Which was your preferred Turtle romance?

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Jester

Mikey and Kala and Donnie and April are the only toon relationships that hints at romance

Leo/Lotus was obviously a romance. She asked him to run away with her in her first appearance, and Leo got all dopey when telling Zach's brother who she was.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't get the big deal about the relationships thing, but to me TMNT has always been a bit more light-hearted (which is to say, not as goofy as the OT but not as dark and fatalistic as Mirage). To me, the thought of the Turtles never having emotional attachments to anyone of the opposite gender isn't very realistic, "the species question" notwithstanding (because that's honestly a very superficial argument and has been worked around many times before), and frankly, I find the idea of the Turtles living for about a hundred years or so while completely alone, isolated, and never knowing anything like romantic love to be a little more gloomy and depressing than I care for TMNT to be. To me, the fact that love and relationships exist in real life means it can and even should be on the table for use in fictional stories.

I "get" that, to some, the tragic and lonely existence is part of what they like about "their" TMNT. Or for others, it's "just a kids cartoon" and stuff like that has no place. I get that, to those people at either extreme, adding in any kind of relationship angle ruins things for them. And that's fine, for them, but what they like is not entirely the kind of TMNT stories I want to read all the time.

Likewise, if they're gonna "go there", it should be done well or it's pointless. Frankly, they haven't had much success in "going there", so I do get why some people hate the very idea of them having relationships or being attracted to someone. It can be and has been done poorly in the past. But that's not to say it can't work or should never be attempted. Conversely, that also doesn't mean that romance or stories of relationships should become the focus of the stories or overshadow everything else that's going on, but I don't think it should have to. The Superman books didn't become mini-romance novels once Lois and Clark got together and got married, for example, but it did free up both characters to become more well-written and dynamic characters than they'd been in decades, as well as allowed writers to try some entirely new ideas with the characters (to varying degrees of success).

I thought Ninjara and Raphael in the Archie books was an example of doing it well, and it made Raphael much more interesting (and tragic) as a character, giving him an actual arc and a storyline which expanded on the ONE story he always normally has (you know, the one where he's a complete loner who's angry all the time... THAT never gets old or redundant. WE GET IT.). Seeing him go through an entire developmental cycle of meeting someone, building a relationship with them, sabotaging it with his own self-destructive behavior, and eventually losing them, made Raphael a much more interesting, dynamic, and REAL character than I can remember seeing him being portrayed elsewhere. Adding Ninjara to the mix didn't hurt Raphael's character in the least, rather she "fixed" it and made him infinitely more interesting, and had the series continued, they could have done a lot to explore Raphael psychologically, as in WHY he's so damn angry and self-destructive, to the point of alienating everyone he cares for.

So I think it works, it can be done, but no need pointlessly throwing it in unless it makes sense. For one, I think the guys deserve at least a fleeting chance to be happy, the wall-to-wall misery and bleakness in some of the fiction is a bit much at times. But that's not to say it should overtake everything else or be done for no real reason, either. I would vote for Raphael/Ninjara as the best example of doing it right, but I didn't see it on the list.

Maybe thats why theres a new "version" of her in the IDW run.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't get the big deal about the relationships thing, but to me TMNT has always been a bit more light-hearted (which is to say, not as goofy as the OT but not as dark and fatalistic as Mirage). To me, the thought of the Turtles never having emotional attachments to anyone of the opposite gender isn't very realistic, "the species question" notwithstanding (because that's honestly a very superficial argument and has been worked around many times before), and frankly, I find the idea of the Turtles living for about a hundred years or so while completely alone, isolated, and never knowing anything like romantic love to be a little more gloomy and depressing than I care for TMNT to be. To me, the fact that love and relationships exist in real life means it can and even should be on the table for use in fictional stories.

I "get" that, to some, the tragic and lonely existence is part of what they like about "their" TMNT. Or for others, it's "just a kids cartoon" and stuff like that has no place. I get that, to those people at either extreme, adding in any kind of relationship angle ruins things for them. And that's fine, for them, but what they like is not entirely the kind of TMNT stories I want to read all the time.

Likewise, if they're gonna "go there", it should be done well or it's pointless. Frankly, they haven't had much success in "going there", so I do get why some people hate the very idea of them having relationships or being attracted to someone. It can be and has been done poorly in the past. But that's not to say it can't work or should never be attempted. Conversely, that also doesn't mean that romance or stories of relationships should become the focus of the stories or overshadow everything else that's going on, but I don't think it should have to. The Superman books didn't become mini-romance novels once Lois and Clark got together and got married, for example, but it did free up both characters to become more well-written and dynamic characters than they'd been in decades, as well as allowed writers to try some entirely new ideas with the characters (to varying degrees of success).

I thought Ninjara and Raphael in the Archie books was an example of doing it well, and it made Raphael much more interesting (and tragic) as a character, giving him an actual arc and a storyline which expanded on the ONE story he always normally has (you know, the one where he's a complete loner who's angry all the time... THAT never gets old or redundant. WE GET IT.). Seeing him go through an entire developmental cycle of meeting someone, building a relationship with them, sabotaging it with his own self-destructive behavior, and eventually losing them, made Raphael a much more interesting, dynamic, and REAL character than I can remember seeing him being portrayed elsewhere. Adding Ninjara to the mix didn't hurt Raphael's character in the least, rather she "fixed" it and made him infinitely more interesting, and had the series continued, they could have done a lot to explore Raphael psychologically, as in WHY he's so damn angry and self-destructive, to the point of alienating everyone he cares for.

So I think it works, it can be done, but no need pointlessly throwing it in unless it makes sense. For one, I think the guys deserve at least a fleeting chance to be happy, the wall-to-wall misery and bleakness in some of the fiction is a bit much at times. But that's not to say it should overtake everything else or be done for no real reason, either. I would vote for Raphael/Ninjara as the best example of doing it right, but I didn't see it on the list.

Well explained Leo656! ***congratulatory clapping***
You elaborated my viewpoint almost exactly that I have expressed here, and on other threads beforehand regarding the whole romance/shipping aspect to TMNT.

Good romances, I believe, are love interests that bring out different sides of the characters (or in this case the Turtles). As the relationship becomes progressively closer and more intimate, it reveals character flaws and weaknesses that can be explored more deeply than sometimes other family or friend relationships can not uncover since so much is exposed within a person's character in regards to romantic relationships.

Raphael and Ninjara is a good example of good shipping. It reveals a side to the Turtles that sometimes no other relative or friend can expose, and in the process, helps the reader to understand why a Turtle's personality is, the way it is. As you have explained with Archie's Raphael.

If the shipping/romance, is used simply to fulfill a childish, blissful "happily ever after" purpose then it comes across as highly immature and unpractical. (Personally, I'm an optimistic romantic but there has to be some realism here for the reader to relate to this situation, and to have a deeper appreciation for it as an adult. While having this "relationship realism", in the process, it makes the reader more engrossed into a romantic relationship since he/she could relate to the relationship's highs and lows.) Then you have another extreme, in which more "fringe" fans want official shipping/romance as a device to cross into their hentai-themed art, fics, and ideas. Ugh...

Anyways though, Great insight Leo656!

[InsaneZane]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't get the big deal about the relationships thing, but to me TMNT has always been a bit more light-hearted (which is to say, not as goofy as the OT but not as dark and fatalistic as Mirage). To me, the thought of the Turtles never having emotional attachments to anyone of the opposite gender isn't very realistic, "the species question" notwithstanding (because that's honestly a very superficial argument and has been worked around many times before), and frankly, I find the idea of the Turtles living for about a hundred years or so while completely alone, isolated, and never knowing anything like romantic love to be a little more gloomy and depressing than I care for TMNT to be. To me, the fact that love and relationships exist in real life means it can and even should be on the table for use in fictional stories.

I "get" that, to some, the tragic and lonely existence is part of what they like about "their" TMNT. Or for others, it's "just a kids cartoon" and stuff like that has no place. I get that, to those people at either extreme, adding in any kind of relationship angle ruins things for them. And that's fine, for them, but what they like is not entirely the kind of TMNT stories I want to read all the time.

Likewise, if they're gonna "go there", it should be done well or it's pointless. Frankly, they haven't had much success in "going there", so I do get why some people hate the very idea of them having relationships or being attracted to someone. It can be and has been done poorly in the past. But that's not to say it can't work or should never be attempted. Conversely, that also doesn't mean that romance or stories of relationships should become the focus of the stories or overshadow everything else that's going on, but I don't think it should have to. The Superman books didn't become mini-romance novels once Lois and Clark got together and got married, for example, but it did free up both characters to become more well-written and dynamic characters than they'd been in decades, as well as allowed writers to try some entirely new ideas with the characters (to varying degrees of success).

I thought Ninjara and Raphael in the Archie books was an example of doing it well, and it made Raphael much more interesting (and tragic) as a character, giving him an actual arc and a storyline which expanded on the ONE story he always normally has (you know, the one where he's a complete loner who's angry all the time... THAT never gets old or redundant. WE GET IT.). Seeing him go through an entire developmental cycle of meeting someone, building a relationship with them, sabotaging it with his own self-destructive behavior, and eventually losing them, made Raphael a much more interesting, dynamic, and REAL character than I can remember seeing him being portrayed elsewhere. Adding Ninjara to the mix didn't hurt Raphael's character in the least, rather she "fixed" it and made him infinitely more interesting, and had the series continued, they could have done a lot to explore Raphael psychologically, as in WHY he's so damn angry and self-destructive, to the point of alienating everyone he cares for.

So I think it works, it can be done, but no need pointlessly throwing it in unless it makes sense. For one, I think the guys deserve at least a fleeting chance to be happy, the wall-to-wall misery and bleakness in some of the fiction is a bit much at times. But that's not to say it should overtake everything else or be done for no real reason, either. I would vote for Raphael/Ninjara as the best example of doing it right, but I didn't see it on the list.

I need to read more of the Archie!
the stories dont have all one dimensional
thanks for making these great points, love the superman reference

[miru]

Wheeler is Raph + Ninjara?