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Old 11-09-2018, 07:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Leolead View Post
What part of my post makes you think I'm trolling? I'm not.
Because you appear to be the sum of every liberal ideal ever, a caricature of all tropes thereof. You can't be real.
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:15 PM   #42
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Ah, "right side of history"...I love lefty cliches.


You are either a troll or in dire need of some psychological help.

What I love about lefties and righties - neither side contain even an ounce of original thought. They always talk like some pre-programmed bots. Which gives an idea of what kind of people they are and how strong and thought out their convictions. I was thinking pretty much like that, when I was 15. But it seems idea of young people being mentally stuck in their childhood is actually true.
Would you elaborate? Why am I either a troll or in need of mental help? What part of what I am I saying is so ridiculous and outrageous to you -- that you would classify me as insane?

You seem to be a moderate.. So I'll just say this. I have seen how minorities and women feel about Trump. I have seen what he has done to our society, how he has emboldened the worst in many people. I have seen him roll back protections for the LGBTQ community, I have seen this president attack the Press simply for doing their job, even wanting to ban them from asking him question even though it is written into our constitution etc etc. Why should I not feel the way I do? I still have a hard time wrapping my head around how anyone could support such a vile human being. And it just so happens that many of the "good ol' boys" who do support this man, have much more sinister motives for doing so.

Maybe If you actually talk to the people being affected by Trump's policies like I have, you wouldn't be so quick to call me a troll or an insane person.
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
Because you appear to be the sum of every liberal ideal ever, a caricature of all tropes thereof. You can't be real.
There are already a few conservative caricatures as well, at least this mixes things up instead of everyone patting their backs now that PC is gone.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:23 PM   #44
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There are already a few conservative caricatures as well, at least this mixes things up instead of everyone patting their backs now that PC is gone.
You're not wrong about the former, but who has been patting their back about PC being gone? Beyond her reporting everything I rather miss her.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:34 PM   #45
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I meant it's now more of an echo chamber now that she's gone.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:53 PM   #46
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I love it when people use phrases like "being on the right side of history" because it smartens me up on who not to get into a conversation with.

Mean, early-20s is a magical time. Life hasn't fully kicked your ass yet, so there's still all that fire in your belly and you spend half your time talking about "saving the world". Good times.

Then a few rough years later you finally figure out that it takes all your energy to "survive" the world, let alone try and save it. And you look back and chuckle at all the idealist Liberal Arts and Sociology majors a few years behind you, who are going to have a litter of kittens the first time they get fired for calling out of work with the flu, because they've never actually experienced any injustice or been treated unfairly, they've only read about it. And they know how to rant about how unfair it all is, but they don't know how to deal with it or learn from it. Which is the important stuff.

I find that the younger you are when you sh*tcan the idealist stuff and invest heavily in self-interest, the less bitter you'll be once you hit nursing home age. For one thing, you don't spend half your life demanding people hand you stuff, and then stomping around when they don't. Saves a lot of energy, which can in turn be spent making money. Money will actually improve your life; political screeds and protesting will not do this, they will only ruin your credit, job prospects, and/or get you arrested, none of which will bode well for any future employment.

Most people realize this eventually, but for some it takes a very long time. Sad. They create so many more problems for themselves, quite needlessly.
-----------------------------

I don't follow Trump's "policies" very closely, myself. But I will say, whichever policy it is that has people with more expendable income all of a sudden, which they in turn use to spend on things like gym memberships, personal training, and tickets to wrestling shows? I'm a big fan of whichever policy that is. I'm doing quite well at the moment, so I personally can't relate to whatever anyone's bugging about. Sh*t's probably fine.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:48 PM   #47
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What part of my post makes you think I'm trolling? I'm not. I rarely ever post anymore as life has been pretty busy for me the last few years. So why would I come back to troll you guys? I am 100% serious. And I'm just trying to explain to you all how Trump has made things wayyy more complicated. With everything he has done, it is impossible to separate someone who routinely votes for him and is the REASON why he is able to do these things, from the person itself.
You basically want some justification to call everyone who are disagreeing with you nazies, so in

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You talked about good guys and bad guys but it clear to most reasonable people WHO the bad guys are today. And it's not the people who want safer gun laws and protections for our planet (Democrats) Trump has unleashed a side of this country and a people you read about in History class.
Oh, please.
It's like lefties are completely sane.

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I'm glad that the Democrats have some level of control over Congress back. Hopefully they can stop him from banning Trans people from serving in the military, as well as locking children up in cages.
LOL.
You need to update your "lefty manual for dummies": children were put in the cages since your beloved Obama reign and why army need trans people exactly? It's like army is short on unstable individuals as it is...

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Would you elaborate? Why am I either a troll or in need of mental help? What part of what I am I saying is so ridiculous and outrageous to you -- that you would classify me as insane?
Because, if someone speaks only in cliches, than this person can't be for real or have very little to say for themselves.

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You seem to be a moderate.. So I'll just say this. I have seen how minorities and women feel about Trump. I have seen what he has done to our society, how he has emboldened the worst in many people. I have seen him roll back protections for the LGBTQ community, I have seen this president attack the Press simply for doing their job, even wanting to ban them from asking him question even though it is written into our constitution etc etc. Why should I not feel the way I do? I still have a hard time wrapping my head around how anyone could support such a vile human being. And it just so happens that many of the "good ol' boys" who do support this man, have much more sinister motives for doing so.
Trump is not the cause.
He is a mere symptom of divided society, where both sides went so far up their asses, that it had become impossible for them to reconcile and find any rational solution for the problems.
Instead they are constantly engage in finger-pointing, fear-mongering, virtue signaling and shouting who is the most "fair and just", instead of trying to find some common ground.
To be honest it is mostly the same in my country, but it was engineered by our leaders, in US it seems - it's mostly a natural evolution.

So no matter, how you feel about Trump - he is not the reason of all of this. With him or without him, society will remain divided. And if you really care about future of your country, you should think about how to unite society, and not how to punish and persecute Trump supporters and establish some kind of "enlightened democratic one-party dictatorship".

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Maybe If you actually talk to the people being affected by Trump's policies like I have, you wouldn't be so quick to call me a troll or an insane person.
I've seen some responses: most people are OK and some are even doing better than before. People who are crying about problems, are mostly engage in the fear-mongering, which makes it look like US occupied by Nazies and SS troops are marching on the streets and people are rounded in the concentration camps.

Last edited by Sumac; 11-09-2018 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11-10-2018, 05:31 AM   #48
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why army need trans people exactly? It's like army is short on unstable individuals as it is...
This is a highly controversial opinion, but here goes: That's a distraction/complication that the military doesn't need, and won't do anyone any good, especially the marginalized people fighting to be included.

The amount of rape and assault cases within the military is already astronomical, and military types are STRONGLY opposed to anyone they see as "Other", which to a degree makes sense because when part of your job function is to mentally divide people into "Us" and "Them", you're unavoidably going to carry around some prejudice. But given the potential for abuse, coupled with the amount of abuse we already KNOW exists, it makes me strongly question why certain groups would even want to participate. Because they "have the right"? Okay, but WHY bother? It's NOT going to end well because you're never going to "clean up" the culture.

To clarify, I have the same issue insofar as even women serving in the military, for the same reason: You're gonna get raped or abused, it's almost a statistical certainty. Is it right? Absolutely not. Can it be prevented? Yeah, by not signing up and doing something else with your life, once you're involved you're kind of already in too deep.

I'm all for people's right to do whatever they want to in life, but at the same time, I feel like people need to be realistic about the Upside vs. Downside of their life choices. I feel like women, homosexuals, and trans people should be able to work where they feel like, BUT, at the same time I think getting involved in certain areas, like military service, isn't worth the risk or the hassle. They'd be better served letting go of that particular crusade rather than trying to force change onto a culture that really isn't going to ever fully accommodate them.

I feel like some of it is more, "I have the right to do this, and am making a larger point", rather than, "This is the best life and career decision I personally can make for myself." Okay, fine, but when the downside includes being raped or gang-beaten... well, sometimes you should pick your battles more carefully.

Again, not a popular opinion, but it comes from a good place. People who are highly at-risk for abuse shouldn't fight for the right to immerse themselves into an abusive culture like military or law enforcement. Not unless they're fully prepared for the horrible sh*t that's almost certainly going to happen to them. I'd just as soon see it NOT happen to them in the first place. But that's me.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:14 PM   #49
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This thread has been fantastic.

Oh, and a little history lesson: The past 4 presidents lost more congressional seats during their first midterm than Trump. This wasn't a blue wave. It was a blue puddle.
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:36 PM   #50
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Well the Democrats did at least. But not the Bushes. The younger actually gained seats in his first midterm.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:00 AM   #51
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Considering the previous four presidents all started with more seats to begin with than Trump, then it isn't really surprising that odds were they'd lose more during the midterms. Aside from Dubya, but that was the 9/11 bounce.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:59 AM   #52
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This is a highly controversial opinion, but here goes: That's a distraction/complication that the military doesn't need, and won't do anyone any good, especially the marginalized people fighting to be included.
The trans thing seems pretty cut and dry. If you need to take something (in this case hormones) in order to be "Normal" You and not Super Unhappy/Suicidal/Depressed You, that makes you a liability in the military. What if you're cut off behind enemy lines and you can't get your dose of hormones for days/weeks at a time? And who has to pay for these hormones for you?
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:41 AM   #53
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Well the Democrats did at least. But not the Bushes. The younger actually gained seats in his first midterm.
Probably bc of 9/11. other wise he mostly likely would have lost seats imo.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:11 AM   #54
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Considering the previous four presidents all started with more seats to begin with than Trump, then it isn't really surprising that odds were they'd lose more during the midterms. Aside from Dubya, but that was the 9/11 bounce.
... They lost A LOT more when they had ever so SLIGHTLY more. It wasn't like they had a supermajority.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:17 PM   #55
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Politics is a lot like sports. People tend to wholeheartedly support their "team" and are willing to fight to the death over it, regardless of facts or individuals. They likely have a strong opinion on Ford vs. Chevy, as well. I assume they've adapted this way of thinking from their parents or their public school or maybe just their geographical location. It kind of makes me perpetually feel like Jane Goodall.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:22 PM   #56
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The Democrats are still a right winged party, but at least they have less creepy old crazy pants among their ranks, so I don't see a problem with how this election went.
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Old 11-16-2018, 01:03 PM   #57
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Politics is a lot like sports. People tend to wholeheartedly support their "team" and are willing to fight to the death over it, regardless of facts or individuals. They likely have a strong opinion on Ford vs. Chevy, as well. I assume they've adapted this way of thinking from their parents or their public school or maybe just their geographical location. It kind of makes me perpetually feel like Jane Goodall.
Sort of. But people ask me, "How did you go so far right?" And I'm like, "What? I haven't moved at all. It's the left that moved into crazy town leaving me -- by default -- much further into the 'right' territory. I've been standing in the same place the whole time."
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #58
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Sort of. But people ask me, "How did you go so far right?" And I'm like, "What? I haven't moved at all. It's the left that moved into crazy town leaving me -- by default -- much further into the 'right' territory. I've been standing in the same place the whole time."
I've never believed in teams either. I vote for the person whom I believe will do the best job when they're in the position of power to do so.
And as far as social issues are concerned, I agree with liberals on just about everything. Abortion? Go for it. Gay? Awesome. Trans? Fabulous. I follow the non-aggression principle. You're free to do what you like so long as what you like doesn't harm anyone else.
On the flipside. As far as economics and monetary policy go, I've always believed in less taxes and less governmental interference.

To me, The left has gone crazy. Equating jokes with violence and saying that comedians should be no-platformed... that's stuff right out of 1984. The way they try to thought-police everyone is disturbing to say the least. The left has done a good job of conflating racism with the Republicans, though, and it's not like the right has done themselves any favors with some of their more... shall we say 'traditional' beliefs about the family.

Life is way, WAY to nuanced and complicated for it to be boiled down to right v. left. The way people vote down one side or the other nowadays is downright disturbing. They're not actually thinking about the person they're voting for. They're just thinking about belonging on a team and 'being on the right side of history' -- whatever that idiotic tagline is supposed to mean.

I'm an issues guy. I vote on the issues, not the party.

Honestly, the reason I voted for Trump, despite not being his biggest fan, was because during the election one person was talking about potential war with Russia and the other wasn't. Trump, a life long liberal, sounded more... I want to say measured when it came to Russia than Hillary. He's not perfect, but he is better than her. Now... if it had come down between Trump and Sanders? I probably would've voted for Sanders as he approached gun control with a modicum of sanity. Oh, and Bernie didn't call black people 'super predators'.

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Old 11-16-2018, 02:42 PM   #59
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I've never believed in teams either. I vote for the person whom I believe will do the best job when they're in the position of power to do so.
And as far as social issues are concerned, I agree with liberals on just about everything. Abortion? Go for it. Gay? Awesome. Trans? Fabulous. I follow the non-aggression principle. You're free to do what you like so long as what you like doesn't harm anyone else.
Abortion do the exact opposite of that sentiment or should say the 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions do. But honestly that a pretty good motto or idea to live by when it comes social issues.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:44 PM   #60
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Abortion do the exact opposite of that sentiment or should say the 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions do. But honestly that a pretty good motto or idea to live by when it comes social issues.
Look, if a woman is stupid enough to carry a baby that long and still want an abortion she is probably doin' the world a favor by terminating and not putting her genes into the mix.

I've been with my fair share of the broads, and I've never gotten any of them pregnant. Condoms aren't expensive, and the good ol' catholic method is good in a pinch. Rocket science it aint.

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