So what did we take away from this series?

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?

as much as i try to love the 4kids show, something about it just rubs me the wrong way.
i'm pretty sure it's that i'm not crazy about the voice actors, as well as wishing that if they were going to do Mirage stories that they'd follow it closer to the comic.

the Nick series grew on me over time. at first i found some things about it very irritating.
but they do get very creative with their storylines once in a while. and the show's sense of humor is pretty good a lot of the time!

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Reminded me of another plus, I like that being 3D has given his swords a little of the katana-like curve to them, vs the art style cutting corners and making them straight as they have often been depicted. I hope that (and further making them look legit) carries over into the future.

YEP! gotta LOVE them 3d blade!!!

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I donno, might be some conflict of interest

Spoiler:

Kappa, now THAT is funny!!!!!!

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by myconius

as much as i try to love the 4kids show, something about it just rubs me the wrong way.
i'm pretty sure it's that i'm not crazy about the voice actors, as well as wishing that if they were going to do Mirage stories that they'd follow it closer to the comic. :

The voice actors for 4kids were fine. And the stories they did were mostly well done outside of City at War.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I like that being 3D has given his swords a little of the katana-like curve to them, vs the art style cutting corners and making them straight as they have often been depicted.

Originally Posted by myconius

YEP! gotta LOVE them 3d blade!!!

Completely agree, and the swords are appropriately of different lengths. Something I'm a huge fan of.

Originally Posted by myconius

Kappa, now THAT is funny!!!!!!

Thanks

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The voice actors for 4kids were fine.

vocally they sounded great. but for me it just sounded like the performances lacked passion.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

And the stories they did were mostly well done outside of City at War.

again, just personal preference. i didn't care for the liberties taken with the stories. with such excellent page lay outs from the comics, when i didn't see any of the same visual compositions used from page to screen like they did for cartoon adaptions like Dark Knight Returns, i found it extremely disappointing.
i see the Nick series just using the Mirage classics for little nods and easter eggs here and there. but their stories for me really feel like their own.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Completely agree, and the swords are appropriately of different lengths. Something I'm a huge fan of.

yeah, the visual style and little details they throw in really are truly amazing.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Thanks

you're welcome!

[Spike Spiegel]

So what did we take away from this series?

That when a company buys a huge franchise, they will try to make money off of it as fast as they can by putting their own spin on it, even it it's not up to the level of previous entries.

I tried to watch the 2012 series but for reasons others have mentioned, I could never get into it. Can't stand creepy incel Donatello, especially since he was always my favorite Turtle.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

I tried to watch the 2012 series but for reasons others have mentioned, I could never get into it. Can't stand creepy incel Donatello, especially since he was always my favorite Turtle.

This is barely in the series, and its played for laughs.

[ABrown]

I haven't taken away a thing from this series. Everything that it has given, I've given right back.

[CyberCubed]

I've taken all of it. Its a great show. I want to marathon it from the start, but I think I'll wait till Season 5 is done.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I've taken all of it. Its a great show. I want to marathon it from the start, but I think I'll wait till Season 5 is done.

one thing i will give the show is there are a good selection of episodes (like Tales of the Yokai) that have a lot of re-watch value.

the episode (i can't offhand remember the title) that homaged Friday the 13th, i re-watched dozens of times!
that visual layout of Leo in the background on his knees defeated, while his katanas were both planted in the foreground with his mask blowing in the wind like a flag was beautiful!

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?

Yes. Nick Leo is vulnerable, awkward, unsure, dorky and relatable. And he hangs out with everyone and has hobbies other than Ninjitsu.

I remeber in Leo's bio on the old Mirage site, his answer to "hobbies" was that he guessed he liked candles. ****ing CANDLES dude...

So yeah, 4kids Leo is mostly boring and talks about the Samurai code of honor lol. He's also a huge bitch at times. Like the time Splinter said he's better than his brothers because of his training, not his swords... so he ran away crying and almost joined the Foot.

I loved him as a kid though, he was my favorite. 4kids Leo was my Captain Ryan when I was 12.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Yes. Nick Leo is vulnerable, awkward, unsure, dorky and relatable. And he hangs out with everyone and has hobbies other than Ninjitsu.

I remeber in Leo's bio on the old Mirage site, his answer to "hobbies" was that he guessed he liked candles. ****ing CANDLES dude...

So yeah, 4kids Leo is mostly boring and talks about the Samurai code of honor lol. He's also a huge bitch at times. Like the time Splinter said he's better than his brothers because of his training, not his swords... so he ran away crying and almost joined the Foot.

I loved him as a kid though, he was my favorite. 4kids Leo was my Captain Ryan when I was 12.

Only real flaw I saw was that he was an extreme perfectionist and control freak. He hated being unsure or not in charge of what the outcome was and season 4 really highlighted that. Nick Leo seems to take losing better than 2k3.

[IndigoErth]

Poor Leo, he's prob been the slowest to obtain interests besides what he does for a living. "Okay, leader - check. What else?" *shrug* "Okay, next guy."

I love that elsewhere he's been sometimes portrayed as a bit of a bookworm and have wished 2012 would have included that.

Though I do like they made him some lovable little dork with his cartoon hero. That's probably one of the things that helped hook me on the show and bring me back to TMNT. Seeing this young Leo sitting there wide eyed staring at this cartoon and realizing my childhood hero has become me from long ago watching his first cartoon. lol


Candles? *sigh* I mean, candles are cool and all, but they could at least come up with more reason for it.

Since he's so big on his blades, how about metalsmithing/bladesmith? After all, 2003 Leo did make himself a new sword at the farm house and obviously that would require prior knowledge and skill.

In the future (*throws hints at future Turtle writers/creators*), I could see him picking up some calming artistic hobby, like Japanese style calligraphy, maybe water color. Wood carving/whittling perhaps (includes carving blade handles so it's also a useful skill). Keeping a fish tank with a 'fancy' type goldfish or a betta. It's not really that hard to come up with things the guy might get into.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Poor Leo, he's prob been the slowest to obtain interests besides what he does for a living. "Okay, leader - check. What else?" *shrug* "Okay, next guy."

I love that elsewhere he's been sometimes portrayed as a bit of a bookworm and have wished 2012 would have included that.

Though I do like they made him some lovable little dork with his cartoon hero. That's probably one of the things that helped hook me on the show and bring me back to TMNT. Seeing this young Leo sitting there wide eyed staring at this cartoon and realizing my childhood hero has become me from long ago watching his first cartoon. lol


Candles? *sigh* I mean, candles are cool and all, but they could at least come up with more reason for it.

Since he's so big on his blades, how about metalsmithing/bladesmith? After all, 2003 Leo did make himself a new sword at the farm house and obviously that would require prior knowledge and skill.

In the future (*throws hints at future Turtle writers/creators*), I could see him picking up some calming artistic hobby, like Japanese style calligraphy, maybe water color. Wood carving/whittling perhaps (includes carving blade handles so it's also a useful skill). Keeping a fish tank with a 'fancy' type goldfish or a betta. It's not really that hard to come up with things the guy might get into.

i imagine the IDW comic Leo probably clipped the Banzai tree that's in his bedroom?
yeah i can see him doing some sort of Japanese ink wash maybe?

Spoiler:

but yeah, if he crafted his own blade then he must've have prior experience.

blacksmithing definitely counts as an activity if not hobby.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

So yeah, 4kids Leo is mostly boring and talks about the Samurai code of honor lol. He's also a huge bitch at times. Like the time Splinter said he's better than his brothers because of his training, not his swords... so he ran away crying and almost joined the Foot.

I loved him as a kid though, he was my favorite. 4kids Leo was my Captain Ryan when I was 12.

Yeah he was sort of a bitch and that "honor" thing sort of annoyed me, I mean they are ninjas dirty tactics, are their beard and butter however I do want to see an incarnation where Leo tries to act more like a Bushido than a ninja and see how that effects his relationship with Splinter. But on topic if there is one thing I can say about the Nick Turtles is that their Leo is my favorite animated incarnation so far hell maybe my favorite in the whole franchise.

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Candles? *sigh* I mean, candles are cool and all, but they could at least come up with more reason for it.

Since he's so big on his blades, how about metalsmithing/bladesmith? After all, 2003 Leo did make himself a new sword at the farm house and obviously that would require prior knowledge and skill.

In the future (*throws hints at future Turtle writers/creators*), I could see him picking up some calming artistic hobby, like Japanese style calligraphy, maybe water color. Wood carving/whittling perhaps (includes carving blade handles so it's also a useful skill). Keeping a fish tank with a 'fancy' type goldfish or a betta. It's not really that hard to come up with things the guy might get into.

Yeah I do see him interested in some traditional Japanese activity, hopefully it isn't whaling or beetle fighting.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by myconius

i imagine the IDW comic Leo probably clipped the Banzai tree that's in his bedroom?
yeah i can see him doing some sort of Japanese ink wash maybe?

Bonsai didn't even cross my mind, but surely that. Japanese ink wash, perfect.

As much as he tends to treat his skills and swordsmanship like an art form, plus the meditation and spirituality, he's gotta have a little bit of an artistic soul in there somewhere.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Yeah I do see him interested in some traditional Japanese activity, hopefully it isn't whaling or beetle fighting.

Nah...

[myconius]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Bonsai didn't even cross my mind, but surely that. Japanese ink wash, perfect.

As much as he tends to treat his skills and swordsmanship like an art form, plus the meditation and spirituality, he's gotta have a little bit of an artistic soul in there somewhere.

yeah Leo seems like the type to totally be into spirituality.
and i think he'd definitely take on relaxing hobbies like art that also require study, practice and discipline.
ink wash definitely fits that bill.

the way i see Leo, he see's his hobbies as skills to be mastered. and takes them just as seriously.

i can definitely even imagine some craftsman's pride in sword-making, as we saw with Hatori Hanzo in Kill Bill vol.1.

i do like the bookworm angle that we've sometimes seen a bit of in Mirage.

the Nick series has traded the books for comics, which is actually pretty cool.
but didn't they show Leo having a collection of comics in Tmnt2 secret of the ooze when April came home and was picking up after the turtles?

[Coola Yagami]

So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place. I mean, I doubt fans will be demanding the psychic April plot line be brought back in future incarnations.

I think the only cool visual worth adapting is the rain of Mutagen cannisters if they decide to go the 'lots of mutants route'.

And I also hope the next series doesn't run through the silent partner/return to new york and triceraton/Fugitoid arc a third time.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place.

I think the only cool visual worth adapting is the rain of Mutagen cannisters if they decide to go the 'lots of mutants route'.

And I also hope the next series doesn't run through the silent partner/return to new york and triceraton/Fugitoid arc a third time.

I don't mind those stories but I seen them twice in both recent incarnations so skipping over them is fine by me in the next. I see everyone says unique designs but this is the first cartoon version to do use it. The first one with the Turtles not being carbon copies with different weapons or mask is the 1990 film. Tigerclaw has the chance of making a resurgence within the franchise, but the others most likely not. Xever and Bradford if they show up again most likely won't be mutated or used very heavily.

This is a spoiler if you have not seen all of season 4 do not look you have been warned.

Spoiler:

Props to being the only version to kill off Splinter for good (granted they did way too many fake outs making it lose impact) I don't think a story will revisit this again as Nick has mined this plot point heavily.

I would like for them to not make a young version of April and Casey again, they didn't do much with it to really warrant the change IDW (albeit a lot less lately) show April and Casey do have a life outside the TMNT. I think the reason was to have them more involved in the Turtles adventures but high schoolers don't have that kind of free time. Also they don't need to be glued to the Turtles if they were interesting enough we could've had episodes dedicated solely to them and at times we almost did. But most of us find Casey too obnoxious and April too much of a Mary Sue for us to want to sit through that.

All in all it doesn't have a lot of stuff that doesn't already exist and it's original concepts are over shadowed by Mirage/FW/2K3 (to a lesser extent) content that we eat up more than it's original content. No seriously read the majority of the post here, the reused concepts are the things we get the most hyped about.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

No.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Why on earth would you make such a bizarre statement? If anything we've learned about the TMNT franchise over 25+ years, is that ANY character can come back.

Just like we never expected to see Lord Dregg, Armaggon, Muckman, the Neutrinos (in IDW), etc ever again after the original series....and then they're all come back. So by the same token, I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the Nick created mutants return for a future series. You're also not thinking of how exposed the Nick show is to kids and how they'll have nostalgia for it when they get older like we did for the original cartoon.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place. I mean, I doubt fans will be demanding the psychic April plot line be brought back in future incarnations.

Wow, as if IDW doesn't do mostly the same thing? Outside of some unique aspects like the Pantheon, the vast majority of IDW's plotlines and characters are just new takes on old stories we've seen for years.

The fact that we're about to begin another "Bishop tracks down the Turtles and other mutants story" in IDW says enough in itself.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?

I can't say for 2003 Leo, but what you wrote for Nick Leo is why I favor this one, a first for me, over other versions of him that I've had exposure to. He isn't perfect, nor does he come across as such. I like how he started off unsure, but growing over time to become a good leader and earn his brothers' respect. I like the fact that even though he's the most serious about training, Raph being the other, he does have other things he liked. He just felt more relatable.