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Old 04-28-2017, 12:54 PM   #501
Coola Yagami
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Still in essence a reboot
Correct. It's in no way s continuation of the 80s cartoon.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:10 PM   #502
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Correct. It's in no way s continuation of the 80s cartoon.
Which was never going happen and never will.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:42 PM   #503
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God, this is true. And "Return to New York" (in name only) was so maddeningly babyish and toy-shilling I wanted to throw a free weight at the TV.
Man, I remember being younger and stupider and thinking that 2003's adaption of Return to New York was the sh*t. After years of having not seen it, a couple months ago, I picked up the Nickelodeon re-release as well as copies of the three-issue Mirage arc and read the issues first. I turned on my Blu-ray player excited to see the 2003 adaption again.

...It didn't hold up. It enraged me, even.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:55 PM   #504
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Man, I remember being younger and stupider and thinking that 2003's adaption of Return to New York was the sh*t. After years of having not seen it, a couple months ago, I picked up the Nickelodeon re-release as well as copies of the three-issue Mirage arc and read the issues first. I turned on my Blu-ray player excited to see the 2003 adaption again.

...It didn't hold up. It enraged me, even.
Out of curiosity what parts enraged you.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:04 PM   #505
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I honestly don't get what's so special about "Return to New York" in the first place, "City at War" to be sure but "Return to New York"? They go back to New York, they team up with Zog (who never gets an explaination for why he's on earth by the way), attack the Foot, fight some goofy looking mutant Shredder clones and kill the Shredder... Again.

I mean really? Flipping through it just for this post... It's nicely drawn, I'll give it that, but the actual story is about as standard as it gets.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:06 PM   #506
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i remember not making much sense out of mirage city at war. nothing really happened. karai got introduced. some old guy in a building no one knew got blown up. casey got some waitress knocked up. i think april's sister was introduced. it just seemed like one 'everyone drifts apart' story line, probably reflecting the end of the E and L partnership.

I don't remember much else beyond that.

Return to New York i remember liking a little more as far as the comics go.

But i swear nothing satisfies mirage fans much. i found both the Return To New York and City at War storylines rather fun and satisfying in 4kids form.

the former one of my favorites.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:29 PM   #507
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i remember not making much sense out of mirage city at war. nothing really happened. karai got introduced. some old guy in a building no one knew got blown up. casey got some waitress knocked up. i think april's sister was introduced. it just seemed like one 'everyone drifts apart' story line, probably reflecting the end of the E and L partnership.

I don't remember much else beyond that.

Return to New York i remember liking a little more as far as the comics go.

But i swear nothing satisfies mirage fans much. i found both the Return To New York and City at War storylines rather fun and satisfying in 4kids form.

the former one of my favorites.
A lot of Mirage isn't really bad (no really, it's not) but most of it is really, really bizarre in it's execution. So sure I can certainly see your point with Mirage's City at War, the whole thing can basically be described like this:
  1. Casey kills a guy, gets drunk, drives off, marries a pregnant woman, she dies in childbirth and he becomes the legal father.
  2. April gets depressed, her parents die, buys Casey's mom's apartment complex.
  3. Splinter gets crippled, Rat King messes with him about survival, Splinter heals.
  4. Foot splinters after Shredder died... Again... Turtles team up with Karai to put a stop to it, they do it and their conflict with the Foot is over.
  5. Picnic conclusion.

It's not bad but it's also weird and depressing...
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:12 PM   #508
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I'm really excited for the new show, I think it'll be a lot of fun for me, I wrote about what I think it'll be like analyzing it on my website a week or two ago. I think most people here will hate it though but it seems like it'll be a fun show.

Anyone expecting something serious will not be happy, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun, just take a look at the original teen titans cartoon, which is what I think Nick wanted for the CG show but it really wasn't anything like it.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:28 PM   #509
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God, this is true. And "Return to New York" (in name only) was so maddeningly babyish and toy-shilling I wanted to throw a free weight at the TV.
I feel like being angry at a cartoon because it didn't tell a story the way you wanted it is more childish than the cartoon itself.
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:55 AM   #510
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Out of curiosity what parts enraged you.
Mostly the parts involving over-simplifying a good, tense story into "fight these guys, then fight these guys, then cut off this guy's head." I wasn't actually enraged, like I wasn't yelling at the TV, but obviously I haven't watched it since then.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:33 PM   #511
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I feel like being angry at a cartoon because it didn't tell a story the way you wanted it is more childish than the cartoon itself.
I feel that way about people who nitpick the Nick series, generally, but I do not agree that it's equal to being upset with a poorly done adaption.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:20 PM   #512
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I honestly don't get what's so special about "Return to New York" in the first place, "City at War" to be sure but "Return to New York"? They go back to New York, they team up with Zog (who never gets an explaination for why he's on earth by the way), attack the Foot, fight some goofy looking mutant Shredder clones and kill the Shredder... Again.

I mean really? Flipping through it just for this post... It's nicely drawn, I'll give it that, but the actual story is about as standard as it gets.
"Return to New York" is huge. It's pretty much the end of the Turtles' whole story arc (with respect to the "circle of vengeance" deal), with "City at War" kind of serving as an extended coda. In the Leo special and #10, #11, they meet the resurrected Shredder and get the crap beat out of them and are sent packing... "Return to New York" is them licking their wounds, digging down deep, coming back and ending the circle once and for all a year or two later bombastically.

It's triumphant as it is poetic, pulling no punches whatosever. And man that last issue (#21) is laid out electrically.

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i remember not making much sense out of mirage city at war. nothing really happened. karai got introduced. some old guy in a building no one knew got blown up. casey got some waitress knocked up. i think april's sister was introduced. it just seemed like one 'everyone drifts apart' story line, probably reflecting the end of the E and L partnership.
To be fair, there WAS a lot of uproar from the fandom at the time of "City at War." People complaining it was taking too long, too decompressed. It reads much better all at once, and in retrospect.

We never knew that would actually be -- mostly -- the end of the "good stuff."

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But i swear nothing satisfies mirage fans much. i found both the Return To New York and City at War storylines rather fun and satisfying in 4kids form.
Hey, some people like the steak. Some people still order the kid's meal with the toy. There's nothing wrong with that. To be fair, probably both "Return to New York" and "City at War" in the 4Kids show were the very best versions of those storylines that could be seen in said medium for said demographic. I just think it's a little sucky they used those titles.

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I feel like being angry at a cartoon because it didn't tell a story the way you wanted it is more childish than the cartoon itself.
Oh, far be it for me to expect the 4Kids cartoon or really any other children's cartoon to remotely faithfully adapt something like "Return to New York." I can only fault it for marching out "Return to New York"'s name and intentionally making a mockery of it. Why even call it that? Why invite that kind of comparison, when it will fail on every level to measure up?

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Old 04-29-2017, 10:03 PM   #513
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It's because the Mirage comics are the original.
Well, Fred Wolf sure wasn't the original; let alone the Next Mutation, and since the vast majority of people thought of TMNT as a TV series, yes; the 2003 series was a reboot in that regard. That it was trying to be closer to the source material than the preceding The Next Mutation doesn't negate it as a reboot anymore than trying to be closer to the source material than the preceding Batman & Robin negates Batman Begins as a reboot.

Since it seems people are still unclear as to what these terms mean:
A sequel is a continuation of the last entries continuity, taking place afterward.
A retcon is an alteration of the current series' continuity, past or present, while it's still going on.
A reboot is the start of a new continuity.
A remake is a reboot that retraces the plot of an entry in a previous continuity.

Note that all of the above presume the same media. This is why 4Kids City at War isn't usually called a remake of Mirage City at War; one's a cartoon series and the other's a book series.
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:31 AM   #514
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Well, Fred Wolf sure wasn't the original; let alone the Next Mutation, and since the vast majority of people thought of TMNT as a TV series, yes; the 2003 series was a reboot in that regard. That it was trying to be closer to the source material than the preceding The Next Mutation doesn't negate it as a reboot anymore than trying to be closer to the source material than the preceding Batman & Robin negates Batman Begins as a reboot.

Since it seems people are still unclear as to what these terms mean:
A sequel is a continuation of the last entries continuity, taking place afterward.
A retcon is an alteration of the current series' continuity, past or present, while it's still going on.
A reboot is the start of a new continuity.
A remake is a reboot that retraces the plot of an entry in a previous continuity.

Note that all of the above presume the same media. This is why 4Kids City at War isn't usually called a remake of Mirage City at War; one's a cartoon series and the other's a book series.
I agree with all of this. Though I think the word "reboot" is thrown around a bit too liberally. IDW is NOT a reboot of Mirage... there is no real term for what it is. It's a sideboot? A sidelaunch? A reboot implies a new thing stomping on the foot of the thing before and saying, "NO! This is the new!" and marching on. Mirage can continue on (and has, two issues since IDW began). I mean, was NT:TNM a "reboot" of Fred Wolf? There was nothing really in place that would mean that Fred Wolf couldn't crap out another season. And NT:TNM wasn't even the same medium.

Only examples of "reboots" in TMNT, IMHO:

1) The first Platinum Dunes movie in 2014. Clearly that's a reboot of the whole movie franchise before it, without doubt.

2) 4Kids cartoon. Clearly that's a reboot of the cartoon universe.

3) Nicktoon. Clearly that's another reboot of the cartoon universe, with a beginning and an end (forthcoming).

There are no other "reboots" in TMNT, that I can tell.
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:28 AM   #515
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In the new show i will be a utrom again but this time i will have a much more powerful robot body than in 2003. Later i will use the mutagen to become human. Then at th end of the series i will go to a demon and become a demon or zombie just like i did in Nick series. Now that i killed Splinter and there is not another human left from the hamato clan my foot ninjas who are watching all over the world told me that a alien Splinter from rat like alien species is coming to earth to fight me. He will look something like this https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...4U3kRpAUYmxfQA and he will be the first alien Splinter that i will fight. First he was rat who mutated then a human who became rat and now he is an alien rat. But no matter how many splinters they are i will KIILL THEM ALL!!
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:30 AM   #516
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I agree with all of this. Though I think the word "reboot" is thrown around a bit too liberally. IDW is NOT a reboot of Mirage... there is no real term for what it is. It's a sideboot? A sidelaunch? A reboot implies a new thing stomping on the foot of the thing before and saying, "NO! This is the new!" and marching on. Mirage can continue on (and has, two issues since IDW began). I mean, was NT:TNM a "reboot" of Fred Wolf? There was nothing really in place that would mean that Fred Wolf couldn't crap out another season. And NT:TNM wasn't even the same medium.

Only examples of "reboots" in TMNT, IMHO:

1) The first Platinum Dunes movie in 2014. Clearly that's a reboot of the whole movie franchise before it, without doubt.

2) 4Kids cartoon. Clearly that's a reboot of the cartoon universe.

3) Nicktoon. Clearly that's another reboot of the cartoon universe, with a beginning and an end (forthcoming).

There are no other "reboots" in TMNT, that I can tell.
I wouldn't call them reboots. While a reboot is yes, a new continuity of a previous property. It's more of a way of jump-starting and revising an older property so that it can be seen and viewed and appreciated by a newer audience.

That is sort of the case with TMNT as the OT series was the first incarnation of this series and then faded out in the late 90's

4kids version was released in 2003 and lasted until 2007.

and the current series began in 2012.

All are targeted a newer audience and there is still a gap of time between each of these incarnations.

That is is what Disney has been doing with the live action versions of its popular films as way of telling an old story to a new audience.

The IDW and the movies are more of a revisioning of the story as it creates its own continuity within the franchise, but there are current versions of the franchise that are still active.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:13 AM   #517
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I agree with all of this. Though I think the word "reboot" is thrown around a bit too liberally. IDW is NOT a reboot of Mirage... there is no real term for what it is. It's a sideboot? A sidelaunch? A reboot implies a new thing stomping on the foot of the thing before and saying, "NO! This is the new!" and marching on.
Alternate continuity, like Ultimate Spider-Man. Ultimate Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Hehe, long title. "Tales of the Rise of the Ultimate Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Universe: Fastforward Back to the Sewers' Secret of the Ooze"

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Mirage can continue on (and has, two issues since IDW began).
It might as well be dead. Best case scenario, it gets a rushed ending in the form of a handful of issues and then it's left alone forever. I guess IDW could make more stories in the Mirage continuity, they just won't.

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I mean, was NT:TNM a "reboot" of Fred Wolf? There was nothing really in place that would mean that Fred Wolf couldn't crap out another season. And NT:TNM wasn't even the same medium.
  1. Fred Wolf lost the rights to produce new episodes.
  2. Peter Laird wouldn't let anyone produce another season of that show.
  3. I don't think Viacom want to try either. They've sort of played with the idea of reviving the Fred Wolf show but it seemed fruitless, my bet is that they'll just keep rebooting every 3-5 years from now on.


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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
Only examples of "reboots" in TMNT, IMHO:

1) The first Platinum Dunes movie in 2014. Clearly that's a reboot of the whole movie franchise before it, without doubt.

2) 4Kids cartoon. Clearly that's a reboot of the cartoon universe.

3) Nicktoon. Clearly that's another reboot of the cartoon universe, with a beginning and an end (forthcoming).

There are no other "reboots" in TMNT, that I can tell.
I can't really disagree with this. There are few failed experiments though, like how the Activision era games couldn't really pick a style. First they tried a Nick style modified for an older audience, then a straight up Nick style, then a PD style and finally an IDW style.

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In the new show i will be a utrom again but this time i will have a much more powerful robot body than in 2003.
Sure, I have no objection to another crack at Ch'rell.

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Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki View Post
Later i will use the mutagen to become human.
Uh...

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Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki View Post
Then at th end of the series i will go to a demon and become a demon or zombie just like i did in Nick series.
Can't these, you know, just be other characters?


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Now that i killed Splinter and there is not another human left from the hamato clan my foot ninjas who are watching all over the world told me that a alien Splinter from rat like alien species is coming to earth to fight me. He will look something like this https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...4U3kRpAUYmxfQA and he will be the first alien Splinter that i will fight. First he was rat who mutated then a human who became rat and now he is an alien rat. But no matter how many splinters they are i will KIILL THEM ALL!!
Why not just have Shredder and Splinter be aliens from the start then?
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:16 AM   #518
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Oh, far be it for me to expect the 4Kids cartoon or really any other children's cartoon to remotely faithfully adapt something like "Return to New York." I can only fault it for marching out "Return to New York"'s name and intentionally making a mockery of it. Why even call it that? Why invite that kind of comparison, when it will fail on every level to measure up?
gotta have at least a FEW killings and some blood in it to make it seem good at least, I guess ;o).

maybe a swear word or two...
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:57 PM   #519
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gotta have at least a FEW killings and some blood in it to make it seem good at least, I guess ;o).

maybe a swear word or two...
Or maybe not a metric ton of camp and sight gags and wacky toy things whirling around the screen. There's a thought.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:20 PM   #520
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4kids version was released in 2003 and lasted until 2007.
No it lasted until 2009.
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