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Old 09-06-2019, 04:19 PM   #541
CyberCubed
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Give PL till he's 78, maybe then we can say he'll never finish it.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:55 PM   #542
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Well if the IDW main series dies down and the rise toon fizzles like it appears to be the maybe there will be incentive to finish the v4 perhaps
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:32 PM   #543
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Well if the IDW main series dies down and the rise toon fizzles like it appears to be the maybe there will be incentive to finish the v4 perhaps
Incentive from who? IDW? They aren't legally able to continue on from where he left off. And even still, Vol. 4 wasn't exactly flying off the shelves when it was in comic stores.

Incentive from Peter, then? Why would he care about the IDW comic's sales or whether or not cartoons fizzle?
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:56 PM   #544
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Mate, just throwing out ideas
I for one really enjoyed v4
While I donít want to see the idw series slow down was just saying maybe it could be a way to keep the franchise relevant in the event of slow period
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:55 AM   #545
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I don't see why IDW slowing down would entice a Vol. 4 conclusion, which is now niche, and they can happen at the same time.

If IDW TMNT ends it'll either because Viacom didn't renew the license with them or they just want to end it and reboot it, similar to their Transformers line.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:07 AM   #546
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I don't see why IDW slowing down would entice a Vol. 4 conclusion, which is now niche, and they can happen at the same time.

If IDW TMNT ends it'll either because Viacom didn't renew the license with them or they just want to end it and reboot it, similar to their Transformers line.
The idea is that TMNT books are some of the company’s best sellers. IDW has quite consistently been putting out new TMNT material in one form or another since acquiring the license. If they can depend on a book getting decent sales, while only having to pay for coloring, then it’s plausible they would.

If course, it still doesn’t mean Peter would finish it, if that’s all you’re saying. I’d bet on them just releasing it in trade format.
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:19 AM   #547
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Just think, if they ever finish Vol. 4, instead of prescribing Ambien for the sleep-deprived doctors could just give' em that.

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Old 09-09-2019, 01:45 PM   #548
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#1: He seems even less interested than ever in finishing it.

#2: I don't see IDW stepping in to finish it independent of him. Plus Jim won't do it without him anyway, and a Vol. 4 finisher without either Jim OR Peter would be pretty senseless.

#3: I don't see IDW even being interested in giving Vol. 4 the "Urban Legends" treatment. At least not anytime in the (remotely) foreseeable future.
You forget if there's money to be made you bet IDW will get Volume 4 reprinted and completed.
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:49 PM   #549
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You forget if there's money to be made you bet IDW will get Volume 4 reprinted and completed.
Again, IDW legally can't complete it even if they wanted to -- Peter has said so. And I doubt they'd even want to.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:10 PM   #550
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You forget if there's money to be made you bet IDW will get Volume 4 reprinted and completed.
Considering they already decided "fvck it" for reprinting Tales... I wouldn't count on a lot of interest in reprinting Volume 4.

Maybe if Volume 3 engenders enough interest and sales... I hope it does...
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:50 PM   #551
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Mirage is about as far away as it gets from what the majority of people want/expect from a TMNT book. Right or wrong, good or bad, people like things they recognize.

I've only read a very few issues of IDW, and my feelings on it are mixed, but it doesn't surprise me one bit that this series got over in a way the "real" TMNT books never did. From the fact that it's in color to the very important point that Things Actually Happen, it's miles away from Vol. 4's approach of constant build-up and no payoff. "Stuff's gonna happen... seriously... any minute now, just hang in there! Aaaaannnnd... NOPE, still building. But we'll get ya there, honest!" It's one thing to be in black and white and poorly-drawn (Opinion), but if your story doesn't go anywhere then people aren't going to wanna read it. Like I said, I've barely read any IDW but it definitely seems to have a lot more going on, and I'm sure that makes people pretty happy.

Tales Vol. 2 was infinitely better than Vol. 4, but I think it suffered from "guilt by association" as far as not exactly setting the world on fire. I know some people will defend Vol. 4 to the death but frankly I can't see how it would hold the attention of anyone but the hardest of hardcores. But that's me.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:52 PM   #552
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Mirage is about as far away as it gets from what the majority of people want/expect from a TMNT book. Right or wrong, good or bad, people like things they recognize.

I've only read a very few issues of IDW, and my feelings on it are mixed, but it doesn't surprise me one bit that this series got over in a way the "real" TMNT books never did. From the fact that it's in color to the very important point that Things Actually Happen, it's miles away from Vol. 4's approach of constant build-up and no payoff. "Stuff's gonna happen... seriously... any minute now, just hang in there! Aaaaannnnd... NOPE, still building. But we'll get ya there, honest!" It's one thing to be in black and white and poorly-drawn (Opinion), but if your story doesn't go anywhere then people aren't going to wanna read it. Like I said, I've barely read any IDW but it definitely seems to have a lot more going on, and I'm sure that makes people pretty happy.

Tales Vol. 2 was infinitely better than Vol. 4, but I think it suffered from "guilt by association" as far as not exactly setting the world on fire. I know some people will defend Vol. 4 to the death but frankly I can't see how it would hold the attention of anyone but the hardest of hardcores. But that's me.
Sadly, you're not wrong. I love me some Volume 4, but only about half of it.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of its plot points get incorporated into IDW's stuff, but IDW is just too different and mainstream of a beast.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:53 PM   #553
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Mirage is about as far away as it gets from what the majority of people want/expect from a TMNT book.
The majority of what active TMNT fans want right now probably looks a lot like "Rise of the TMNT." Because they're about 6 years old. Everybody else but diehards like us (enough to fill a niche, not enough to bulid a new direction around) have long moved on.

Which is why "Urban Legends" is so interesting. It is like the first and only bone (beyond stuff like the 30th anniversary special, maybe) thrown to the oldest fans by TPTB.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:45 PM   #554
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I wonder if they would go this route with Vol 4? Releasing single issues in color until we get the long awaited conclusion? Is that off the table for Archie?
I would genuinely not like for this to happen ever. And I also highly doubt it would. Peter and Jim or no thanks.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:34 AM   #555
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From what I understand, Urban Legends has the involvement of the original creative team, who is doing the three issue conclusion. If Vol 4 were to be recolored, would Jim have any involvement? Not sure if Peter would care either way. Would you like to see Vol 4 in color? I'd just like something for my shelf. I have most of the floppies but you can't display that easily! I wish they could do vol 2 in a big trade paperback as well, but like you said, the Mirage stuff is kind of drying out at IDW with them stopping Tales. The Urban Legends stuff is special, so I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth!
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:48 AM   #556
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If Vol 4 were to be recolored, would Jim have any involvement?
He's not a colorist, so probably not. And he won't do any new Vol. 4 stuff without Peter. And recolored implies it was colored at some point... it wasn't.
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Old Yesterday, 12:18 AM   #557
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Mirage is about as far away as it gets from what the majority of people want/expect from a TMNT book. Right or wrong, good or bad, people like things they recognize.
The majority of people also liked the 1990 film which was largely based on Mirage.
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Old Yesterday, 01:08 AM   #558
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Right; it was based on the parts of Mirage Vol. 1 where stuff actually happened, albeit tweaked in a few small ways to more superficially resemble the cartoon show. The iconic stuff. Dare I say, "The Good Stuff".

It most certainly was NOT based on Mirage Vol. 4, aka "A series of meandering separate plotlines which never even threaten to come together or conclude in any meaningful way and individually aren't very exciting." Nor was it based on the majority of Vol. 1. which was guest-artist filler material of varying quality.

They basically took the four or five most exciting issues of Mirage that had been published up to that point and tweaked the story to make a singular plot. And that's fine. But it also betrays just how little meat there was on the bone as far as Mirage goes. By 1989 they didn't have a ton of stuff that was worth adapting into a film.

It could be argued that the first film still wouldn't have been as successful as it was, if they hadn't taken the extra step of grafting most of the characters' cartoon personalities and character traits onto them, as well. Raph and Casey were still pretty much their Mirage selves, but everyone else was clearly based on their cartoon counterpart. And that was probably a good idea.

The final film was about 50/50 Mirage and Fred Wolf. And it probably needed to be exactly what it was; given how many complaints the movie as it was actually got for the violence and "darkness", a straight Mirage adaptation surely would have failed at that moment in time, while going 100% Fred Wolf for the sequel actually made them less money. So a hybrid approach was most likely why the original film was so successful.
--------------------------

My original point was towards the likelihood of Mirage Vol. 4 ever getting a conclusion under the IDW banner, and my personal opinion (based on evidence both modern and contemporary) that there's not enough interest nor a point to actually make it happen. Nobody read Vol. 4 when it was coming out, and the most common complaint cited at the time was, "This is absolutely nothing like what the average reader wants or expects from a TMNT comic book." Which is why Vol. 4 failed and IDW succeeds, by giving people what they want/expect (even if it comes off as "TMNT Jumbalaya" as some put it).

Most people who self-identify as "TMNT Fans" tell me they didn't read Vol. 4 because of the terrible artwork, but since the story wasn't any good, either, I have to assume that even if they did read it, they wouldn't have liked it. Since the series was such a flop when it was fresh, I highly doubt that there's enough incentive for them to conclude and re-publish it now. I can see, maybe, a colorized reprint series of the issues that already came out, but even that's pretty unlikely. Laird caring enough to actually finish it is even less likely. My feelings on Image are mixed at best, but as I recall, when that book was coming out there was at least a buzz around it, so I can buy the reprint/conclusion happening for that book, but not for Vol. 4.

I get what you're trying to say about the first film, but it's kind of over-simplifying why that movie worked and also misses my specific point about the various comic book series.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 AM   #559
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I don't agree that the artwork is horrible, its just really rushed in a lot of places.

I personally loved Volume 4. In retrospect, I can agree with you to the extent that it was really some of Peter's best creative concepts executed extremely poorly. I wouldn't mind some of those ideas leaking into the IDW series if Viacom does in fact own the content, if not the legal rights to add to it.

It's simply not true that "nobody read Volume 4" because lots of people read it. The book was however expensive to produce because Peter didn't care about sales. He lost money on it at times but adamantly refused to let it die (probably because he used part of the letters section to purport his liberalism). He did it so aggressively and obnoxiously and had the attitude that "he was going to say what he wanted because he was having to foot the bill since he was losing money on it any way." This came off to many people as tacky and offensive. To be fair, I was a practicing liberal at the time Volume 4 was being printed and I found it cringe-worthy. I think he was hoping for his own renaissance with him at the helm of his own political and profitable pirate ship, but nothing that came out of this era of TMNT could hold a candle to candy-coated Turtlemania in the nineties. His children had yet again disappointed him due to poor leadership on his part and he disowned them.

I'm not proud of how caught up in this I got.
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