What does Nickelodeon not allow IDW to do?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I have to admit, I do prefer the Slash setup if only because it gave us Slash. But I think overall you have a deeper grasp on the character of April O'Neil, Ross! The whole concepts of not being able to relate to humans anymore... I also loved your writing of the O'Neil family in "Northampton."

And KLUNK!!!

Who knows, maybe someday we can see it published in a later issue of IDW TMNT...

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

thanks! yeah, that was one of the concerns, that it also involved Alopex being deceptive or whatever, despite the story around that being different. it was really similar. but basically i just wanted April and Alopex to have a sleepover. XD

oh another part i just remembered, duh, was that April could no longer relate to regular human people now that her life was all crazy with ninjas and mutants, and she stopped hanging out with her roommate Trish and her other friends. and when Alopex came along, April could relate to her because she was a mutant and she could understand April's new life. April didn't have to hide from Alopex like she has to hide from everyone else in the human world.

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

i probably shouldn't go too much into it, but whatever, haha. the story was while everyone else is out of town, April finds Alopex all beat up in an alley way, after receiving a beating from the Foot for continually failing her missions (in one version it was going to be Bebop and Rocksteady that beat her up, foreshadowing their mutation way earlier). April takes her home and nurses her back to health, and it would have introduced Klunk, too, April and Alopex were going to bond over getting him to warm up to them. then Alopex was going to prepare to kill April while she slept, but then April wakes up and confronts her, revealing that she knew Alopex was with the Foot all along, and Alopex spares her because April was the first person to ever show her any kindness. i wanted to show a strength that April had that wasn't punching or fighting like the other characters, something that got into her personality more.

anyway, that was the basic story without getting into the details. the April issue they ended up going with was great though, so it worked out. Marley Zarcone!!

[ToTheNines]

I'm glad Ross is posting in this thread because I was just gonna bring up : A turtle killed a Foot Ninja in Northampton!

We never see the deathblow, but you can see one of the assassin with their eyes x'ed out in one panel, then you only see three of them escaping with Koya.

Did this just sneak past the Nickelodeon people? Or is there a more interesting behind the scenes story?

[Leo656]

Hey Ross, just wanted to say thanks for your insight. Much appreciated.

[Joey Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I'm glad Ross is posting in this thread because I was just gonna bring up : A turtle killed a Foot Ninja in Northampton!

That's what cracks me up with the whole no killing thing. The turtles have tangled with the Foot on multiple occasions using those ninja weapons. You don't have those big battles and have them end with "and then everyone got better again" all the time. The turtles have killed in IDW whether they intend to or not, count on it.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I have to admit, I do prefer the Slash setup if only because it gave us Slash. But I think overall you have a deeper grasp on the character of April O'Neil, Ross! The whole concepts of not being able to relate to humans anymore... I also loved your writing of the O'Neil family in "Northampton."

And KLUNK!!!

Who knows, maybe someday we can see it published in a later issue of IDW TMNT...

Tom Waltz wrote Northampton, not me! although i was in charge of all the body language and facial expressions, which is just as important if i do say so myself. ;D

as i recall the final version of the micro that Bobby and i were working on did have a Slash setup but it was more like an after-credits stinger gag and he didn't show up in-panel. i can't quite remember how it went but Bobby had the idea that i think somehow Alopex knew about Slash and she told April about it but it was left a mystery what she'd told April until the very end, and the last line of the issue was April telling the Turtles and Casey "there's a fifth Turtle!" or something like that. we went through so many revisions that a lot of it is kind of jumbled in my head now, unfortunately. i still have the file somewhere, i should take a look at it.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I'm glad Ross is posting in this thread because I was just gonna bring up : A turtle killed a Foot Ninja in Northampton!

We never see the deathblow, but you can see one of the assassin with their eyes x'ed out in one panel, then you only see three of them escaping with Koya.

Did this just sneak past the Nickelodeon people? Or is there a more interesting behind the scenes story?

haha, the X eyes was just a joke i slipped in because i thought it was funny, i always put in lots of things into the artwork that weren't in the script, but as far as i'm concerned that ninja is totally dead! i actually wish i'd gone with a darker tone in the final Northampton fight and not done things like the X-ed out eyes. sometimes the scene got serious but looking back on it now there were a lot of lighter moments that i wish i'd toned down so the fight would have seemed more desperate and frantic.

anyway, i know the IDW Turtles aren't supposed to kill and there's no way my personal take on it is canon, but in my head they do, at least in the issues i've drawn. when i was doing the Leo micro i didn't draw any gushing blood but i absolutely intended for him to be killing those Foot ninjas. not only slicing them up but there are a couple panels where he throws ninjas off a building to their doom. there's no way they survived some of that stuff. in Northampton, i'll admit i didn't keep track of the number of Foot Assassins, i didn't have a set number that came along with Koya, the script never specified, but i personally intended for a bunch of them to be dead. also because i like the idea that after the fight, the Turtles had to clean up the farm and Beth O'Neil stands off to the side like O_O as she watches the Turtles get rid of all the ninja corpses, haha. April would be standing there checking her Twitter feed, totally inured to all the Foot baloney by that point. XD

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Well, the no-killing policy can be taken a bit out of context IMO. We know Leo and Raph are fighting with bladed weapons; and we know that they're fighting people trying to kill them. I don't have to see the blood or disembowelment to know that some Foot ninja are getting killed. And it stretches the mind far beyond willing suspension of disbelief to say that Leo and Raph haven't killed anyone.

But whatever keeps Nick happy, sure. <wink wink> SURE they're just knocking them out with those pointy-stabby-slicy things.

I think the only time in the IDW run so far where we needed to see an actual "on-screen" kill was Dark Leo and Victor of the Savate. But we all know that dead horse, so I'm just gonna drop my stick and walk away now.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Then in hindsight, it's a good thing you didn't go with that Slash stinger "There's a fifth Turtle!" Fanboys would have burned the forums to the ground while screaming epithets against Venus de Milo.

My favorite bit you've drawn was in Turtles in Time #1, when Raph says "Don't worry guys, I've got this" as he reaches for something to throw... and then the last we see of the Utroms, one of them is repeating the exact same mistake.

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

Tom Waltz wrote Northampton, not me! although i was in charge of all the body language and facial expressions, which is just as important if i do say so myself. ;D

as i recall the final version of the micro that Bobby and i were working on did have a Slash setup but it was more like an after-credits stinger gag and he didn't show up in-panel. i can't quite remember how it went but Bobby had the idea that i think somehow Alopex knew about Slash and she told April about it but it was left a mystery what she'd told April until the very end, and the last line of the issue was April telling the Turtles and Casey "there's a fifth Turtle!" or something like that. we went through so many revisions that a lot of it is kind of jumbled in my head now, unfortunately. i still have the file somewhere, i should take a look at it.

[Rooish]

Ross, I like your April-Alopex idea. You really like the female bonding don't you? I've seen your Deviantart! I feel that your story would have helped make April a little less bland than she is in IDW.

Now as for whether the Turtles have killed anyone in IDW: so, what you're all saying is they've totally killed people? Don't get me wrong, I'd be okay with this, but it does not fit into what has been discussed ad nauseum in the actual pages of the comic. Splinter has a no kill rule. Leo explicitly never killed anyone, even Koya. It just contradicts the words that are spoken in the story!

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Ross, I like your April-Alopex idea. You really like the female bonding don't you? I've seen your Deviantart! I feel that your story would have helped make April a little less bland than she is in IDW.

Now as for whether the Turtles have killed anyone in IDW: so, what you're all saying is they've totally killed people? Don't get me wrong, I'd be okay with this, but it does not fit into what has been discussed ad nauseum in the actual pages of the comic. Splinter has a no kill rule. Leo explicitly never killed anyone, even Koya. It just contradicts the words that are spoken in the story!

yeah, like i said it's not canon, it doesn't actually work, that's just what i'm thinking when i'm drawing that stuff! i'd never expect Bobby and Tom to make it canon. i guess i feel like it's different when it's just faceless goons being killed, i don't know. XD maybe i'm splitting hairs.

although, when i was drawing the scene with Leo and Koya, to me it's not about killing. it's not about whether Leo will kill her, and in my mind Dark Leo was never about killing or not killing, it's about Leo being able to choose his own actions, whether it's kill or not kill. so that Koya sequence where Leo has his sword up, for me it's not about whether he'll kill her or not, it's about whether he's able to choose for himself what he wants to do. even when he was Dark Leo, he wanted to kill but Shredder always stopped him, even then he was never in control of his own choices. him not killing Koya is him choosing for himself.

and again maybe i'm splitting hairs and way overthinking things, haha. XD

[spookycookies]

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

yeah, like i said it's not canon, it doesn't actually work, that's just what i'm thinking when i'm drawing that stuff! i'd never expect Bobby and Tom to make it canon. i guess i feel like it's different when it's just faceless goons being killed, i don't know. XD maybe i'm splitting hairs.

although, when i was drawing the scene with Leo and Koya, to me it's not about killing. it's not about whether Leo will kill her, and in my mind Dark Leo was never about killing or not killing, it's about Leo being able to choose his own actions, whether it's kill or not kill. so that Koya sequence where Leo has his sword up, for me it's not about whether he'll kill her or not, it's about whether he's able to choose for himself what he wants to do. even when he was Dark Leo, he wanted to kill but Shredder always stopped him, even then he was never in control of his own choices. him not killing Koya is him choosing for himself.

and again maybe i'm splitting hairs and way overthinking things, haha. XD

Good point Ross, I don't think the Dark Leo thing was about him becoming a killing machine or losing his soul to the foot in a moral way, but about choice. The 2 page spread you did for CityFall actually says so much about Leo's character up until then, being the leader among his brothers (but not his family,) Leonardo is obligated to follow and enforce Splinter's wishes despite his own feelings. At the end of Northampton I felt that the resolution wasn't that Leo was no longer a tool for evil but that he had finally found his own identity and independence. Leonardo post Northampton is much more decisive and vocal about his feelings especially now that they are aligning less with Splinter. To sum it up, CityFall & Northampton wasn't so much about "Will Leonardo kill or not?" but "Who is Leonardo?" (In the context of family, as a leader etc.)

It was very interesting to hear about your April Micro pitch. I am eagerly awaiting Klunk's debut in the IDW universe and I think you had some great idea's about April not fitting in with regular college culture after meeting the turtles. I know I only have your comments about it to work with but from what you summarized it seemed like the book lacked any sort of big action? There really is room in IDW TMNT for quieter more personal stories but maybe not at the top of year 2? Either way thanks for sharing I really enjoy glimpsing behind the curtain when it comes to this book.

[pennydreadful]

Hi Ross - great to see you back on the forums!

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences - it's really cool to hear about your thoughts and such during your time on the comic.

(Looking forward to Jem coming out too - you're an amazing artist. Hope all's well in your corner of the world!)

[neatoman]

There is one thing I do wonder about wheter or not it was some kind of editorial demand. When the Purple Dragons are first introduced they're Angel's neighbourhood watch, but as the series progresses the Dragons become more like the version of them from the 2003 cartoon (a decent amount of members, Hun's leadership, the connection to the Foot, hell Dragonface is actually depicted on a cover!) which is arguably the most recognisable version of the Purple Dragons. I also think this might be the reason Hun will be added to the Nickelodeon cartoon soon, to make the Dragons seem more recognisable.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by spookycookies

It was very interesting to hear about your April Micro pitch. I am eagerly awaiting Klunk's debut in the IDW universe and I think you had some great idea's about April not fitting in with regular college culture after meeting the turtles. I know I only have your comments about it to work with but from what you summarized it seemed like the book lacked any sort of big action? There really is room in IDW TMNT for quieter more personal stories but maybe not at the top of year 2? Either way thanks for sharing I really enjoy glimpsing behind the curtain when it comes to this book.

you're right, that was another obstacle, the lack of action. you're also right that it being early on in the series with an action-less issue was a concern. that was part of the reason we added in the suspense between April and Alopex, to give it some tension. that was really frustrating for me, i agree that IDW TMNT has room for quiet more lowkey stories, not every issue has to have fighting or a big plot or intrigue or whatever, especially focusing on a character like April.

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

Hi Ross - great to see you back on the forums!

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences - it's really cool to hear about your thoughts and such during your time on the comic.

(Looking forward to Jem coming out too - you're an amazing artist. Hope all's well in your corner of the world!)

thanks so much!! i'm glad you enjoyed what i had to say. i hope you enjoy Jem, too! i'm excited about it.

[ProphetofGanja]

Originally Posted by Redrumh2o

Nickelodeon says NO to many covers and requests changes. I have seen some from Lavigne and Lawson for the TPB that have been rejected, Petersen told me that Nickelodeon made him change a few covers (and the whole process turned him off from potentially doing a full issue), and I own the rejected Chris Allen cover from the 30th anniversary book because it didn't have enough "shenanigans" going on

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...psctlbfy7p.jpg

https://multiversitystatic.s3.amazon...E_HotTopic.jpg

there is like 1000x more shenanigans on that second cover

[TigerClaw]

Funny how Ninjara is on the 30th anniversary cover, Yet she's nowhere near in the comic itself, Perhaps someday she will appear, But she will have some competition with Alopex.

Though it would've been nice if you included Mona Lisa in the cover as well.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Funny how Ninjara is on the 30th anniversary cover, Yet she's nowhere near in the comic itself, Perhaps someday she will appear, But she will have some competition with Alopex.

Though it would've been nice if you included Mona Lisa in the cover as well.

Do you mean that she's not in the IDW series? Because she was in the 30th anniversary issue.

I'm assuming you're talking about the latter, in which case I think there's a reason Alopex simply isn't just Ninjara.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Funny how Ninjara is on the 30th anniversary cover, Yet she's nowhere near in the comic itself, Perhaps someday she will appear...

Except... she totally is!
http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2014/...r-plastic.html

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Do you mean that she's not in the IDW series? Because she was in the 30th anniversary issue.

I'm assuming you're talking about the latter, in which case I think there's a reason Alopex simply isn't just Ninjara.

I'm talking about the idw tmnt universe itself, That story took place in the Archie Comic universe.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I'm talking about the idw tmnt universe itself.

It's not that strange really, we don't have every important character from TMNT history in the IDW comic, it does not have to. The FW cartoon ignored most characters from Mirage (I think Baxter, Rat King, Casey and Leatherhead were the only ones taken from the comic aside from the main cast), the 4Kids series ignored the FW characters (for a very good reason) and the Nickelodeon cartoon pick and choose like crazy. I don't see why Ninjara would need to be in the IDW series.

Although it is a little odd that IDW does have a female ninja fox, who is not the same female ninja fox as the one in the most mainstream TMNT comic produced before IDW's run.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

It's not that strange really, we don't have every important character from TMNT history in the IDW comic, it does not have to. The FW cartoon ignored most characters from Mirage (I think Baxter, Rat King, Casey and Leatherhead were the only ones taken from the comic aside from the main cast), the 4Kids series ignored the FW characters (for a very good reason) and the Nickelodeon cartoon pick and choose like crazy. I don't see why Ninjara would need to be in the IDW series.

Although it is a little odd that IDW does have a female ninja fox, who is not the same female ninja fox as the one in the most mainstream TMNT comic produced before IDW's run.

Which is interesting cause IDW has a mutant name Bludgeon, Whose a Hammerhead Shark, and the Archie Comic had Armaggon.