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Old 02-19-2018, 07:35 PM   #41
plastroncafe
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Originally Posted by Ninjinister View Post
I hate to say it, but it's really the casuals/non-fans. Yeah, they're the TMNT groups on FB, but they're the same kind of people who refuse to accept a non-Cajun Leatherhead or Casey with short hair.

People who have been "in the game" for the whole length are more "meh" about it on the whole.
Yeah, the No True Scotsman thing isn't going to work.
Wee all look like crap when orders in our fandom do stupid crap like assault creators online.
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There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
That would be me.

After months of basically saying positive things about the show, I dared to say two things I didn't like. Basically I didn't care for Casey's Stupid FacePaint look...and that the Pulverizer was the most useless tmnt character ever invented.

I basically got F Bombed into oblivion and got told to commit suicide by his yes fans.
I'm still rather shocked at how fast that dove tailed.

It was only after that I learned that he'd already been driven mad by Cube who drove him off here. so the over reaction to an opinion made a little more sense.
Even though I shouldn't have to apologize for an opinion, I did anyway after learning all of the hate he was getting from other people, but he was having none of it...and that was it with that.

Suffice it to say, that was the last time I felt the need to interact with any of the new corporate shows creators.
This reminds me of a certain incident. An executive/producer (of the 2k12 TMNT show) cursed out and permanently banned a forum member on Facebook.

Good times. (*sarcasm*)

Last edited by Papenbrook; 02-19-2018 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:31 PM   #43
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Oh lord... Before I came around, I guess. Can both sides just behave maybe...? lol Is it so hard not to harass the creators and others involved? On the other hand, if they go poking around forums and whatnot and can't take the criticism, well they did choose on their own to go stepping into the fire and maybe aught to have avoided it. Kinda goes both ways.

It may be said that they don't owe fans anything, but fans also don't exactly owe show/movie/whatever creators anything either.

But fans are going to be passionate about things they love and are going to have an opinion, no stopping that.



I own that I have some strong opinions and concerns right now, and I think justified considering some of the bigger, and kinda cruddy sounding, changes have been aimed right at my boy... Doesn't mean I won't "give it a chance" though. More than likely I'll watch, even if just in hopes they'll straighten that out... (Or at best to just see what levels of ridiculous they can reach and enjoy the discussions that will no doubt happen.)

Right now I'm just there watching any move like...



Yeah I see you.


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Side note... watch THIS one actually get somewhere in the Kid's Choice Awards, while 2012 kept losing to the Sponge.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:48 PM   #44
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Don't be an a**hole to people. The show will speak for itself. Things that have to constantly defend themselves as part of their publicity are fighting an uphill battle that they know they are losing. This happened with the 2014/16 movies, and it's currently happening with Star Trek Discovery. Rise of the TMNT appears to be on the same path.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:56 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Roseangelo View Post
Don't be an a**hole to people. The show will speak for itself. Things that have to constantly defend themselves as part of their publicity are fighting an uphill battle that they know they are losing. This happened with the 2014/16 movies, and it's currently happening with Star Trek Discovery. Rise of the TMNT appears to be on the same path.
Well said. I came here to say something similar. We saw the exact same thing with the Platinum Dunes movies, Justice League, etc.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:57 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roseangelo View Post
Don't be an a**hole to people. The show will speak for itself. Things that have to constantly defend themselves as part of their publicity are fighting an uphill battle that they know they are losing. This happened with the 2014/16 movies, and it's currently happening with Star Trek Discovery. Rise of the TMNT appears to be on the same path.
To be fair on social media that happens with anything these days, same with The Last Jedi, all recent Marvel superhero movies, etc.

I don't visit social media so I have no idea what goes on there, but I do think there's a lot of teen fans of 2012 Nick that are causing the backlash too. A lot of kids who grew up with the 2012 version are now teenagers and will resist change to a new series. Reminds us of ourselves when we were teens and we saw various franchises we like change.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:00 PM   #47
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Yeah, the No True Scotsman thing isn't going to work.
Wee all look like crap when orders in our fandom do stupid crap like assault creators online.
You took what I said completely out of context.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:02 PM   #48
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Criticism and flame baiting are nowhere near the same thing, nor should they be treated as the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Ninjinister View Post
You took what I said completely out of context.
How so?
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
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Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
To be fair on social media that happens with anything these days, same with The Last Jedi, all recent Marvel superhero movies, etc.

I don't visit social media so I have no idea what goes on there, but I do think there's a lot of teen fans of 2012 Nick that are causing the backlash too. A lot of kids who grew up with the 2012 version are now teenagers and will resist change to a new series. Reminds us of ourselves when we were teens and we saw various franchises we like change.
I'm not talking generally. I am talking to the people reading this right here. Vegita was an a** to Ciro and that is not acceptable. Yes, there are a**holes somewhere who will say sh*tty, unnecessary things to good people. Buck up and don't be that person. You. Right there. Reading this. Right now.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:09 PM   #50
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How so?
I was making an observation and went out of my way to make a point about how I wasn't criticizing. "Casuals" are actually more important to franchises than the die-hards and everybody's a casual fan of something so I'm not complaining about it. I just have noticed that it is the people who aren't as into it as us - casuals, non-fans, fair-weather fans, whatever - that have been most aggressive about it. But a lot of them are the ones that refused to accept any of the other incarnations or just never paid them any mind. When you see a lot of people post in these groups you tend to remember a name or two. Or, conversely it's like the friends/family/colleagues that don't follow it but like anytime there's any news blurb about the Turtles they tag you in a post about it.

Again, it's just an observation, and I might just have too small of a sample size, but by and large it's not those who have stuck with the series that are the biggest complainers. As Vegita-San said, it's probably because we've seen worse. It's like when people put Shaq Fu in their top 10 worst games ever list. I wouldn't even put it in my top 25 in the genre alone. But that's because most people don't have the frame of reference to compare it to. Think about it... it's never the people who have watched every episode of 87, Next Mutation, 2003, 2012, all six theatrical films, and read every comic who would be complaining about this you-know-what'ing their "childhood". It's those who saw the original cartoon and maybe the first few movies and forgot about Turtles for decades.

But by and large it's the "casuals" or whatever and the kids who actually are going to make or break the cartoon, and if they aren't liking what's being put down, it's not gonna fly. It doesn't matter if we like it or not. I may not have spelled that part out precisely, and that may be my error, but that's the main point I was trying to make - if the GP doesn't like it, it might be in trouble.

But I do feel like my context about how I wasn't trying to be an elitist about it was pretty clear.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:57 PM   #51
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Oh lord... Before I came around, I guess. Can both sides just behave maybe...? lol Is it so hard not to harass the creators and others involved? On the other hand, if they go poking around forums and whatnot and can't take the criticism, well they did choose on their own to go stepping into the fire and maybe aught to have avoided it. Kinda goes both ways.

It may be said that they don't owe fans anything, but fans also don't exactly owe show/movie/whatever creators anything either.

But fans are going to be passionate about things they love and are going to have an opinion, no stopping that.

Bingo. Don't be jerks to people with opinions and they won't be jerks back. don't think you can handle that, don't interact with people. simple as that. And just know not everyone with some criticism is attacking. lots of people loose sight of that fast because they see the hate everywhere else and it piles up in their brain... and I think that's what happened in my case. He probably had a case of hate overload and chose that moment to let loose a little. Lucky me.

Personally, I think show creators are better off not stepping into this lions den of 'fun' that is this fandom with people ripping each other a new one left and right first chance they get.. they'll keep their sanity far faster.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjinister View Post
...

It's like when people put Shaq Fu in their top 10 worst games ever list. I wouldn't even put it in my top 25 in the genre alone. But that's because most people don't have the frame of reference to compare it to. Think about it... it's never the people who have watched every episode of 87, Next Mutation, 2003, 2012, all six theatrical films, and read every comic who would be complaining about this you-know-what'ing their "childhood". It's those who saw the original cartoon and maybe the first few movies and forgot about Turtles for decades.

But by and large it's the "casuals" or whatever and the kids who actually are going to make or break the cartoon, and if they aren't liking what's being put down, it's not gonna fly. It doesn't matter if we like it or not. I may not have spelled that part out precisely, and that may be my error, but that's the main point I was trying to make - if the GP doesn't like it, it might be in trouble.

But I do feel like my context about how I wasn't trying to be an elitist about it was pretty clear.
I can't separate the pejorative term casual from elitism.

Which again brings me back to the no true Scotsman fallacy. If they were real fans, ie in fandom for a specified duration of time, they wouldn't have been upset about something. But since they are they're clearly not real fans.

Someone's a fan if they like a thing.
There's no set To Do List that must be completed before someone is bestowed the moniker of fan.
And anyone who tells you there is, is pulling some gatekeeper nonsense out of their behind.

We have pages and pages of threads on here where people are still but mad about the very idea of Leonardo not being the leader.

Let's face it folks, we fans are miserable people and we have earned our horrible reputation.
Instead of focusing on the aspects of this thing that we say we love, we do nothing but tear it to shreds and crap on people who still find joy in it.

That's sad.
We're sad.

And until we all decide not to be miserable f*cks, it's not going to change.

You don't have to like the new show. In fact if you don't like it chances are good it wasn't made for you.
Go re-read or re-watch your favorite episodes, or get into that whole transformative stuff and write yourself some fanfic.
There is absolutely no need to Yuck another fan's Yum.
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.

Last edited by plastroncafe; 02-19-2018 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:17 PM   #53
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God, I hope so. I do worry that a series (this or any other) could flop and they choose to blame the franchise for not being popular anymore rather than their own choices.


Provided I make it to old age, personally I really hope the franchise outlives me. For this generation to be old and dying off, but know the Turtles still hopefully continue on without us would be pretty cool. Nah, 25 years isn't enough... Wish I could live long enough to see them hit a century, but that ain't gonna happen. My nephew could though.
hey man, I'd like that too, except I'd be sad that I missed whatever the future holds. But i'm sure there will be others to inherit the enjoyment that the TMNT provide.

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No we don't. I mean, you should if you want to venture an opinion... but just keep in mind RotTMNT and it's staff don't owe one thing to 30, 40 year old fans.

fair enough. they owe really nothing to us. I for one, will be giving it a shot as with everything else. I'd say for those that want to skip it, go ahead and skip it.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Let's face it folks, we fans are miserable people and we have earned our horrible reputation.
Instead of focusing on the aspects of this thing that we say we love, we do nothing but tear it to shreds and crap on people who still find joy in it.

That's sad.
We're sad.

And until we all decide not to be miserable f*cks, it's not going to change.

You don't have to like the new show. In fact if you don't like it chances are good it wasn't made for you.
Go re-read or re-watch your favorite episodes, or get into that whole transformative stuff and write yourself some fanfic.
There is absolutely no need to Yuck another fan's Yum.
So much self-hatred and projection...
How about to avoid unnecessary generalization?

Oh wait, generalization is easier than thinking.
And a very good tool to feel good about oneself.

So progressive. So emphatic.
So kind and loving.
I want to vomit.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:48 PM   #55
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It's really very simple and it's being ridiculously overcomplicated. Let me simplify:

Are you an older, existing fan? Like over the age of 25?

Your options:

1. Wait until you see it, voice your opinions to like fans.
2. Watch something else more your demographic. This isn't remotely for you anyway. If you have some idea of "I'm a hardcore TMNT fan for life" then great... enjoy it or don't, but have no illusions about your watching it or possibly buying a toy mattering. Like, at all. Spending decades of loyalty on a thing like children's TMNT cartoons does not give you some secret kick me in the ass award.
3. Say nothing, your opinion does not and should not matter to TPTB about their latest kiddie show.
4. Scream into the abyss. Because no one cares. Except loud, dumb casuals.
5. stfu

Are you within the age of 5-13?

1. Post your opinion everywhere. This show is for you and is being sold to you. TPTB will and should listen to you.
2. Buy toys.
3. Enjoy the show. Or don't. Or watch some other kiddie show, there's plenty. This isn't some special thing.

Last edited by Andrew NDB; 02-19-2018 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Sumac View Post
So much self-hatred and projection...
How about to avoid unnecessary generalization?

Oh wait, generalization is easier than thinking.
And a very good tool to feel good about oneself.

So progressive. So emphatic.
So kind and loving.
I want to vomit.
I'm a fan who's blissfully far away from anything resembling misery, but that would make me Larry
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:50 PM   #57
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* And a boy.

That's an important footnote.
Because if you love this show and you're a girl, talking about how much you like this show could get it cancelled.
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:57 PM   #58
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This looks like it's another one of those threads that Machias will lock and put into the disintegrater unit before long.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:00 AM   #59
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* And a boy.

That's an important footnote.
Because if you love this show and you're a girl, talking about how much you like this show could get it cancelled.
Hmm, its the first time I've heard of anything like that, but each business decision to their own I guess.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic embraced its older male audience and is still a huge success in terms of toy sales, so I think maybe shows aimed at young boys could still be successful in toy sales somehow while having a large female audience maybe? I dunno, but I'm not bothered by it.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:02 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
I can't separate the pejorative term casual from elitism.

Which again brings me back to the no true Scotsman fallacy. If they were real fans, ie in fandom for a specified duration of time, they wouldn't have been upset about something. But since they are they're clearly not real fans.

Someone's a fan if they like a thing.
There's no set To Do List that must be completed before someone is bestowed the moniker of fan.
And anyone who tells you there is, is pulling some gatekeeper nonsense out of their behind.

We have pages and pages of threads on here where people are still but mad about the very idea of Leonardo not being the leader.

Let's face it folks, we fans are miserable people and we have earned our horrible reputation.
Instead of focusing on the aspects of this thing that we say we love, we do nothing but tear it to shreds and crap on people who still find joy in it.

That's sad.
We're sad.

And until we all decide not to be miserable f*cks, it's not going to change.

You don't have to like the new show. In fact if you don't like it chances are good it wasn't made for you.
Go re-read or re-watch your favorite episodes, or get into that whole transformative stuff and write yourself some fanfic.
There is absolutely no need to Yuck another fan's Yum.
With the first one I thought perhaps you just missed my point. Now it's clear that you understood it and you're twisting it for your own gain. Either that or you're just TL;DRing and making assumptions.

Now that is sad.

EDIT: casual isn't a pejorative term unless you make it one. YOU are the one who has done so. I just wrote an entire paragraph about how they're more important to the franchise than the diehards. I obviously have no contempt for them.
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