky V was definitely a weak point; but by that time, Rocky had sustained severe brain damage and wasn't the same throughout that movie. Sure, he was able to train Tommy and even have the street fight; but that was pretty dangerous. To make things worse, Rocky was just fine in Rocky Balboa as well as able to give his son the speech about the importance of being able to take life's hits. Isn't brain damage supposed to be permanent?

Y e e a a h, I kinda have to laugh about how badly "Rocky Balboa" glossed over all of that. I mean, they DID try and refuse to license him, but... I'unno. Definitely a flaw. But, I'd argue, no more of a flaw than, "So HOW exactly did all those pull-ups, sled-pulling, one-armed push-ups, etc., help train Rocky to survive about 9 million cannon-blasts to the goddamn FACE from Ivan Drago?!" F*ck brain damage, he'd legit be a puddle of Jell-O by Round 3. At some point, even I have to shrug and say something is "Just a movie."

Originally Posted by Prowler

Actually I haven't asked Portuguese people about Rocky. But other European friends of mine from various places such as Finland and Poland. Could just have been their particular opinions. But feel free to think Europeans are just weird, then

Oh, I do.

I also have some Polish people in my family, as does my wife. Don't ask those people anything, they're ridiculous. Every single stereotype, completely true. You'd get a more educated opinion from a houseplant, regardless of topic.

Rocky III is the one with Hogan, which is the sole reason I rented it as a kid (and thus, fell in love with the series). People's opinion on that scene are pretty much in line with their opinion of Hogan in general: It's either a lot of fun, or a bit of pointless nonsense that stops the movie dead for 15 minutes.

For my money, it's at least ONE of the best parts of III. Right up there with Mr. T's Oscar-worthy delivery of, "HEY woman!" and "DON'T TURN YO' BACK ON ME, SUCKA!"

...Both of which I use in real-life conversations far more often than you'd think.

[Autbot_Benz]

Rocky Movies are just Awesome. Same goes for the Creed Movies. Heartfelt gets your blood pumping and lots of epic training montages

[Leo656]

Yeah man. I love/hate how they usually do a marathon around Christmas time. Because then I get all pumped up to go running in the snow, then remember 'F*ck that, it's f*cking cold outside."

[Andrew NDB]

About the brain damage, Stallone has commented about that before. Basically Rocky had a major concussion after Rocky IV, it was going to get better with time, but he never got a 2nd opinion.

[Leo656]

Interesting.

I'd pull the ol', "If the filmmaker has to explain to the viewer what they were going for then the movie is terrible and anyone who likes it is an imbecile" card out on that. BUT. I'm not a petty sh*thead, and am more than willing to meet the creator(s) halfway on something. Thus, I don't make ridiculous blanket statements like that. I'll just nod and say, "Well, I guess that makes sense."

I think I do remember reading about that back when "Rocky Balboa" was coming out, but that was a surprisingly long time ago so I guess I just forgot.

[Autbot_Benz]

Gotta say speaking of Rocky that ending for his character in Creed 2 was perfection. Got a tad misty eyed.

[turtle1237]

Loved all the Rocky movies. Even the new Creed movies.

Rocky 5 is underrated. Yeah Tommy Gun may not be the trash talker that Clubber Lane was or the Superhuman God that Ivan Drago was. But his story is pretty much betraying Rocky in a sense. I view it like the Mike Tyson story were Don King took Tyson from his original corner, and in doing so lead to Tyson's downfall to Douglas in Japan. Money, less training. Girls ete.

Here Rocky took Gun in a street fight. And later restore his relationships with his family. Its not the "Best" Rocky movie, but its not as bad as people make it out to be.

[Leo656]

My personal theory is that most people were just really uncomfortable with the whole thing. Rocky going broke, his kid smoking cigarettes and yelling at him... I've heard many people say, "I don't like seeing Rocky down and out, I wanna see him win!" Over the course of the films, he kind of transitions from "down-and-out pug who gets a lucky break" into some kind of super-hero - which is one of the "problems" with the later ones - but it's true, you get so used to him being indestructible you find it hard to believe that the guy who KO'ed Ivan Drago got knocked out by the goddamn IRS.

That's real life, though. But that ain't why people buy movie tickets.

I mean point of fact, Rocky was originally scripted to die in that alley. They changed the ending after it leaked out and someone smartened Sly up to the fact that, while the entire premise of Part V was gonna go down bitter for many people, they would absolutely NOT tolerate Rocky getting beat to death in a scummy back-alley brawl with some nobody. I can see why he wanted it to end that way, kinda, but I also agree that after opening night, not one person would have gone to see it again, had they ran with it.

I like a lot of movies; some of them are really good, but would be what you might call "a downer". I also love talking to people about movies, so I have a lot of movie conversations. And one thing I've learned is that even the best movie will be disregarded as "trash" if it makes too many people uncomfortable.

That's where I think the "Rocky V is terrible" sentiment comes from. It's not terrible at all, but it's by far the least "feel-good" film in the series, and people don't wanna watch Rocky to feel insecure about their own financial situation, or be reminded about their own family problems, or whatever. They forgot there even was a "story" halfway through Rocky III; they just wanna watch him work out and punch guys twice his size. Part V tried to make the audience feel something a little more complicated, and movie fans don't really wanna deal with anything that deep.

Ironically, I might have actually seen Rocky V the most out of all of them, because it's historically come on basic cable a LOT. It's weird, like, a lot of channels will run a marathon of I-IV, or otherwise run Part V by itself. It's rare you get all five in a row. But they play V as a stand-alone quite often, so I've probably seen it more than the others even though it's the one I like least.

[XERO]

I love how his kid grew from a 9-10 year old to a teenager between Rocky IV-V. Hell of a continuity transgression.

I mean, from what I gather, they both take place in the same time frame, am I correct?

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by Leo656

My personal theory is that most people were just really uncomfortable with the whole thing. Rocky going broke, his kid smoking cigarettes and yelling at him... I've heard many people say, "I don't like seeing Rocky down and out, I wanna see him win!" Over the course of the films, he kind of transitions from "down-and-out pug who gets a lucky break" into some kind of super-hero - which is one of the "problems" with the later ones - but it's true, you get so used to him being indestructible you find it hard to believe that the guy who KO'ed Ivan Drago got knocked out by the goddamn IRS.

That's real life, though. But that ain't why people buy movie tickets.

I mean point of fact, Rocky was originally scripted to die in that alley. They changed the ending after it leaked out and someone smartened Sly up to the fact that, while the entire premise of Part V was gonna go down bitter for many people, they would absolutely NOT tolerate Rocky getting beat to death in a scummy back-alley brawl with some nobody. I can see why he wanted it to end that way, kinda, but I also agree that after opening night, not one person would have gone to see it again, had they ran with it.

I like a lot of movies; some of them are really good, but would be what you might call "a downer". I also love talking to people about movies, so I have a lot of movie conversations. And one thing I've learned is that even the best movie will be disregarded as "trash" if it makes too many people uncomfortable.

That's where I think the "Rocky V is terrible" sentiment comes from. It's not terrible at all, but it's by far the least "feel-good" film in the series, and people don't wanna watch Rocky to feel insecure about their own financial situation, or be reminded about their own family problems, or whatever. They forgot there even was a "story" halfway through Rocky III; they just wanna watch him work out and punch guys twice his size. Part V tried to make the audience feel something a little more complicated, and movie fans don't really wanna deal with anything that deep.

Ironically, I might have actually seen Rocky V the most out of all of them, because it's historically come on basic cable a LOT. It's weird, like, a lot of channels will run a marathon of I-IV, or otherwise run Part V by itself. It's rare you get all five in a row. But they play V as a stand-alone quite often, so I've probably seen it more than the others even though it's the one I like least.

But if Rocky was "real" and Sly does "borrow" a lot from boxing history, how many all time great fighters end up broke? Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey before he open his steak house(MMM I wonder were Rocky 6 got that from) Most of em end up broke. I had no issue with Sly knocking Rocky down a peg after Rocky 4. How I view Rocky in regards to boxing history.

Rocky 1
Underdog puts up a good fight in a losing effort. Happens a lot in boxing. Of course every one points out Chuck Wepner droping Ali.

Rocky II, the underdog wins the title. The biggest upset of winning the title in the heavyweights at that time was James Braddock beating Max Baer. Of course I would mention Tyson Douglas, but this is 1978. Tyson Douglas didn't happen yet lol.

Rocky III was more like Jack Dempsey. Wins title fame ete. And pretty much losing his edge. In life, Dempsey finally loses the title to Gene Tunney, trains and "Almost" regains the title vs Tunney in the long count fight in 1927. Dempsey pretty much made fame get to his head.

Rocky IV, Russia vs America, 1930's America vs Nazi Germany. Its Louis vs Schmeling all over again. Louis was 1 win and 1 lost vs Schmeling. The rematch had less drama than Rocky Drago with a 1 round ko.

Rocky 5, going broke, family issues ete. Pretty much retirement for most boxers.

[XERO]

Originally Posted by turtle1237

Most of em end up broke.

Mayweather says hi.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by XERO

Mayweather says hi.

I guess today fighters know how to manage there money better, BUT that was not always the case. Beu Jack started out as a shoe shiner, made LOTS of money for that time(the 1930's) Goes though it all, and ends his days as a shoe shiner.

The fighters today are more education than the fighters of yesterday. Even John L Sullivan who made the most money for a fighter of his time went broke in retirement.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by XERO

I love how his kid grew from a 9-10 year old to a teenager between Rocky IV-V. Hell of a continuity transgression.

I mean, from what I gather, they both take place in the same time frame, am I correct?

That is, indeed, the most egregious continuity error in the entire series.

Aside from Apollo cheating on his wife and having a bastard because f*ck YOU no he didn't god dammit!

But yeah, they f*cked that whole part up. Any "official" explanations for Rocky Jr's growth spurt are... specious, at best.

Originally Posted by turtle1237

But if Rocky was "real" and Sly does "borrow" a lot from boxing history, how many all time great fighters end up broke? J.

I totally hear ya. But another thing I've learned about people is, if you wanna convince them a movie has merit, DON'T try and talk about "Well, that's what would happen in Real Life." They HATE that. Even movies based entirely on Real Life, like the recent Queen flick, have to be turned inside-out and made into a fantasy with very little resemblance to Real Life because people want Fantasy, NOT Reality.

I mean, I personally am a big fan of "keepin' it real", but I'm not most people. Most people want "fantasy" and "escapism" in their movies. Anything that gets "too real" is an automatic loser.

I don't like it, but that's generally how people are.

[XERO]

Originally Posted by Leo656

That is, indeed, the most egregious continuity error in the entire series.

Aside from Apollo cheating on his wife and having a bastard because f*ck YOU no he didn't god dammit!

But yeah, they f*cked that whole part up. Any "official" explanations for Rocky Jr's growth spurt are... specious, at best.

Maybe he took the same steroids Drago did.

As for Apollo cheating on his wife, I have this theory on that's probably why he chose to keep fighting Drago before he got mauled to death. Kind of like boxing seppuku, just without the disembowelment.

I mean, yeah, it was insipid as f*ck, but I can understand why they did it if they wanted to make Creed (even then, that would be decades of foreshadowing). I still think there were plenty of ways to make the spin-off without that route, but I dunno if it would have the same emotional baggage.