Sonic Boom TV Series

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

Yunno, just because there have been some bad, melodramatic plots in Sonic, in forms of media mind you, the sentiment that "Sonic can't/shouldn't have a story" really irks me.

I agree.

This is how the series started, think the first Sonic game is nothing but "Sonic fights evil Dr. Robotnik!"? No, in the Japanese manual, the one that is canon, we learn that this isn't Sonic and Eggman's first meeting. This time it's serious because Eggman has now turned ALL of Sonic's friends into robots in order to search for the legendary Chaos Emeralds. Sonic is also notably shocked by this. The manual also goes into detail about the Emeralds and their connection to South Island.

That's just the first game. The second game manual even alludeds to the great Echinda tribe that Knuckles is from by mentioning a great civilization that was wiped out for abusing the Chaos Emeralds power. The third game's manual tells us that when Knuckles first sees the Death Egg he mistakes it for a dragon that is destined to destroy the world, AKA Chaos from Sonic Adventure. Do I also need to bring up that Professor Gerald Robotnik based Shadow's design on Sonic's after seeing the mural that can be seen in Hidden Palace Zone?

Sonic has been about ongoing plotlines since it's creation. Theres nothing wrong with it. Theres nothing wrong with lighthearted stories either. Sonic Riders is the funniest game in the series and I'd love it if the games would be written like that.

But nope, instead apparently everyone would rather have a story where Sonic stands arround, makes bad puns and other unfunny jokes. Where Tails is an over confident jerk and Knuckles a brainles brawler. Where Eggman is a joke and so much of a non-threat that he makes Dick Dastardly a credible villain in comparison.

It dosen't matter if you story is light or big, just make sure it's written well. The first two Adventure games, dub acting aside, did a big story very well. Even Super Mario is no stranger to big stories. Super Paper Mario, The Thousand Year Door, etc. Heck, the reason Rosalina keep reappearing in the Mario series is because of her touching, bittersweet backstory.

This is why I'm so hopeful with Sonic Boom, hopefully I'll get a story thats interesting and more importantly, fun again.

Originally Posted by Donatello19

Although I think Sonic should have somewhat of a continuous story, it shouldn't be so super serious. When they try to do that, things like Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) and Sonic 06 happen...

Alright already, we remember, Sonic 06 sucked. Let it go Indiana, let it go...

You can have a big story without it being "super serious". Sonic Adventure 2 had plenty of small humorous moments.

Amy: Your not Sonic! Who are you?!?
Eggman: I'm the one who should be asking that question!

Later...

Amy: Tails you did it! But what are you doing here on this island?
Tails: I'm the one who should be asking that question!

Also, during the most serious cutscene in the game:

Eggman: (Horrified) That mad scientist!
Amy: (Sarcastic) That should be you, right?

[LeotheLateBloomer]

See but that's the problem with Adventure 2's story; it had only some humorous moments but the story itself had a lot of plot-holes that kind of made me dislike the story a little bit. When you see the preview for the Last Story, after you finish both the Hero and Dark sides, where you see all of these saddening words with a sad piano piece playing in the back ground, I couldn't help but see the word "Pretentious" hiding cleverly in the background as an adult. I love SA2 but I personally think the story got worse as I replayed it.

[Peanut]

Lol talking seriously about the story in Sonic games.

[sdp]

My take after sometime to digest:

The re-designs are not different enough. Though this is only a tie-in to the cartoon and not really re-designs. They confirmed before the game even came out "real" sonic is still being done so with that in mind they really should've taken a more extreme approach to the designs then, hell the Sonic Riders design for Sonic was more extreme and much better, this design is too conservative. Amy's re-design is what all the other should've been. Tails is basically the same but with clothes. And Knuckles looks too much of a meathead, he should be tough but also more of a 'loner' coming from his design. At least they tried something different.

The Cartoon will probably be dumb fun like I mentioned earlier so my opinion hasn't changed, it's not for me but I bet it won't be too bad for the target audience and won't take itself too seriously like Sonic X did, and no Chaos Emeralds will be fun since Sonic X overused them, I'm sure they'll appear eventually for a story arc, even the original AOSTH of all shows had a small story arc about the Chaos emeralds.

The Game feels like a Sonic Adventure type game which can go either way, but at least it's different than what Sonic Team has been putting out for years. Hope its decent, though it'll probably be nothing groundbreaking. I'm expecting something similar to the new Pac-Man 3D game, which is not bad, it just does nothing new or too exciting but serviceable for fans.

I'm guessing this was a way for Sega to introduce a re-design to see how it goes without committing to it, and they have a way out if the show/game fails with a new traditional Sonic game and his normal design. and if it becomes a success they'll probably give this new version the focus. That's too bad, as much as you may not like the new Pac-Man re-design at least Namco had the guts to go through with it in full. I'm tired of "Modern" Sonic, he's actually been "Modern Sonic for almost twice as long as "classic" Sonic.

Originally Posted by Peanut

Lol talking seriously about the story in Sonic games.

The Sonic franchise took its story too seriously, while it was fun with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, it proved to be a bad move going forward. Nintendo who did the opposite and kept it as light as it could with Mario ended up being the better move after experimenting a little with Sunshine. And while sometimes I wish Mario games had a little more story than the princess is stolen again, I'm glad they never became the mess that Sonic did.

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by sdp

as much as you may not like the new Pac-Man re-design at least Namco had the guts to go through with it in full.

It's not the new design of Pac-Man thats the problem, it's the fact that they've changed so much of Tōru Iwatani's character and world that it has nothing to do with Pac-Man anymore.

Remember how Pac-Man was a family man? He had a wife(Ms. Pac-Man), two kids(Pac-Man Jr. and Baby Pac-Man), a dog named Chompy and a mentor(Professor Pac-Man)? Remember how Pac-Man lived in the small peaceful Pac-Vilage?

Well, now he's teenager in the futuristic city Pacoplolis. Thats still not the problem. It's just a new reimagining, like maybe we'll get to him dating Ms. Pac-Man and- oh wait, there is no Ms. Pac-Man. Also, since he's now a teenager his poor kids have been retconed out of existence. His dog Chompy has been replaced by a Gizmo knock off and Professor Pac-Man has been replaced by Sir Cumference(Admittedly, the only new character I like.). Not to mention the fact that now Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde are now no longer the main villains, no in fact now their friends with Pac-Man. Make way for Lord Betrayus, his "Butt-ler" and of course Dr. Buttocks. LOL BUTZ

Thats the problem with the new Pac-Man cartoon: it has nothing to do with Pac-Man other then "Pac-Man eats ghosts." What also makes me bitter is all these changes happend right after Pac-Man's creator retired. Way to honor and remember his legacy Namco-sorry, "Bandai-Namco".

Originally Posted by sdp

sometimes I wish Mario games had a little more story than the princess is stolen again

Thats fine, I just wish they'd come up with better cutscenes, like Super Mario Galaxy did. Or maybe change it up like in Super Mario Bros 3, where Mario and Luigi were sent off by Princess Peach to recover all the Magic Wands stolen by the Koopalings. Only after doing all that do you learn that Bowser tricked you: the Koopalings were just a distraction for you while Bowser went and kidnaped the Princess. Super Mario 3D World wasn't half bad and hey, we finally get to see Mario and Luigi doing plumbing again!

I just want more of a cutscene then:

Mario walks on screen. Toad panicly runs up to Mario and tells him the Princess has been kidnaped. Mario gives a surprised reaction and runs off screen.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by TMNT_Guy

It's not the new design of Pac-Man thats the problem, it's the fact that they've changed so much of Tōru Iwatani's character and world that it has nothing to do with Pac-Man anymore.

Remember how Pac-Man was a family man? He had a wife(Ms. Pac-Man), two kids(Pac-Man Jr. and Baby Pac-Man), a dog named Chompy and a mentor(Professor Pac-Man)? Remember how Pac-Man lived in the small peaceful Pac-Vilage?

Well, now he's teenager in the futuristic city Pacoplolis. Thats still not the problem. It's just a new reimagining, like maybe we'll get to him dating Ms. Pac-Man and- oh wait, there is no Ms. Pac-Man. Also, since he's now a teenager his poor kids have been retconed out of existence. His dog Chompy has been replaced by a Gizmo knock off and Professor Pac-Man has been replaced by Sir Cumference(Admittedly, the only new character I like.). Not to mention the fact that now Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde are now no longer the main villains, no in fact now their friends with Pac-Man. Make way for Lord Betrayus, his "Butt-ler" and of course Dr. Buttocks. LOL BUTZ

Thats the problem with the new Pac-Man cartoon: it has nothing to do with Pac-Man other then "Pac-Man eats ghosts." What also makes me bitter is all these changes happend right after Pac-Man's creator retired. Way to honor and remember his legacy Namco-sorry, "Bandai-Namco".

What? Pac-Man is just that, a yellow thing that eats dots. What you're describing is the 80s cartoon not even the creators idea, hell the new show could even be seen as a prequel to the original show. The original show is not good though it is indeed a product of its time, as is the new show, it's not great but it's on par with other cartoons at the moment and I'm sure if I were a kid in the 80s or now I would have enjoyed either Pac-Man cartoon. Hell most of those characters have nothing to do with the creator, many were made by Midway not even Namco. I'd say the new show lives up to the legacy by being as goofy as the original show and the new videogame while not great is on par with the 3D Pac-Man games from the PS1/PS2 era, only with the re-design.

Thats fine, I just wish they'd come up with better cutscenes, like Super Mario Galaxy did. Or maybe change it up like in Super Mario Bros 3, where Mario and Luigi were sent off by Princess Peach to recover all the Magic Wands stolen by the Koopalings. Only after doing all that do you learn that Bowser tricked you: the Koopalings were just a distraction for you while Bowser went and kidnaped the Princess. Super Mario 3D World wasn't half bad and hey, we finally get to see Mario and Luigi doing plumbing again!

I just want more of a cutscene then:

Mario walks on screen. Toad panicly runs up to Mario and tells him the Princess has been kidnaped. Mario gives a surprised reaction and runs off screen.

Yeah, like I said I wish Mario games had more story like they used to try in the earlier days. Miyamoto's thinking now is just that Bowser always steals the princess and that's boring. Sonic's problem with story is that it took itself too seriously, so I'd definitely want Mario to avoid that, and of course between the two choices it's better that Mario has no story than become the mess storywise that Sonic did.

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by sdp

What you're describing is the 80s cartoon

Uh, no not at all. While the cartoon was the inspiration for the arcade game Pac-Land, Pac-Land set up the universe for all Pac-Man games in the future: the Pac-Man World trilogy, Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness, Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures, etc. Pac n' Roll is notable for being a prequel to the series, showing how Ms. Pac-Man and Pac-Man met.

I've never understood why people can't remember Pac-Man's had other games after 1980.

[Peanut]

Your seemingly encyclopedic knowledge of weird "in manual" character stuff is both impressive and frightening.

The most I could say about Pac-Man beyond being a yellow ball that has an issue with ghosts comes from Pac-Man 2, where he becomes a bumbling loser who has trouble getting the mail and can't go out for groceries without somehow getting stuck on a mountain.

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Pac-Man 2, where he becomes a bumbling loser who has trouble getting the mail and can't go out for groceries without somehow getting stuck on a mountain.

Heh, it actually fits with his character in a weird way. I remember reading an article where Pac-Man's creator described him as childlike, but with a strong sense of justice.

He even gave an example: If you were to tell Pac-Man guns were evil, he would go around the world eating every one he could find - even those used by the police to stop criminals.

[Wildcat]

@ leothelatebloomer, I dont remember the reviews for SA2 but I remember everyone making a big deal over the emerald hunting and shooting levels. They weren't very fun to me either but they weren't as bad as everyone made them out to be.
...........
As for story...Sonic SHOULD have a big story. Not in every game but in general. Like mentioned before about the manuals. The chaos emeralds, robotnik, knuckles and the floating island etc. proves it can be deeper than just a cartoon character running fast. Then theres the comics which takes it even farther.

As for the redesigns I wouldnt mind if they used these as official replacements. Maybe not Knuckles cause I think hes a little too big but Sonic isnt much different. Hes really just more realistically proportioned. Like his hands and feet arnt oversized.

The thing about the designs for me, classic and modern, is I never viewed them as redesigns...I always felt it was Sonic growing up. Modern Sonic is taller and slimmer when classic was shorter and rounder. I could definitely take Sonic Boom's design as him just maturing again.

[TheBlueTurtle1]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

@ leothelatebloomer, I dont remember the reviews for SA2 but I remember everyone making a big deal over the emerald hunting and shooting levels. They weren't very fun to me either but they weren't as bad as everyone made them out to be.
...........
As for story...Sonic SHOULD have a big story. Not in every game but in general. Like mentioned before about the manuals. The chaos emeralds, robotnik, knuckles and the floating island etc. proves it can be deeper than just a cartoon character running fast. Then theres the comics which takes it even farther.

As for the redesigns I wouldnt mind if they used these as official replacements. Maybe not Knuckles cause I think hes a little too big but Sonic isnt much different. Hes really just more realistically proportioned. Like his hands and feet arnt oversized.

The thing about the designs for me, classic and modern, is I never viewed them as redesigns...I always felt it was Sonic growing up. Modern Sonic is taller and slimmer when classic was shorter and rounder. I could definitely take Sonic Boom's design as him just maturing again.

Can't beat the sonic sega megadrive era designs.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by TMNT_Guy

Remember how Pac-Man was a family man? He had a wife(Ms. Pac-Man), two kids(Pac-Man Jr. and Baby Pac-Man), a dog named Chompy and a mentor(Professor Pac-Man)? Remember how Pac-Man lived in the small peaceful Pac-Vilage?

Well, now he's teenager in the futuristic city Pacoplolis. Thats still not the problem. It's just a new reimagining, like maybe we'll get to him dating Ms. Pac-Man and- oh wait, there is no Ms. Pac-Man. Also, since he's now a teenager his poor kids have been retconed out of existence. His dog Chompy has been replaced by a Gizmo knock off and Professor Pac-Man has been replaced by Sir Cumference(Admittedly, the only new character I like.). Not to mention the fact that now Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde are now no longer the main villains, no in fact now their friends with Pac-Man. Make way for Lord Betrayus, his "Butt-ler" and of course Dr. Buttocks. LOL BUTZ

Thats the problem with the new Pac-Man cartoon: it has nothing to do with Pac-Man other then "Pac-Man eats ghosts." What also makes me bitter is all these changes happend right after Pac-Man's creator retired. Way to honor and remember his legacy Namco-sorry, "Bandai-Namco".

To be honest, is that any different or worse than turning Kirby into an infant in his own cartoon?

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

is that any different or worse than turning Kirby into an infant in his own cartoon?

Originally Posted by TMNT_Guy

Well, now he's teenager in the futuristic city Pacoplolis. That’s still not the problem.

Well, for one thing, Kirby's age in the games has never been given. Other than an English instruction manual referring to him as a "young boy" anyway. Based on his childlike and naive personality, I can very much assume Kirby is very young. So him being an infant isn't a change, it's more of a revelation.

Also, Kirby of the Stars(AKA: Kirby Right Back at Ya!) still has all of Kirby's characters from the games: King Dedede, Meta Knight, Waddle Dees, heck even Lololo and Lalala appear and only die-hard Kirby fans would know about them. They only really introduce three new characters out of necessity: Fumu and Bun(Aka: Tiff and Tuff) because Kirby doesn’t talk much and Escargon(AkA Escargoon) so King Dedede has someone to talk to.

Besides, as I said before, Pac-Man being younger is not the problem. The problem is that the cartoon doesn’t have any of the characters or environments from the games. I think it would have been awesome to see a younger Pac-Man meeting Ms. Pac-Man and seeing their relationship slowly blossom. I wouldn't even mind his new friends Cylindria and Spiral so much if they would have at least kept Pac-Man's cast. Like it would have been cool to see Professor Pac-Man reintroduced as Pac-Man's teacher. Or have a time travel episode where Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man go to the future and learn that they eventually get married and have two kids, Pac-Man Jr and Baby Pac-Man. But we won't ever see them in this show because Pac-Man is "the only yellow one.” Other then Pac-Man and Blinky, Inky, Pinky, and Clyde, none of the established cast reappears in this show.

Let's take the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as an example. Let's say that instead of the Nickelodeon Ninja Turtles show we got, the only thing that remained is the turtles act like teenagers. There is no Splinter in this series, there is no April O' Neil in this series, there is no Casey Jones. The only other character that’s in the show is Shredder, who’s working for a bigger bader ninja and is best friends with the turtles and desperately wants to get out of his ninja clan. Also, instead of living in the sewers of New York, the turtles now live in an underground cave system underneath a small village.

I think alot of us would have been upset, don't you think? Oh, and the other thing about the Kirby anime is it didn't reboot the games.

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by TheBlueTurtle1

Can't beat the sonic sega megadrive era designs.

Well yes the original designs are great and iconic but the characters appearance changing like it has certainly fits as them getting older.

I know Sonic is always said to be a teenager, right? Even originally but for me I think its cooler to think of him as getting older. Like classic Sonic would be a teen, modern Sonic could be in his 20s and Sonic Boom's (if they decided to use it permanently) could be 30.

Its never said how much time has passed in the games (not sure about the comic) but if he was 15, I think it stated, in Sonic 1...25 in 2001...35 in 2011. He'd be 38 or 39 now, right? Im not good at math. Im just thinking in 10 year windows and added 2012/13.

[DarkLightDragon]

Except Sonic didn't turn 20 in Generations. He's still 15 according to Sonic Channel. Just because the game marked the 20th anniversary of the series, doesn't mean that's going to reflect the character himself being 20. By that logic, he should've been a baby during Sonic 1 and 10 years old during SA2.

*A-hem* Rant aside, I don't really expect anything to change regarding how Boom will make each character's age, since it's typical for any media to be intentionally ambiguous with how much or how little characters age. It's like the Simpsons where characters have birthdays and have yearly holidays, but are never referred to how old they are because it's likely no one is going to care anyway.

[Ninjinister]

Relevant

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=330

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well hopefully this show turns out better than the previous shows, especially Sonic Underground and Sonic X.

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Sonic X.

Sonic X was AMAZING!

It was the best adaptation Sonic has ever had! Ignoring the dub, of course. It had everything you could want out of a Sonic cartoon: lots of action with Sonic's friends beating up and exploding Eggman's robots each week and during the Sonic Adventure 2 adaptation when Live and Learn starts playing= pure awesome. Lots of funny moments like the episode where Sonic is trapped on a cruise ship and is freaking out because he has nowhere to run or Ella chasing after Bokkun in Tails' plane. Also, lots of sweet moments, like when Sonic repairs the necklace Amy gives him or the flashback scene where all the other animals made fun of Tails for having two tails, until meeting Sonic who accepts him for who he is. All of the Sonic cast are written at their best here and the show knows how to play with their strengths and weaknesses...and then we have Chris Thorndyke.

I think it helps to understand WHY Chris is in Sonic X in the first place, and for that I have to type about Japanese culture. Now, I'm not an expert on the Japanese. But this is my understanding of their storytelling. Unlike western stories, Japanese stories usually have a character that they can relate to, which is why the majority of anime and manga are about teenage boys and teenage girls. Unless the character is human, (and this is just the majority, I'm not saying all of the Japanese are like this, human beings are too complex to just be shoved into groups.) most Japanese can't have any feelings for these strange, alien-like creatures. Which is a contrast for us westerners: as long as the character were watching shows some form of humanity we can sympathize with them and watch these humanoid animals just like if we were watching a show with real people.

Like Bambi, I'm sure many of us cried when Bambi's mom was killed, but for most Japanese they would probably just watch it and say "It was just an animal." It's the reason why Sonic was given a human love interest in Sonic 06: if they had made Sonic's love interest an animal, the Japanese wouldn't be able to feel anything for them. But by making her a human, it gives them someone they can understand and relate to.

So that’s why Chris is in Sonic X. Chris always reminded me of Tim Drake from the New Batman Adventures. While Dick Grayson's Robin from the previous series always felt like a genuine sidekick for Batman, Tim Drake was usually played for comedy because "lol he is so young" and I was always left thinking "Ugh, get out of here Mini-Robin! I wana watch Batman!” But he never does, he's ALWAYS there with Batman. Now in Sonic X, Chris isn't ALWAYS with Sonic. There are plenty of moments with just the Sonic cast. This is why I can tolerate, (not like, TOLERATE.) Chris in Sonic X unlike Tim Drake in the New Batman Adventures because the focus is still on Sonic, and he still gets plenty of alone time. I think it also helps knowing why Chris is in the show anyway. It's a cultural thing, and you have to have an open mind when watching things separate from your culture.

I can understand if you don't like the show, but for me, I can look past its flaws. It's not perfect, but it's everything you could want out of a Sonic TV show.

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Sonic Underground.

Yeah...that’s the one Sonic media branch that I can't defend. I think this explains the failings of the show:

Sega: Dic Entertainment, we want you to create a new Sonic the Hedgehog TV series. Sonic's been out of the public's mind for five years now and we want people to be interested in Sonic again. Our new game Sonic Adventure is sure to do this, but we are seeking other forms of entertainment to promote Sonic.

Dic Executive 1: Eh, I don't know...the last two Sonic shows we did weren't much of a success...

Dic Executive 2: Say...if we put a vocal song into every episode, we would get royalties every time the show airs in syndication!

Dic Executive 1: Brilliant!

[Wildcat]

@ darklightdragon, I know age is usually unknown or characters just dont age at all. I just meant personally I like to think Sonic has grown up since the Genesis/Mega Drive era because he looks more mature now.
.......
I didnt really like Sonic X. Maybe because Ive never been into anime but I only saw it in its original run so maybe Id like it better now. It just seemed like typical anime action with Sonic tacked on to me. After the game tie-ins.

Guess Im in the minority but Ive always liked Underground. It had a similar style and tone to SatAM. I was disappointed it didnt get a proper ending. Some of the songs are chessy and weren't necessary but whatever.

Id say SatAM was the best Sonic cartoon so far. Serious with some humor, good characters besides Sonic and cool art style. I have the DVD set.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Sonic X was NOT amazing! It was a childish anime adaption of the Adventure series. The Japanese version is better but not by much.