Krang with rewritten origin?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Not on screen for most but those things did happen and the character's reactions establish him as a big threat from the beginning. Go read my post again.

Read mine. You can't point to one thing he did in real-time. Maybe smacking around some empty buildings, apparently?

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Read mine. You can't point to one thing he did in real-time. Maybe smacking around some empty buildings, apparently?

I don't really think it matters whether he did it in real time or not. It was already pretty well established that he was one of the most dangerous villains out there. He did destroy quite a few buildings in Shredder Triumphant, destroyed some mountains, smashed some when he turned into a giant, had that Impervioum Gem that made him invincible briefly, had the Firestar, took down the Turtles rather easily, even in a military robot and was defeated when Shredder caught him off guard in Turtles on Trial. His army would have destroyed everything if they fully entered through the portal in Shredder and Splintered.

He would have destroyed the Turtles long ago really. In the Archie Comics it's said that he had destroyed so many planets and civilizations. The only planet we know he destroyed for sure was Beserko's world, but knowing Krang, he probably destroyed way more.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Read mine. You can't point to one thing he did in real-time. Maybe smacking around some empty buildings, apparently?

I did, Baxter's execution was in real-time and Krang clearly came moments away from destroying the turtles with the intent to kill. Of course, its a kids show so it couldn't be done but the intent was there and it established that Krang was a pretty big threat. Broadcast standards wouldn't allow it, but many kids probably imagined Krang killing his enemies like a badass based on his threatening moments in the show, I know I did when I used to watch it regularly.

If you want a real-time moment where someone gets killed though by Krang (indirectly) then look at the last episode of the series, where his android body has a nuclear explosion and kills Lord Dregg in real time (we hear it) whose capabilities are nothing to scoff at, considering his power after absorbing the five most powerful aliens in the galaxy and multiplying their powers a hundred fold.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I did, Baxter's execution was in real-time

Baxter died? If not, then it's an example of him being... incompetent.

If you want a real-time moment where someone gets killed though by Krang (indirectly) then look at the last episode of the series, where his android body has a nuclear explosion and kills Lord Dregg in real time (we hear it).

We know he is dead, for sure? We're sure Krang was successful?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

We know he is dead, for sure? We're sure Krang was successful?

Yes, he's dead. That was the intent for the final episode of the series. There were no plans to create another season and that was the final closure.

Even if you want to argue against it due it not being on-screen, the odds are overwhelming that Dregg didn't survive an atomic level explosion by the most powerful creation in the show which showed feats of great strength time and time again.

Not to mention these were the Red Sky episodes, so its safe to assume that they'd be much more comfortable intending for a character to die during this era when things were darker (I never bluff)

[Yabuturtle]

Not really incompetent. Just bad luck really, that a fly happened to have showed up. Although then again he didn't have to use that room to get rid of him, could have just shot him or had his rock soldiers shoot him, but he was intending to kill him. And it would have worked if the fly didn't end up being in the same room.

We don't see Dregg get killed, but the explosion would have. The android was roughly equal with Dregg who was absurdly powerful at that point, there was no way he could escape the androids grip, and he could not have survived such a powerful explosion at such close range. We hear the explosion too, if you listen carefully. And the fact we never see or hear Dregg again, and the creators intended to end the series this way, what with Splinter saying that his students are now his equals.

However I think Subprime was wrong to call his cousin incompetent, when Krang already had his empire and destroyed multiple worlds. Just never made sense to me. He actually might have had a body count that rivaled the Utrom Shredder.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Even if you want to argue against it due it not being on-screen, the odds are overwhelming that Dregg didn't survive an atomic level explosion

Dregg is a normal mortal human being? Huh. I never knew that.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Dregg is a normal mortal human being?

No, but he's not Superman either.

[Yabuturtle]

I think Krang was defeated too easily by Subprime when he was banished. Didn't even put up a fight. In turtles forever he tried to fight even if he got whacked away. At least in TT, he was a much more competent fighter.

If Krang is a different breed of Utrom, it would be nice to see other versions of these Utrom in the 2012 cartoon. And it would be interesting to see giant Krang against Kraang Prime

Interestingly enough Krang himself has hypnotizing powers, like Prime. Are there other Utrom that can hypnotize? That also might explain why Krang would betray the Kraang, if he feels he can control others through mind control.

They never specified his powers but it seems like the dumber the person it, the easier it is to control them. And it only lasts for 30 minutes though. Still it's interesting that he and Prime can hypnotize.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

No, but he's not Superman either.

Then there's been Red Sky episodes that have analyzed his power level and invulnerability, or lack thereof?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Then there's been Red Sky episodes that have analyzed his power level and invulnerability, or lack thereof?

Its kinda obvious that character's aren't generally immortal unless they specifically state it. This is not Looney Tunes where characters can survive with their eyes on their feet by default, characters have died in the OT and the default position for a character in that show is that they're mortal, that's why they go through conflicts in the first place. They survive in many cases because of plot armour due to it being a kids show, not because they have the capability to have a talking head after it has been blown off by Yosemite Sam.

If you want more specific examples though, Dregg fearing Doomquest and wailing when he's about to be trapped in an explosion/hit is a decent indicator that he's not immortal.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Powder

http://i67.tinypic.com/2i7tq1x.png
http://www.cartoonaday.com/images/ca...on-390x220.jpg

So...hang on...what you're saying is he likes making posts about Krang?

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Yes, he's dead. That was the intent for the final episode of the series. There were no plans to create another season and that was the final closure.

You're wasting your time with Andrew, he wants to rant but he doesn't want to listen.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"Show, don't tell," is the adage. What did we ever see him do in real-time on the show, even if "off camera"? To establish him as this big threat?

I can't believe you're even asking this question. Krang is a war criminal, he has a giant armoured tank that can annihilate human life, he leads fleets of Rock Soldiers into conquering and destroying worlds, there are resistance groups setup to try and stop him but most are failing, how is he not a threat?!

Look I know you don't consider the Fred Wolf cartoon worthy in any way but you have to face facts: Krang was a threat! For that matter as was Bebop and Rocksteady, sorry to disappoint you there but it's true.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I can't believe you're even asking this question. Krang is a war criminal, he has a giant armoured tank that can annihilate human life, he leads fleets of Rock Soldiers into conquering and destroying worlds, there are resistance groups setup to try and stop him but most are failing, how is he not a threat?!

Look I know you don't consider the Fred Wolf cartoon worthy in any way but you have to face facts: Krang was a threat! For that matter as was Bebop and Rocksteady, sorry to disappoint you there but it's true.

He's not a threat because he is (literally) a spineless weakling, his "giant armoured tank" was nearly always stuck somewhere, quickly defeated when it wasn't and the "resistance groups" that we are teenage rebels who "resist" by not actively participating in a war. Not to mention his inability to even accomplish small goals.

It doesn't matter what we're told if it goes against what we actually see, for all we know Krang wasn't nearly as important in Dimension X as he.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by neatoman

He's not a threat because he is (literally) a spineless weakling, his "giant armoured tank" was nearly always stuck somewhere, quickly defeated when it wasn't and the "resistance groups" that we are teenage rebels who "resist" by not actively participating in a war. Not to mention his inability to even accomplish small goals.

It doesn't matter what we're told if it goes against what we actually see, for all we know Krang wasn't nearly as important in Dimension X as he.

The technodrome rolled over buildings and mountains. They were never able to destroy it until way later. That's how powerful it was.

He's accomplished much if he was able to build one of the most formidable machines that can remain in good condition within lava, ice, water and even stuck in a black hole.

It's mostly Shredder and Bebop and Rocksteady that mess up his plans. He would have already ruled the world long ago. Especially in the season 3 finale where he was minutes away from having his Rock Soldiers destroying multiple cities.

I don't know why it has to matter whether we personally see him doing things or not. A guy who has a large army, has ruled quite a bit of territory and has destroyed planets, like Beserko's world, shows this guy is not incompetent. Just had to deal with incompetent people.

[Yabuturtle]

I also find it odd that Krang isn't an enemy to Subprime. Shouldn't Krang be a little angry at the fact that his robot body was taken away from him and he was banished, and by his cousin no less? And it's because he's incompetent even though he's done things that are on the contrary? In the episode it's never explained why he has his own Technodrome and rock soldiers, but seeing as we put two and two together, with Krang not wanting to serve anyone, having his own army and being banished after conquering large territories of Dimension X, heavily implies he was banished because he was too much of a threat.

He was glad to be back and with his cousin but if you ask me, he should have been angry and resentful for being banished in the first place.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

I also find it odd that Krang isn't an enemy to Subprime. Shouldn't Krang be a little angry at the fact that his robot body was taken away from him and he was banished, and by his cousin no less? And it's because he's incompetent even though he's done things that are on the contrary? In the episode it's never explained why he has his own Technodrome and rock soldiers, but seeing as we put two and two together, with Krang not wanting to serve anyone, having his own army and being banished after conquering large territories of Dimension X, heavily implies he was banished because he was too much of a threat.

He was glad to be back and with his cousin but if you ask me, he should have been angry and resentful for being banished in the first place.

Time to flex my theory muscle.

I found those things odd too at first and as a result, I did an analysis of all the FW episodes to determine when Transdimensional Turtles takes place. It had to be in a time which made sense of Krang's situation with the technodrome, his behaviour towards Subprime and his obsession with the Turtles. The final result I got was that the crossover takes place between the final season 7 episode "Shredder Triumphant" and the first episode of season 8 "Get Shredder".

Now let me explain:

1. In the crossover, Krang contacted Subprime because he wanted access to Dimension X. However, from the perspective of most of the original cartoon, this doesn't make sense since he always had access to Dimension X via the technodrome/Transdimensional portal. So it would logically follow that Krang would contact Subprime during a time when his access to Dimension X was cut off, and this would perfectly fit in with the time when Krang was on earth, seperated from the technodrome and thus, any means of dimensional travel.

2. Krang's behaviour towards Subprime would also then make sense, since Krang is stripped of his resources and the best way to get more is to act nice towards Subprime. If he doesn't act like a goody good, Subprime won't give him access to his technodrome in Dimension X and banish him again so Krang has to play by the rules if he is to be in power again. Krang was probably still angry and resentful from the inside because Subprime banished him before and stripped him off his mutant reptile body but he knew that showing his anger would only make things worse for him.

3. Krang's behaviour towards the turtles in the crossover seemed a little off when comparing it to him throughout most of the original series, but there have been moments where you can be argue he would become turtle obsessed. For e.g. After Shredder Triumphant, Krang is visibly upset and irritated at the fact that the turtles have not only defeated him, but completely cut him off from the technodrome which has never happened before. That, on top of the fact that Krang has been enduring defeats for 7 seasons makes it likely he finally snapped in Transdimensional Turtles and abandoned all of his goals in favour of destroying all the turtle realities. It can be compared to how Lord Dregg started out as a conquerer in season 9 who didn't care much about the turtles but by the end of season 10 was obsessed with the turtles to such an extent it led to his death.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Krang had problems with reaching Dimension X by late-season 3, before the Big-trilogy.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Krang had problems with reaching Dimension X by late-season 3, before the Big-trilogy.

True, but he still had the technodrome at that time, while during Transdimensional Turtles it was in Dimension X even when Krang was banished back to 2D Earth, leaving him without it.

I think it makes far more sense for Krang to ask Subprime for help when he had nothing after season 7, rather than during season 3 when he still believed he could succeed with nothing but the technodrome.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

He's not a threat because he is (literally) a spineless weakling, his "giant armoured tank" was nearly always stuck somewhere, quickly defeated when it wasn't and the "resistance groups" that we are teenage rebels who "resist" by not actively participating in a war. Not to mention his inability to even accomplish small goals.

It doesn't matter what we're told if it goes against what we actually see, for all we know Krang wasn't nearly as important in Dimension X as he.

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

The technodrome rolled over buildings and mountains. They were never able to destroy it until way later. That's how powerful it was.

He's accomplished much if he was able to build one of the most formidable machines that can remain in good condition within lava, ice, water and even stuck in a black hole.

It's mostly Shredder and Bebop and Rocksteady that mess up his plans. He would have already ruled the world long ago. Especially in the season 3 finale where he was minutes away from having his Rock Soldiers destroying multiple cities.

In response to these two different views I want to add that to be fair Krang stole the Technodrome. He never figured out how to really utilise it. Krang was making it up as he went along but yeah for what you say is a 'spineless weakling' he was a real threat inside a powerful robotic body, controlling a massive tank with an army behind him.

In regards to the whole "well if I can't see it on screen it didn't happen" argument sometimes what isn't seen makes someone a greater threat to the audience than what we do witness first hand.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

In "Shredder Triumphant", Krang swapped his android body's hands for an axe and threatened to butcher Splinter.

Was that the only fight between Krang and Splinter?