The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > TMNT Comic Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2018, 03:38 PM   #21
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
She'd fit in as the leader if she wanted to take them in another direction. Who else is there? Ray and Herman are Hob's stooges, Sally is cool but she's a follower, not a leader... It'd be fun to see Alopex forced to lead a bunch of other mutated animals like herself, especially if they go up against Null's forces.
Ray and Herman siding with Hob doesn't make them random stooges. As a matter of fact, Ray has shown himself to be arguably the most capable member of the entire Mutanimals. I don't see the correlation between doing the shady work with your boss and not being a capable leader.

Sally's shown to, in a way, be the spiritual core of the Mutanimals several times already. The fact that she wasn't in opportunities to really show off her leadership skills doesn't mean she doesn't have any. I mean, Hell, the same logic could be applied to Alopex. She has shown literally no emotional attachment to the Mutanimals, she's shown no leadership skills, etc. Both Ray and Sally are way better choices at this point.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 04:52 PM   #22
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet View Post
Ray and Herman siding with Hob doesn't make them random stooges. As a matter of fact, Ray has shown himself to be arguably the most capable member of the entire Mutanimals. I don't see the correlation between doing the shady work with your boss and not being a capable leader.

Sally's shown to, in a way, be the spiritual core of the Mutanimals several times already. The fact that she wasn't in opportunities to really show off her leadership skills doesn't mean she doesn't have any. I mean, Hell, the same logic could be applied to Alopex. She has shown literally no emotional attachment to the Mutanimals, she's shown no leadership skills, etc. Both Ray and Sally are way better choices at this point.
Not "random", no, but they're definitely his henchmen, there to follow orders.

Sally's the spiritual core, the same role Mikey plays for the Turtles. Could you see Mikey being the leader over Leo? Alopex has displayed empathy towards other mutants' (ie, Zodi and Krisa, with mixed results) plight while at the same time being against a militaristic approach to mutantkind (ie, when she refused to join the Mutanimals under Hob, which she perceived as an army). Add both those traits and you get the right character to lead the team away from their goal of taking down humanity, and more towards becoming actual freedom fighters for exploited or abused mutants everywhere. Which, in turn, puts them on a collision course with Null. And it's great character development for her.
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 05:52 PM   #23
Utrommaniac
Resident overthinker
 
Utrommaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Back in Texas
Posts: 4,643
Yeah, I could see Alopex as being more of a "mascot" than a leader.
__________________
Utrommaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 07:14 PM   #24
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utrommaniac View Post
Yeah, I could see Alopex as being more of a "mascot" than a leader.
She'll never amount to much of a character that way. I could see her being the activist to Hob's militarist. Not to mention the Mutanimals already have a mascot in Pete, a heart in Sally, etc. (Look at us, passionately arguing plot points that will never even come to pass! Haha!)
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 08:15 PM   #25
Utrommaniac
Resident overthinker
 
Utrommaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Back in Texas
Posts: 4,643
Oh, I know how that is, I say glaringly at Krang backstory elements that don't connect or make sense.


I had actually forgotten that Hob and Alopex had met...
__________________
Utrommaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 08:42 PM   #26
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utrommaniac View Post
Oh, I know how that is, I say glaringly at Krang backstory elements that don't connect or make sense.

I had actually forgotten that Hob and Alopex had met...
That's the magic of this comic! Waiting for new issues is a drag but at least speculating is half the fun!

The only mutants Hob hasn't met are Karai's posse and Null's mutants. I look forward to seeing how he'll react to those in due time.
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 11:11 PM   #27
daggio
Random Punk
 
daggio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Greenwich, CT
Posts: 15
Since this Macro takes place after "Battle Lines", it should be interesting to see if Bishop is using some new cybernetic body or he's just being completely himself. If that's the case (that he'll be walking around without the use of a cyborg), I might have flashbacks to the Brain from "Pinky and the Brain".
daggio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 02:59 AM   #28
Utrommaniac
Resident overthinker
 
Utrommaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Back in Texas
Posts: 4,643
Unless he doesn't have a spare body lying around...I'd say maybe not?
__________________
Utrommaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 08:12 AM   #29
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
Not "random", no, but they're definitely his henchmen, there to follow orders.

Sally's the spiritual core, the same role Mikey plays for the Turtles. Could you see Mikey being the leader over Leo? Alopex has displayed empathy towards other mutants' (ie, Zodi and Krisa, with mixed results) plight while at the same time being against a militaristic approach to mutantkind (ie, when she refused to join the Mutanimals under Hob, which she perceived as an army). Add both those traits and you get the right character to lead the team away from their goal of taking down humanity, and more towards becoming actual freedom fighters for exploited or abused mutants everywhere. Which, in turn, puts them on a collision course with Null. And it's great character development for her.
Of course they're his henchmen. They're a part of his mutant army. That, in no way, makes them any less capable as leaders. As a matter of fact, being so closely involved with Hob's operations just makes them BETTER leaders.

You mentioned that Sally was the spiritual core of the Mutanimals and that's why she shouldn't lead, because she doesn't have the traits of a leader. Then you listed traits that Alopex has shown, empathy and striving for actual freedom fighting... both of which would be traits of someone serving as a spiritual core. COULD Alopex serve as a good leader? Sure. But Sally, Ray and even Herman are WAY better choices at the moment.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 08:35 AM   #30
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet View Post
Of course they're his henchmen. They're a part of his mutant army. That, in no way, makes them any less capable as leaders. As a matter of fact, being so closely involved with Hob's operations just makes them BETTER leaders.

You mentioned that Sally was the spiritual core of the Mutanimals and that's why she shouldn't lead, because she doesn't have the traits of a leader. Then you listed traits that Alopex has shown, empathy and striving for actual freedom fighting... both of which would be traits of someone serving as a spiritual core. COULD Alopex serve as a good leader? Sure. But Sally, Ray and even Herman are WAY better choices at the moment.
Mondo is his henchman too. Would you pick him to lead?

How many times has Sally been in the front lines? You don't take the getaway man into the bank during the robbery, or put the eleventh hour cavalry inside the fort. That's part of why she's not the best choice for leader, for someone who needs to be there and actually lead from the thick of it.

If things go as I foresee them going for the Mutanimals in the near future, then they'll need a hard swerve away from Hob's mindset and goals afterwards. Ray and Herman aren't distanced enough from him to provide that, and Sally just isn't enough. At least I don't think so. Would be happy to be proven wrong, and after all, this is the writers' world, we just live in it.
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 08:57 AM   #31
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
Mondo is his henchman too. Would you pick him to lead?

How many times has Sally been in the front lines? You don't take the getaway man into the bank during the robbery, or put the eleventh hour cavalry inside the fort. That's part of why she's not the best choice for leader, for someone who needs to be there and actually lead from the thick of it.

If things go as I foresee them going for the Mutanimals in the near future, then they'll need a hard swerve away from Hob's mindset and goals afterwards. Ray and Herman aren't distanced enough from him to provide that, and Sally just isn't enough. At least I don't think so. Would be happy to be proven wrong, and after all, this is the writers' world, we just live in it.
You seem to misunderstand. My argument isn't that, because Ray and Herman are his henchmen, they're better suited as leaders. It's that them being his henchmen doesn't make them incapable to step up as leaders. No, being involved with the boss' work doesn't instantly make you leader material but it sure doesn't hurt. You were the one who brought up them being henchmen.

Sally not having that many opportunities to show herself as leader material doesn't mean she isn't cut for it. As a matter of fact, I'd say, from what we've seen, things are pointing towards her being more than up for the task. And, back to us not having seen her in action that many times before- we haven't seen Alopex fighting alongside the Mutanimals either. Just because the plot hasn't demanded it yet doesn't mean it won't, that's true, but it also proves my point.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 09:19 AM   #32
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet View Post
You seem to misunderstand. My argument isn't that, because Ray and Herman are his henchmen, they're better suited as leaders. It's that them being his henchmen doesn't make them incapable to step up as leaders. No, being involved with the boss' work doesn't instantly make you leader material but it sure doesn't hurt. You were the one who brought up them being henchmen.

Sally not having that many opportunities to show herself as leader material doesn't mean she isn't cut for it. As a matter of fact, I'd say, from what we've seen, things are pointing towards her being more than up for the task. And, back to us not having seen her in action that many times before- we haven't seen Alopex fighting alongside the Mutanimals either. Just because the plot hasn't demanded it yet doesn't mean it won't, that's true, but it also proves my point.
No, what I mean is that they're too entrenched in Hob's ideals - having worked as his henchmen and confidants from the get-go - to be the change the Mutanimals need after what's coming. Sure, they're great soldiers and the team's heavy hitters now that Slash is gone, but having either of them as the leader would be the same as having Hob himself.

IDW have a tendency to surprise us with plot twists. One of the Mutanimals rising to the role of leader wouldn't be much of one, that's perfectly expected in most circumstances. But Alopex as head of the Mutanimals would be just as much of a twist as Splinter leading the Foot; she has displayed the empathy towards other mutants like I said, and her arc has slowly moved her from (literally) custom-made henchman to rogue warrior to finding a place with other mutants. There's a very logical next step for her to take here, and the alternative AFAWK would be to continue in the periphery of the plot like she has been for the last couple dozen issues. Not ideal by any means. Speaking of which, I wonder if Hob will be imprisoned rather than killed after his plan fails... A mutant prison, say, on Burnow Island, could be an interesting (and novel) concept. The Turtles have expressed doubt as to what to do with Leatherhead as well...
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 09:42 AM   #33
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
No, what I mean is that they're too entrenched in Hob's ideals - having worked as his henchmen and confidants from the get-go - to be the change the Mutanimals need after what's coming. Sure, they're great soldiers and the team's heavy hitters now that Slash is gone, but having either of them as the leader would be the same as having Hob himself.

IDW have a tendency to surprise us with plot twists. One of the Mutanimals rising to the role of leader wouldn't be much of one, that's perfectly expected in most circumstances. But Alopex as head of the Mutanimals would be just as much of a twist as Splinter leading the Foot; she has displayed the empathy towards other mutants like I said, and her arc has slowly moved her from (literally) custom-made henchman to rogue warrior to finding a place with other mutants. There's a very logical next step for her to take here, and the alternative AFAWK would be to continue in the periphery of the plot like she has been for the last couple dozen issues. Not ideal by any means. Speaking of which, I wonder if Hob will be imprisoned rather than killed after his plan fails... A mutant prison, say, on Burnow Island, could be an interesting (and novel) concept. The Turtles have expressed doubt as to what to do with Leatherhead as well...
Who's to say Ray (or Herman, but I wouldn't put him as the leader) wouldn't draw a line? What these characters would do in these hypothetical scenarios we don't know the details of depends on a lot of factors. How would Old Hob even be 'overthrown'? Would the Mutanimals turn against him? Would there be a civil war among them? I'd say we genuinely don't know enough to jump to conclusions at this point.

I do get your point, though. Even if Ray was less radical than Old Hob, it still wouldn't be enough of a change now, would it? I'd still say Sally would be a far better choice than Alopex nonetheless, but who knows.

However, I don't think the leadership of the Mutanimals is that big of a deal. They're a family, and, frankly, while them changing their direction would surely be interesting, I don't think it'd be THAT big of a deal. Not even comparable to Splinter taking over the Foot Clan, as that, quite literally, turned the entire TMNT universe on its head, it made the TURTLES the major powerhouse, it changed everything.

Lastly, I disagree with the idea that they're going to overthrow Hob. Character development is a thing ever so present in IDW TMNT and he should be the best example of it. I'd say it'd be MUCH more compelling if Hob gave up on the war and managed to forgive the humans for everything they've done to Mutants, to himself, to Slash.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 09:48 AM   #34
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet View Post
Who's to say Ray (or Herman, but I wouldn't put him as the leader) wouldn't draw a line? What these characters would do in these hypothetical scenarios we don't know the details of depends on a lot of factors. How would Old Hob even be 'overthrown'? Would the Mutanimals turn against him? Would there be a civil war among them? I'd say we genuinely don't know enough to jump to conclusions at this point.

(...)

Lastly, I disagree with the idea that they're going to overthrow Hob. Character development is a thing ever so present in IDW TMNT and he should be the best example of it. I'd say it'd be MUCH more compelling if Hob gave up on the war and managed to forgive the humans for everything they've done to Mutants, to himself, to Slash.
Not overthrown, no, but the Turtles will probably have to take Hob down for whatever it is he tries to do next. It's very, very likely that he will be done as their leader in the near future, after he tries to enact his war-on-humans plan and obviously fails. It might even happen in the course of City at War. But I fully expect the Mutanimals to go on afterwards, and for that they'll need a new leader. The whole team will need an ideological hard swerve after that. That's the point of this whole mental exercise I've been doing.
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 10:08 AM   #35
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
Not overthrown, no, but the Turtles will probably have to take Hob down for whatever it is he tries to do next. It's very, very likely that he will be done as their leader in the near future, after he tries to enact his war-on-humans plan and obviously fails. It might even happen in the course of City at War. But I fully expect the Mutanimals to go on afterwards, and for that they'll need a new leader. The whole team will need an ideological hard swerve after that. That's the point of this whole mental exercise I've been doing.
As I said, I'd still much prefer if they let Hob grow out of his kill all humans phase and for him to stay the 'leader'. Though I wouldn't even call him the leader, just the dad guy.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 10:13 AM   #36
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet View Post
As I said, I'd still much prefer if they let Hob grow out of his kill all humans phase and for him to stay the 'leader'. Though I wouldn't even call him the leader, just the dad guy.
I wouldn't be opposed to that, but it's just not in his character. Especially not now that the once pacifist Slash gave him the go-ahead to begin his crusade. Even in defeat, or especially in the face of it, Hob has always had the tendency to lash out viciously. Someone will have to put him down when all is said and done, for someone else's sake. My money's on either Raph or Splinter.
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 10:22 AM   #37
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to that, but it's just not in his character. Especially not now that the once pacifist Slash gave him the go-ahead to begin his crusade. Even in defeat, or especially in the face of it, Hob has always had the tendency to lash out viciously. Someone will have to put him down when all is said and done, for someone else's sake. My money's on either Raph or Splinter.
Hob's went through a lot. Look and what he was like in the first issue. He's got an actual family now. He's got the most potential for growth out of all of the characters, in my opinion.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 12:07 PM   #38
ChosenOne
Mad Scientist
 
ChosenOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet View Post
Hob's went through a lot. Look and what he was like in the first issue. He's got an actual family now. He's got the most potential for growth out of all of the characters, in my opinion.
He (literally) lashed out at Mikey over losing a member of his family, though. And he's about to lash out at the rest of the world in a big, big way. I don't see him just being talked down after everything that's happened. I agree he has a lot of potential, but he's been amping up his anger over time, not reducing it.
ChosenOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 01:33 PM   #39
Utrommaniac
Resident overthinker
 
Utrommaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Back in Texas
Posts: 4,643
Yeah, I'm pretty excited for to see what's next for Hob, after everything he's already been through.
__________________
Utrommaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 01:43 PM   #40
Igglet
Foot Soldier
 
Igglet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Serbia
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne View Post
He (literally) lashed out at Mikey over losing a member of his family, though. And he's about to lash out at the rest of the world in a big, big way. I don't see him just being talked down after everything that's happened. I agree he has a lot of potential, but he's been amping up his anger over time, not reducing it.
That's the point, though. You don't just talk the guy into giving up. You don't just have him gradually become friendlier and friendlier with the humans (you could, but it wouldn't really fit this story). Him going further and further down this hole that he's dug for himself and going mad with vengeance, only to eventually reach his most desperate point and realize how far he's sunk and managing to get himself out of there.
Igglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.