2003

[TMNTmousers]

Anyone been watching this show lately? Will proper dvds ever be released?

[The Turtle Terminator]

Originally Posted by TMNTmousers

Anyone been watching this show lately? Will proper dvds ever be released?

I doubt that proper DVD’s will ever see the light of day

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Make or buy pirated DVDs. That's what I did. Nobody's ever going to release these in decent season sets, and the original releases from back in the day are 1) notoriously hard to find, and 2) notoriously expensive.

[ABrown]

I gave the series a complete rewatch not too long ago. And I love catching the episodes on Pluto TV's TMNT channel. As far as DVD releases go, I wouldn't count on any more. But since Turtles Forever features the turtles from the original cartoon, I do hold out hope that maybe it could get a complete (unedited) release via blu-ray/dvd/digital combo pack, and maybe the remaining seasons will eventually get released digitally.

[frank_one]

I've been rewatching the series lately. I finished the first season yesterday and now I'm starting the second one with the Triceraton war arc. This is the second time I watch it but the first time I skipped a lot of episodes so my goal now is to watch everything, from start to finish. There are filler episodes here and there that are quite annoying but the main stories are well written and compelling. Obviously I love the fact that a lot of episodes are direct adaptations of Mirage's issues and I can feel the involvement of Peter Laird.
In my country the fifth and the seventh seasons and the last two episodes of the sixth have never received a localization and I'm not sure how many episodes were published on dvd so I'm watching the original american version through YouTube and... some other not so legal sources.

[PizzaPower1985]

I tend to think that because this show was so well done and excellent when it was early on... that it's one of the best cartoons ever made. It's a crime that it never got a proper release. The same could be said for the 1994 Spider-man cartoon.

A friend sent me a few links once to some pirated DVD copies in correct order. I just ripped the episodes from Season 1 - 5 via Youtube in 1080P quality, and burned them to disc with a high transfer rate and no data loss. Turtles Forever got its own disc. Can watch them on my big tv downstairs anytime I want.

[Leo656]

It baffles and infuriates me that the Spider-Man show never got a release, either. They could have done one a dozen different times. Like when WB had Superman or Batman movies coming out, they'd use that as an excuse to put out some older, more obscure stuff that had never had a proper release, like the old 1940s serials or the old Super-Friends cartoon, or the Superboy show or the Ruby-Spears cartoon or whatever else. They could have put out the Spider-Man show a bunch of different times and just never bothered.

It makes no sense. The X-Men cartoon from the same era had a full release; why wasn't Spider-Man put out around the same time? There's less of it, and it was just as popular, so what gives?

Before any nitwit says "Nobody buys discs anymore" as a reason, I'm stating that this problem goes back 15 years and includes a period of time when DVD releases of popular cartoon shows were all the rage, and a time when contemporary shows like X-Men did get a release. Yes, it's probably "too late" now for Spider-Man to ever get a disc release, or for 4Kids TMNT to get a proper one. But that doesn't change the fact that "Why did it NEVER happen?" is a perfectly valid question.

Like I love my MLP DVD Season sets. But to live in a world where that show gets a full and proper DVD release and a TMNT show does not, well... definitely feels kinda "wrong", I can't lie. If MLP can get DVD releases all the way to the Present Day, then I think Spider-Man and 4Kids TMNT absolutely can and should as well. No excuses.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It baffles and infuriates me that the Spider-Man show never got a release, either. They could have done one a dozen different times. Like when WB had Superman or Batman movies coming out, they'd use that as an excuse to put out some older, more obscure stuff that had never had a proper release, like the old 1940s serials or the old Super-Friends cartoon, or the Superboy show or the Ruby-Spears cartoon or whatever else. They could have put out the Spider-Man show a bunch of different times and just never bothered.

It makes no sense. The X-Men cartoon from the same era had a full release; why wasn't Spider-Man put out around the same time? There's less of it, and it was just as popular, so what gives?

Before any nitwit says "Nobody buys discs anymore" as a reason, I'm stating that this problem goes back 15 years and includes a period of time when DVD releases of popular cartoon shows were all the rage, and a time when contemporary shows like X-Men did get a release. Yes, it's probably "too late" now for Spider-Man to ever get a disc release, or for 4Kids TMNT to get a proper one. But that doesn't change the fact that "Why did it NEVER happen?" is a perfectly valid question.

Like I love my MLP DVD Season sets. But to live in a world where that show gets a full and proper DVD release and a TMNT show does not, well... definitely feels kinda "wrong", I can't lie. If MLP can get DVD releases all the way to the Present Day, then I think Spider-Man and 4Kids TMNT absolutely can and should as well. No excuses.

I don't buy the argument either that nobody buys discs... Every time a new MCU flick comes out it's got millions upon millions of verfied purchases on amzn... in plastic, not digital.

And my god... that 90's Spidey show seems to be the only cartoon from my childhood to never get a proper release. I think they put out a disc for the short-lived Silver Surfer show. And as far as X-men... they did a release but they messed it up. If I remember right Seasons 4 and 5 came pan-and-scanned, slightly... and the episode order was atrocious.

The fact that Nick has owned TMNT as long as they have and not put it out... in Hi-Def and proper order boggles the mind. They are just sitting on so much money, me thinks... Needs to happen!

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I just ripped the episodes from Season 1 - 5 via Youtube in 1080P quality, and burned them to disc with a high transfer rate and no data loss. Turtles Forever got its own disc. Can watch them on my big tv downstairs anytime I want.

The series has never been released in HD (as far as I know), so that 1080p quality is more like 480p blown-up, there isn't any real improvement over a ripped dvd. I was thinking to do the same and downloading those versions from Youtube as well but than I figured it is just a waste of memory. The best thing you could do is to find a torrent or something with standard definition dvd-rips. Beware, this is illegal stuff.

And I agree about those 90's X-men and Spider-man cartoons, they were great!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It baffles and infuriates me that the Spider-Man show never got a release, either. They could have done one a dozen different times. Like when WB had Superman or Batman movies coming out, they'd use that as an excuse to put out some older, more obscure stuff that had never had a proper release, like the old 1940s serials or the old Super-Friends cartoon, or the Superboy show or the Ruby-Spears cartoon or whatever else. They could have put out the Spider-Man show a bunch of different times and just never bothered.

I know everyone raves about the 90's X-Men cartoon, but is the Spiderman cartoon good?

What's the best Spiderman cartoon to watch? Need advice.

[Leo656]

Yeah, well, a few shut-ins on this forum would disagree with you/us. They've apparently never heard of "The Midwest", aka "The 2/3s of the USA that doesn't have reliable high-speed internet and for whom 'Just Stream It' is not a convenient solution." But you can't expect them to think of anything except what's best for them, personally, so y'know... 2/3s of the U.S. can suck it, I guess.

But yeah, stuff comes out on disc all the time and still makes money. Maybe not as much as 10 years ago but "some" is always better than "none", in my opinion, but... eh.

Historically, Nickelodeon has a terrible history of handling disc releases of their shows - the final season of "The Adventures of Pete & Pete" has been sitting in a warehouse for over a DECADE, just waiting to be shipped but collecting dust because after spending all the money to produce them, Nick execs decided "they didn't see any money in it", and chose to take ZERO profits over "Some". Which shows you how awesome their priorities are. They paid the cast and crew to come do Commentary tracks... they paid to have the discs pressed, packaging made, for the freight to get shipped and stored in a warehouse... and they've ostensibly been paying for that storage for the last 10+ years... and they'd rather spend All That Money and get ZERO return, rather than make ANY money back on their investment. Even if they only released the set as a mail-order thing where you have to order it directly from them, that's STILL money you didn't have when you woke up yesterday. But no, they cut off their nose to spite their face. They'd rather pay for old discs to sit in a warehouse for a decade than make even a dollar of their money back. BRILLIANT.

So given that kinda sh*t, we should probably forget 4Kids ever getting a disc release. Nickelodeon is run by f*cking chimps. They say they want to make money but have no idea how to actually DO that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Historically, Nickelodeon has a terrible history of handling disc releases of their shows - the final season of "The Adventures of Pete & Pete" has been sitting in a warehouse for over a DECADE, just waiting to be shipped but collecting dust because after spending all the money to produce them, Nick execs decided "they didn't see any money in it", and chose to take ZERO profits over "Some". Which shows you how awesome their priorities are. They paid the cast and crew to come do Commentary tracks... they paid to have the discs pressed, packaging made, for the freight to get shipped and stored in a warehouse... and they've ostensibly been paying for that storage for the last 10+ years... and they'd rather spend All That Money and get ZERO return, rather than make ANY money back on their investment. Even if they only released the set as a mail-order thing where you have to order it directly from them, that's STILL money you didn't have when you woke up yesterday. But no, they cut off their nose to spite their face. They'd rather pay for old discs to sit in a warehouse for a decade than make even a dollar of their money back. BRILLIANT.

Sounds like the makings of a perfect heist.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I know everyone raves about the 90's X-Men cartoon, but is the Spiderman cartoon good?

What's the best Spiderman cartoon to watch? Need advice.

I liked it. I didn't watch it obsessively but I liked what I saw of it. There were some nutty "Early-90s Censorship" issues going on as far as violence and whatnot, but honestly, it's kinda hard to notice unless you're looking for it, and was par for the course at the time. Like there was apparently a rule for the animators that "When landing on a rooftop, Spider-Man can never put any pigeons in danger," and it's like, okay. It's nutty that someone thought to make that A Rule but you'd also never even think about that if nobody brought it up.

I admit I'm not up to speed on ALL the Spider-Man cartoons, but the 90s one was the most accurate to the comics as far as I'm aware, and you know that's paramount with regard to my own personal criteria. Zarius is the "Spider-Man Guy" and also a huge cartoon fanatic, so he could probably tell you more.

For me, it was a Very Good Show by the standards of its era. Probably about as good as the Batman cartoon which aired in the same era, but a little bit less so. But every bit as "sincere". If that makes any sense.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Sounds like the makings of a perfect heist.

You're driving.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I liked it. I didn't watch it obsessively but I liked what I saw of it. There were some nutty "Early-90s Censorship" issues going on as far as violence and whatnot, but honestly, it's kinda hard to notice unless you're looking for it, and was par for the course at the time. Like there was apparently a rule for the animators that "When landing on a rooftop, Spider-Man can never put any pigeons in danger," and it's like, okay. It's nutty that someone thought to make that A Rule but you'd also never even think about that if nobody brought it up.

Really? Pigeons? Please tell me you have a source for that, that's hilarious.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I admit I'm not up to speed on ALL the Spider-Man cartoons, but the 90s one was the most accurate to the comics as far as I'm aware, and you know that's paramount with regard to my own personal criteria. Zarius is the "Spider-Man Guy" and also a huge cartoon fanatic, so he could probably tell you more.

Accuracy is indeed a highly held criteria for me as well. That sounds like a plus.

Originally Posted by Leo656

For me, it was a Very Good Show by the standards of its era. Probably about as good as the Batman cartoon which aired in the same era, but a little bit less so. But every bit as "sincere". If that makes any sense.

An excellent comparison! But no DVD season sets? Do I watch it on YouTube or what?

Originally Posted by Leo656

You're driving.

Sounds like low-risk / medium-reward to me. Nick probably won't care, but we can make money off nerds.

I'm driving, but you're paying for snacks.

[PizzaPower1985]

The 90's Spider-man show looked great for its time... but was NOT "accurate" by any definition to the books. Gwen Stacy didnt exist. The Green Goblin got his tech from Hobgoblin (a reversal in the books)... They focused way too much on 2nd and 3rd string villians (Kingpin was THE big bad of that show) and too little on Doc Ock and Norman.

But... it remains my fav. as its what I grew up on.

As far as my 2003 rips go... they got converted to 1080P. I misspoke... You can't really rip 1080P from YT. But high transfer/low compression discs make it fit pretty well. I averaged about 5 episodes per disc. It's a lot of discs and a lot of burning... but if you want physical media... sometimes that's a sacrifice. And as far as DLing anything illegally... I believe in paying artists for their work. mega corporations? they are not artists and if they refuse to put out quality releases, well, that's on them.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

The 90's Spider-man show looked great for its time... but was NOT "accurate" by any definition to the books. Gwen Stacy didnt exist. The Green Goblin got his tech from Hobgoblin (a reversal in the books)... They focused way too much on 2nd and 3rd string villians (Kingpin was THE big bad of that show) and too little on Doc Ock and Norman.

Those are fair points. But I'd argue they skipped Gwen entirely since they couldn't kill her off, therefore even bringing her in would be pointless. MJ's the Endgame; Gwen wouldn't have fit into what that show was.

The Goblin-Switch thing was odd, sure. All that said, it was still about as accurate as one could expect. Batman: TAS wasn't 1:1, either, and in some cases took even bigger liberties than the Spider-Man show. It's all just a question of priority.
--------

CKD: If "Snacks" = "White Castle" then I have zero problem with this.
-----

Here we go:

https://spiderman-animated.fandom.co...nimated_Series

The series was censored so much because at the time parents groups were complaining about the level of violence on Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers. John Semper also revealed in an interview that Spider-Man was censored so much because other countries, such as Canada, were banning several Fox Kids shows they deemed "too violent" such as Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers and Batman: The Animated Series. However, John Semper Jr. has stated that the series was not censored as much as everyone believes and that this rumor has been blown way out of proportion.

Bob Richardson revealed in an interview that Broadcast Standards and Practices told him that Batman: The Animated Series wasn't censored as much as Spider-Man: The Animated Series because Batman was set in a world that resembled the 1930s and it had a much more cartooney look, as opposed to Spider-Man: The Animated Series which had a more realistic look.

When Semper went to conventions he would read the censorship notes. His two favorites were "Caution that when Spider-Man lands on a roof, he doesn't harm any pigeons" and "You may have a villain sent to jail, but you may NOT give him a bus ticket and send him to Florida."

More detailed notes from the same article about what Wasn't Allowed:

Censorship
The series was also known for it's high level of censorship which included:

Spider-Man and other characters were never allowed to punch anyone.

No realistic weapons were allowed to be shown, only laser weapons were allowed on the series.

Characters were not allowed to say the words like die, death, or kill. Instead of these words characters like Spider-Man would say that the burglar "Got Uncle Ben." Also when the Destroyer told the story about how his wife died he said that his wife "Was caught in the cross fire."

Carnage in the comics was a serial killer. In the series he was not allowed to kill anyone so he was changed to a lunatic. However, it is implied that he has killed people but this is never seen on screen. The Punisher as well was not allowed to kill people but it was implied that he had killed before.

When characters would be killed such as Uncle Ben, Kingpin's father, and Jack Murdock they would be killed off screen.

Morbius was not allowed to suck characters blood through his fangs so he sucked the blood through suction cups that are on the palm of his hands.

Additionally Morbius and other characters were not allowed to say the word blood. The word plasma was used in its place.

When the Sinister Six was introduced the team had to be renamed the Insidious Six because the network sensors thought that the word sinister sounded to frightening. This is strange because at the same time X-Men: The Animated Series was using the character Mister Sinister.

Characters were not allowed to break windows and show broken glass.

The reasoning for All That was explained in the first Quoted section above.

Some interesting/positive notes about the creative direction of the series:

- Once in a secure position, John Semper made his first demand of the combined Fox-Marvel forces by making them buy him a complete collection of Spider-Man comics. Fox and Marvel had the idea that armed with six trade paperbacks, Semper was going to create a 65-episode series. However, he told them no, invest the money in the books and they could use them for reference. Semper got his comics and as 1993 moved into 1994 the story editor began researching more than 30 years of Spider-Man lore - building the foundation of the series.

- Avi Arad always intended Spider-Man: The Animated Series to be "one big toy commercial" which caused disagreements between Semper and Arad. At one point Arad almost fired Semper. However, John Semper Jr. and Avi Arad found common ground when Arad realized that a good show could sell toys better than anything else.

- According to John Semper Jr. he was forbidden from doing season long story arcs but did it anyways and almost got fired for it. However, he was allowed to get away with it because Marvel was dealing with their financial problems. Semper has stated that he is proud that he did season long arcs because it forced the viewers to pay attention. Semper has also said that he is proud of the fact that he made enemies over this decision.

So, yeah. It definitely had some problems being Of Its Era, but its heart was in the right place and I still think it was a very good Spider-Man show even within its limitations.

I think you'd dig it. As to How, I think it's on iTunes, or was, but I've never had an iTunes so I don't know. I imagine people probably sell bootleg DVDs as well.
((Checks eBay))

...They sure DO! You can get the entire series on Blu-Ray for about $30+, DVD slightly less. Not "official", of course, but... at this point, who cares?

Whooo, good thing we had this conversation. I got me a check comin'.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Those are fair points. But I'd argue they skipped Gwen entirely since they couldn't kill her off, therefore even bringing her in would be pointless. MJ's the Endgame; Gwen wouldn't have fit into what that show was.

The Goblin-Switch thing was odd, sure. All that said, it was still about as accurate as one could expect. Batman: TAS wasn't 1:1, either, and in some cases took even bigger liberties than the Spider-Man show. It's all just a question of priority.
--------

CKD: If "Snacks" = "White Castle" then I have zero problem with this.
-----

Here we go:

https://spiderman-animated.fandom.co...nimated_Series



More detailed notes from the same article about what Wasn't Allowed:


The reasoning for All That was explained in the first Quoted section above.

Some interesting/positive notes about the creative direction of the series:


So, yeah. It definitely had some problems being Of Its Era, but its heart was in the right place and I still think it was a very good Spider-Man show even within its limitations.

I think you'd dig it. As to How, I think it's on iTunes, or was, but I've never had an iTunes so I don't know. I imagine people probably sell bootleg DVDs as well.
((Checks eBay))

...They sure DO! You can get the entire series on Blu-Ray for about $30+, DVD slightly less. Not "official", of course, but... at this point, who cares?

Whooo, good thing we had this conversation. I got me a check comin'.

For a 90's update to the previous Spidey toons (the 60's one and 2 in the 80's), I think it worked well. They brought in Venom and Carnage and Morbius not being able to "suck blood" as a traditional vampir but instead draining plasma through his hands was interesting. Semper has repeatedly lied about the censorship issues at one point claiming he objected to Spidey throwing punches because he was afraid kids would mimic it. LoL. C'mon! But yeah... as a youngster in 94, it was pretty much my foundation to the Marvel Universe, having not collected comics yet.

As far as being the best Spidey show? Most say Spectacular is... It's hard for me to seperate nostalgia from reality. Spectacular may be the best... but I am most entertained as a 35 year old man when watching this show.

And here's my review:

https://comixntoonz.blogspot.com/201...ed-series.html

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I believe in paying artists for their work. mega corporations? they are not artists and if they refuse to put out quality releases, well, that's on them.

Good point. I would be so willing to give them my money for a Blu-ray release!

[Leo656]

I sleep fine at night knowing that I'm paying SOMEone for the stuff I own.

If Nick or Disney/Marvel/Misc./Etc. don't want my money, and refuse to give me an "official" release of the shows I want to watch, then that's their prerogative. I definitely would pay Nick for the 4Kids TMNT, Marvel for the Spider-Man show, etc. But if they make it impossible, well... s'alright.

And in that case, if Someone Else is going to all the hard work of transferring those shows to a DVD or Blu-Ray, then $30 or so is a fair one-time service charge in exchange for their labor in providing me a product or service that Nick or Marvel obstinately refuse to provide.

I prefer to pay for the things I own. WHO ends up getting paid, in the end, well... that depends on who provides me with what I want. If not Nick/Disney, then Someone Else.

I don't know, to me that makes sense. I find it more honorable than outright thievery. And like I said, I WOULD pay The Right People, but The Right People can't be assed to take my money, so... what am I to do otherwise?

[PizzaPower1985]

For Mirage fans, the first season of TMNT 2003 is, in my estimation... a masterpiece. After that, there are many gems, but as we all know... after the 4th season, it just isn't worth much.

https://comixntoonz.blogspot.com/202...2003-2010.html

Had Mirage put it out, or contracted a company to put it out, on DVD when they owned it... they could've had my $ 10 times over. Because I believed in and loved Mirage!

I dont have love for mega corps like Nick and I wanted that series... so I made it. Had they put it out tho.. in proper order, with great features... I would have parted with my $$$$. Leo makes good sense above.