FW/Mirage Parallels

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

Issue's #2-#8 (especially #8, I'm actually surprised Renet and Savanti never made it onto the show).

No need, and I'm not surprised. A series playing on various science fiction from between the 19th century and late-1980's does it better fixing time travel using technological time machines.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

* Fred Wolf: Four Turtles are raised by Splinter to be heroes (I guess?) for mankind, then occasionally thwart the wacky plans of an interdimensional brain who is Oroku Saki's boss. They never quite succeed. Mostly they putz around randomly encountering scores of goofy mutants, eat a lot of pizza, tell a lot of jokes, and don't have any character arcs or growth at all from the beginning of the show all the way to the end.

Yet, people love it and remember more than Mirage comics.

BTW, what you said about growth is not true - final seasons of the FW series, portray Turtles in more serious and mature light and in the final episode, Splinter graduates them from students.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Yet, people love it and remember more than Mirage comics.

They don't really remember it and saying that people still love it is misleading, most people are only have vague recollections and remember liking it even if they don't know why.

Originally Posted by Sumac

BTW, what you said about growth is not true - final seasons of the FW series, portray Turtles in more serious and mature light and in the final episode, Splinter graduates them from students.

That's kinda ********, they just gave the show a different art style and toned down the so called comedy, nothing important changed.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

They don't really remember it and saying that people still love it is misleading, most people are only have vague recollections and remember liking it even if they don't know why.

Yeah, most people I've ran into really only remember the live-action movies, the toys and the video games.

I've never met anyone not on the internet that had a favorite episode/season, or really anything to say about the actual show at all.

[CyberCubed]

Because for most people TMNT is just a passing fad from their childhood. Same thing you see with people talking about Power Rangers or Pokemon, etc.

A lot of people never stuck with these franchises and just watched the first few years of it when they were kids and moved on and never revisited it. You see this for any long running franchise or kid fad. That's why they barely remember anything about it but the basics like the characters. They couldn't tell you any story details or bring up any episodes because they literally don't know or remember anything about it.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by neatoman

They don't really remember it and saying that people still love it is misleading, most people are only have vague recollections and remember liking it even if they don't know why.

OK, still more people recognize TMNT 80-s, rather than any other version. Which means...basically the same thing.
Is it OK, with you now?

Originally Posted by neatoman

That's kinda ********, they just gave the show a different art style and toned down the so called comedy, nothing important changed.

Yeah, except style, atmosphere, type of storytelling...all those things are nothing important, lol.

Some people in their zealousy are really want to rewrite history. Gladly history doesn't give a single flying **** about such people.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Here's the comparison about ridiculous with Fred Wolf and Mirage on a foundational level;

Fred Wolf -A goofy rhino and warthog, and alien brain-like creature,violent masked vigilante Casey hones, all kinds of weird and wacky aliens, comedic time travel, a mutant gator named leatherhead, and guest star usagi yojimbo.

Mirage-A female lead who's a goofy sketch brought to life, violent masked vigilante Casey Jones, a race of alien brain like creatures, all kinds of weird and wacky aliens, comedic time travel, a mutant gator named leatherhead, and guest star Usagi Yojimbo

So as you can see, the OT concepts on paper aren't just goofy because of presentation in a terrible 30-year old comedy-based cartoon, but Fred Wolf is totally ridiculous when it's core concepts are put side by side with the much more serious Mirage comics....

....

...wait a minute...

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Sumac

OK, still more people recognize TMNT 80-s, rather than any other version. Which means...basically the same thing.
Is it OK, with you now?

Well yeah, because it means they don't really care, they're apathetic to it.

Originally Posted by Sumac

Yeah, except style, atmosphere, type of storytelling...all those things are nothing important, lol.

There was no real development though, the show just kind of stopped being a comedy. It was still about fighting a series incompetent threats.

Originally Posted by Sumac

Some people in their zealousy are really want to rewrite history. Gladly history doesn't give a single flying **** about such people.

I'm not trying to rewrite history, I watched those episodes like half a year ago. It's just the same show trying to be edgier from before in a very superficial way, that's all the Red Sky episodes are.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Some people in their zealousy are really want to rewrite history.

Like David Wise.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

That's kinda ********, they just gave the show a different art style and toned down the so called comedy, nothing important changed.

I call BS on that. New villains with different motives? Different motives for the TMNT? A different universe created means different storytelling? I mean I know you have some hatred of the FW series but you don't really do yourself any favours when you say that type of stuff.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm not trying to rewrite history, I watched those episodes like half a year ago. It's just the same show trying to be edgier from before in a very superficial way, that's all the Red Sky episodes are.

If the Red Sky era succeeds in being as edgy as Season 1 then it was a success. Looking at your posts I really doubt you have watched the 80s cartoon at all. If you did it comes across like you watched it with your eyes open but you hands over your ears.

Originally Posted by Powder

Like David Wise.

I said in another post that David feels very attached to the show, he was the main guy behind it for nine years. Considering how the network treated him I give him a brake when it comes to being a revisionist. If he comes across as territorial and rude regarding his work I put the blame on Harlan Ellison.

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Here's the comparison about ridiculous with Fred Wolf and Mirage on a foundational level;

Fred Wolf -A goofy rhino and warthog, and alien brain-like creature,violent masked vigilante Casey hones, all kinds of weird and wacky aliens, comedic time travel, a mutant gator named leatherhead, and guest star usagi yojimbo.

Mirage-A female lead who's a goofy sketch brought to life, violent masked vigilante Casey Jones, a race of alien brain like creatures, all kinds of weird and wacky aliens, comedic time travel, a mutant gator named leatherhead, and guest star Usagi Yojimbo

So as you can see, the OT concepts on paper aren't just goofy because of presentation in a terrible 30-year old comedy-based cartoon, but Fred Wolf is totally ridiculous when it's core concepts are put side by side with the much more serious Mirage comics....

....

...wait a minute...

What I find really funny about this is the FW haters inability to get all this. I mean if you're a real fan this should all be kind of obvious right?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I said in another post that David feels very attached to the show, he was the main guy behind it for nine years.

Not judging him for that (it's very understandable) but...

Originally Posted by pferreira

Considering how the network treated him I give him a brake when it comes to being a revisionist.

You can. I don't.

Anyway, Season 1's storyline has some Mirage parallels. There's a fight with a street gang, Baxter and the Mousers, the Turtles save April, and they tell her their origin story, the Foot becomes an "Army of crime" under Shredder, Splinter goes missing and the Turtles break into a high-tech alien facility to rescue him, April's apartment gets destroyed.

You can kinda see how Mirage at the time (filtered through the limitations of 80s kids shows) can get reshaped into that.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I prefer the turtles having to rescue Splinter from the bad guys instead of from the Utroms. Utroms can be introduced in other ways.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I can see that. It's not like Splinter has to be missing to give them a reason to break into TCRI, after all.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

I can see that. It's not like Splinter has to be missing to give them a reason to break into TCRI, after all.

You can have Shredder learning about the Utroms (maybe through Baxter Stockman), trying to break in to steal mutagen to mutate Bebop and Rocksteady. The turtles would then learn about it, and go after Shredder into TCRI to stop him.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

You can kinda see how Mirage at the time (filtered through the limitations of 80s kids shows) can get reshaped into that.

Oh yeah definitely. I don't think any less of the show for doing that. It worked for me.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well yeah, because it means they don't really care, they're apathetic to it.

Why?

Originally Posted by neatoman

There was no real development though, the show just kind of stopped being a comedy. It was still about fighting a series incompetent threats.

It was a change.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm not trying to rewrite history, I watched those episodes like half a year ago. It's just the same show trying to be edgier from before in a very superficial way, that's all the Red Sky episodes are.

Nope.
Calling it's the same show...is very odd choice.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Just thought of another example of FW adapting Mirage's "Early Installment Weirdness". I mentioned Casey's appearance, but it also applies to his personality.

In Casey's first appearance, he was just plain crazy, he was inspired by old cop-shows and action movies (the tragic origin about his Dad's store was a retcon that came much later) and he was ready to kill people for picking pockets and stealing hub-caps.

When he appears again (with his more iconic long hair), he's more of a classic "tough-guy" archetype, he's more "rounded" and he gets developed/deconstructed further in stories like "Shades of Grey".

FW Casey is a straight up exaggeration of his first Mirage appearance, complete with a "Clint Eastwood" voice to emphasize his action-movie obsession.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

Just thought of another example of FW adapting Mirage's "Early Installment Weirdness". I mentioned Casey's appearance, but it also applies to his personality.

In Casey's first appearance, he was just plain crazy, he was inspired by old cop-shows and action movies (the tragic origin about his Dad's store was a retcon that came much later) and he was ready to kill people for picking pockets and stealing hub-caps.

When he appears again (with his more iconic long hair), he's more of a classic "tough-guy" archetype, he's more "rounded" and he gets developed/deconstructed further in stories like "Shades of Grey".

FW Casey is a straight up exaggeration of his first Mirage appearance, complete with a "Clint Eastwood" voice to emphasize his action-movie obsession.

I agree with what you're saying but as a character in and from the comic, wouldn't Casey qualify regardless?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Yeah, I guess he would.